Malyla's Account Talk

[malyla]

Don't most people outgrow the liberal mentality when they reach their thirties. A liberal sees a hungry man, they give him a fish to eat and lecture, that was the compassionate thing to do. A conservative sees the same hungry man and teaches him how to fish. Liberals want to tear people down. Conservatives want people to achieve and excel.

That is a very limited and ignorant view of liberal and conservative mentalities. Every citizen will have leanings in one direction or another on various subjects at various times in their lives. You may be liberal with sex, food, and education, but conservative with finances, war, and health. Another citizen may be the exact opposite in the definitions of what it is to be liberal and conservative for these same issues. And years later, some of those liberal leanings may move to conservative leanings, while some of those conservative leanings may move to liberal leaning. It all hinges on your individual definition of the ideals of liberalism and conservatism and your life experiences.

I am a problem solver. I have rarely believed that charity will fix a problem although I have benefited from some charity when I was a struggling student and it did help me at that time. I usually ask why that person is hungry before I consider helping. Asking why, allows me to step into that persons shoes and see them for who they are. Only then, do I decide if my intervention will help the situation, both theirs and mine. I also believe in accountability and long term goals. People should be held accountable for their actions and the consequences of those actions. Does anyone believe that the people who allowed the credit crisis and the bailouts to benefit a few at the expense of the many are being held accountable and responsible for their actions?

I have heard definitions such as "Conservatives do not trust people to govern themselves" hence we get the Patriot act and Big government (Homeland Security was the biggest expansion of government since the New Deal) while "Liberals think everyone should be treated the same regardless of achievement" with the citing of welfare, affirmative action, and health care as liberal agenda items. Right now we are still dealing with the Orwellian double speak that placed opposing labels on laws and ideals and continued to obscure the limits and extent of all these conservative and liberal issues. I find the best way to weed through this miasma of spin and disinformation is to ask WHY.

Why are people protesting? Why are news organizations not covering it? Why is the economy still heading down even after we gave Trillions to the banks to simulate our economy? Why are people losing their homes after taking a loan product that was widely advertised as wonderful but a killer in an economic downturn? Why is there no jobs in America? Why are >50% of Americans at or below the poverty line? Why is everything we buy 'Made in China'? Why are certain groups attacking welfare and healthcare?

Here is another definition of the conservative and liberal mind from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_conservative_and_liberal_brain

"As a result of these structural differences, liberals may be more efficient at managing conflicting information, while conservatives may be more efficient at recognizing threats.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP]" You should also click on the conservative and liberal links to get another, wider definition of those two words.

Is asking why and shifting through all the conflicting information to find the root cause of a problem a liberal or conservative action? None of this is simple and using such a simplistic example for who is a liberal/conservative as that homily above does all of us a disservice as it does not fully show the richness that those definitions encompass. Asking WHY and even WHO benefits from the destruction of social safety nets and HOW this destruction will benefit us, our children and their children takes more work to fully understand the problem, but it leads to an understanding that allows cold truth to dictate the outcome and not the lukewarm superficial labels of 'conservative/liberal agenda'.

 

[MrBowl]

There's a bit of debate out there about whether the protesters are just your typical "youngsters filled with angst" that don't like or aren't inclined to play the "game of life" as we live it here in the U.S. or whether they are a significant movement. What little coverage I've seen of them puts them in the former slot. They are presented as being no different than a weekly Berkely rally to save a tree that the university wants to cut down to widen a road. and therefore just a bunch of radical fringe anti-capitalists that travel the country protesting this and that. I've heard that their behind the scenes support comes from the typical sources - activist groups including Soros (who ironicly made his billions from currency trading).

That being said, their message, although not very clear or organized, does shed light on the huge wound that has opened up with the current recession/depression that we've been in since late 2007. That is that the gap between the upper and lower economic classes is widening, and lots of people in the middle class are dropping and not rising up. There are many complex reasons for this, from both left-leaning programs and right-leaning programs, and in order to solve and reverse this problem the causes must first be identified. I don't get the feeling that foolish young people demanding that the "Haves" share with the "Have Nots" get it, or could ever solve these problems. I also think that the great majority of our elected officials are just as incapable and unwilling. And, of course, don't go to Wall Street or corporate leaders either if you want solutions. It's a worrisome situation and I believe tougher times are ahead as long as our pliticians remain in permanent campaign mode.

To me, the most important thing that I take away from these protests are that citizens are very frustrated, angry, and losing hope in their future and in the system. I watch the news carefully and I see more eruptions of anger and limited tolerance increasing in frequency. Nearly 1 in 5 people that want to work are either under-employed or unemployed, and I hate to think what they resort to when benefits are cut off. Consumers aren't spending and jobs will not be created as quickly as needed. Globalization will continue to drag 1st world nations lower as 3rd world nations rise up, lowering the standard of living of most Americans. Carry this out as far as you want to...

Early in the summer a fellow on here named Country Boy lamented about dark predictions and "when this all comes to a head" stuff. At the time I thought that the many problems we face may come to a head at different times and would be handled step by step, but the seemingly unsolvable problems with Europe debt, and even our's and Japan's debt + others', and what seems to be an imminent global recession should scare everyone. He may be right afterall.

Hang on tight. If things do come to a head the fringe career-student scene/message will be overshadowed.

 

[Khotso]

The media continue to either ignore "Occupy Wall Street" or criticize it as being a bunch of protest-happy youth who are aimless, leaderless and lacking concrete objectives. WTF? Can't they see that this is just the start of something that will likely be very huge in the end? I think these folks are asking all of the questions in David Brin's article (link in Malyla's post above), including the one's below:

– or ask what it means when Fox says the top families do pay a lot of money in taxes, despite paying at very low rates. Can you do the simple algebra in your head, divide and put in an equal sign and draw the obvious conclusion? If they pay vast amounts, even at tiny rates… doesn’t that mean they are getting most of the money in the first place? And that’s supposedly a reason for you to… shrug?


– or ask who is financing the propaganda that you watch? When simplistic tag lines are ordered up at Fox News by Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes and Prince Waleed, and they are parroted within hours by every politician and talking head on the right, is it time to ask “is this the “conservatism of Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley, any longer?” What do these New Lords get out of teaching you to hate every American elite of science, intellect or skill… while demanding that you ignore the one elite that threatens everything we love? Theirs?


– for the first time in American history, we went to war and the rich refused to help pay for it. Isn’t patriotism an issue all the time, and not just when you (or Glenn Beck) pick or choose?

More important: doesn’t this start sounding a whole lot like what the nobles did on the east side of the Atlantic in 1789… and not at all like the smarter elites did in the west?


– is history really so boring to you that you find it completely irrelevant? So much so that you’ll ignore the patterns of 6,000 years? If so, wow, FDR sure did make a different world that Baby Boomers ignorantly take for granted.


But the Gen-Xers and Gen-Y and Millennials won’t. As I foresaw in EARTH, they are waking up. So don’t fret, Boomers. Your children will rescue America. Not with violent class war… what are we, French? But with the kind of tweaking we saw from Washington and Lincoln and Carnegie and Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. The kind that restores that flattened diamond… while continuing the miracle of competitive markets and freedom.

 

[Bquat]

That is a very limited and ignorant view of liberal and conservative mentalities. Every citizen will have leanings in one direction or another on various subjects at various times in their lives. You may be liberal with sex, food, and education, but conservative with finances, war, and health. Another citizen may be the exact opposite in the definitions of what it is to be liberal and conservative for these same issues. And years later, some of those liberal leanings may move to conservative leanings, while some of those conservative leanings may move to liberal leaning. It all hinges on your individual definition of the ideals of liberalism and conservatism and your life experiences.

I am a problem solver. I have rarely believed that charity will fix a problem although I have benefited from some charity when I was a struggling student and it did help me at that time. I usually ask why that person is hungry before I consider helping. Asking why, allows me to step into that persons shoes and see them for who they are. Only then, do I decide if my intervention will help the situation, both theirs and mine. I also believe in accountability and long term goals. People should be held accountable for their actions and the consequences of those actions. Does anyone believe that the people who allowed the credit crisis and the bailouts to benefit a few at the expense of the many are being held accountable and responsible for their actions?

I have heard definitions such as "Conservatives do not trust people to govern themselves" hence we get the Patriot act and Big government (Homeland Security was the biggest expansion of government since the New Deal) while "Liberals think everyone should be treated the same regardless of achievement" with the citing of welfare, affirmative action, and health care as liberal agenda items. Right now we are still dealing with the Orwellian double speak that placed opposing labels on laws and ideals and continued to obscure the limits and extent of all these conservative and liberal issues. I find the best way to weed through this miasma of spin and disinformation is to ask WHY.

Why are people protesting? Why are news organizations not covering it? Why is the economy still heading down even after we gave Trillions to the banks to simulate our economy? Why are people losing their homes after taking a loan product that was widely advertised as wonderful but a killer in an economic downturn? Why is there no jobs in America? Why are >50% of Americans at or below the poverty line? Why is everything we buy 'Made in China'? Why are certain groups attacking welfare and healthcare?

Here is another definition of the conservative and liberal mind from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_conservative_and_liberal_brain

"As a result of these structural differences, liberals may be more efficient at managing conflicting information, while conservatives may be more efficient at recognizing threats.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP]" You should also click on the conservative and liberal links to get another, wider definition of those two words.

Is asking why and shifting through all the conflicting information to find the root cause of a problem a liberal or conservative action? None of this is simple and using such a simplistic example for who is a liberal/conservative as that homily above does all of us a disservice as it does not fully show the richness that those definitions encompass. Asking WHY and even WHO benefits from the destruction of social safety nets and HOW this destruction will benefit us, our children and their children takes more work to fully understand the problem, but it leads to an understanding that allows cold truth to dictate the outcome and not the lukewarm superficial labels of 'conservative/liberal agenda'.

You know Malyla, You are very intellegent and are very articulant in getting your point across. Even though I disagree with a lot of it, I enjoy how you argue your side. I really think your talent is extremly wasted here and feel you should become a columnist for a newspaper after retirement, that could really use your talent. The reading base here is somewhat already set in their ways because this is mostly a site for retirement. I do think you inspire a lot of new members to start accounts so they can post and try to match wits with you. You make me miss the time I was in school and had a friend that could win every arguement. I would take the contraryin side just to banter and enjoy her virbal skills. If I hadn't joined the army in the 70's I would still have the conversation skills that weren't used in the army. A lot of times the arguement itself is all the enjoyment. Some love to argue, the intermingling of words and thoughts. Well I agree to disagree an please excuse my spelling.

I agree with your movement to F.

 

[tsptalk]

You know Malyla, You are very intellegent and are very articulant in getting your point across. Even though I disagree with a lot of it, I enjoy how you argue your side.

If everyone discussed politics as gracefully as Malyla, we wouldn't have had to create beltwaytalk.com.

I really think your talent is extremly wasted here and feel you should become a columnist for a newspaper after retirement, that could really use your talent.

Before you talk her into leaving, we can always use another good blogger here.

 

[malyla]

You know Malyla, You are very intellegent and are very articulant in getting your point across. Even though I disagree with a lot of it, I enjoy how you argue your side. I really think your talent is extremly wasted here and feel you should become a columnist for a newspaper after retirement, that could really use your talent. The reading base here is somewhat already set in their ways because this is mostly a site for retirement. I do think you inspire a lot of new members to start accounts so they can post and try to match wits with you. You make me miss the time I was in school and had a friend that could win every arguement. I would take the contraryin side just to banter and enjoy her virbal skills. If I hadn't joined the army in the 70's I would still have the conversation skills that weren't used in the army. A lot of times the arguement itself is all the enjoyment. Some love to argue, the intermingling of words and thoughts. Well I agree to disagree an please excuse my spelling.

I agree with your movement to F.

So you're saying I'm too smart to 'play' with everyone here? :worried:I should take my 'ball' and go find smarter people to hang out with (say it aint so)? I'll be retired soon and do use this site for that purpose, but when others take it on themselves to comment incorrectly, mindlessly, and lazily about issues on this retirement message board, I will state my opinion and why I disagree or agree. I like to keep the 'game' fair and clean and abandoning the 'field' to the bullies will not allow for that. For all the others who are not set in their ways, I hope providing a counter argument may lead to better citizenship. There are so many smart people here and I look forward every day to reading what they say.

In what way do you agree to disagree? Or are you just taking the contrarian viewpoint on everything that is stated here? It does worry me that you blame the army for the loss of your vocabulary and spelling skills as I would hope that personal intelligence/skills are not a casualty of service to this great country. It seems counter intuitive to serve your country to maintain your freedoms and liberties but to lose the skills to understand what and where those freedoms and liberties are/came from (I am truly tough in cheek here just as I expect your statement was the same )

I must admit that this was the nicest way I have ever been told that I'm wasting my time on stating the facts on issues here on this message board (not that I agree in the least). My goal is to never let the bullies win. I will always speak out against injustice and misinformation not because I may be smart, but for one reason only.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came

​

Being silent is not only deadly, but is an implied agreement in this day of bipartisan rhetoric where "You are either with us or against us" has become the norm. Where I understand the frustration of the Tea Partiers, I can not condone the lazy and destructive rhetoric that will cause more damage than good to the citizens of this country. So I speak out and will continue to do so as long as profits and greed are the motivations for the destructive changes being put forward. I may be shouting in the forest, but it keeps me sane.

 

[malyla]

If everyone discussed politics as gracefully as Malyla, we wouldn't have had to create beltwaytalk.com.


Before you talk her into leaving, we can always use another good blogger here.

Thanks Tom. I have flirted with asking you, but I need to be retired before I can devote time to any blog. And I still have a lot to learn from the people here about the markets and retirement before I can intelligently comment on those subjects. I'm still a Journeyman and have some ways to go before I become a Master in these subjects.

I will take this opportunity to once again express my gratitude to you for starting and maintaining this website. Without the wealth of knowledge you have gathered here, I would be clueless about how to control my retirement finances. As of now, I have a clear goal and process for achieving that goal that will allow me to meet the comfortable retirement level that, in my ignorance, I expected from a Buy&Hold strategy recommended when I signed up in the 1990s. Knowledge is power. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.

 

[KevinD]

That is a very limited and ignorant view of liberal and conservative mentalities.

IMO, many people just parrot what they've heard without giving it much thought. Once they have jumped on a particular bandwagon it's hard to jump off...

 

[burrocrat]

Once they have jumped on a particular bandwagon it's hard to jump off...

But it's easy to fall off, I do it all the time.

 

[Bquat]

No I wasn't quite saying you were to smart to fight your fight here. I was really trying to say that I respect you and thought you was worthy of greater things. I am glad you are the defender of truth and protrayer of facts. Matter of fact I do beleave a lot of what you put out and you are right! I was being contrary just to be contrary.

I wasn't blaming the army for my poor spelling, that comes naturally. I was kind of saying that when in school, I was a very opinionated and quick to say what I thought. I would also try to speak up for others. Well these traits didn't survive in my early career in the army. I'm a quieter person.

Here's some of my opinions just so I'm not just a fly-by.

I think Obama got elected not just for being a Democrat. People believed that he was a well educated outsider which couldn't be influenced and could change the status-que. Since there became no changes occuring the tea party became stronger.

Even though I lean toward being a Republican, neither party has my vote. I'm in favor of voting anyone in congress that has more than two terms out. There is no more a two party system. It's a money system now that only purpost is getting the money to stay in to reap the rewards of office. Have you noticed in the two year elections the vote has been switching between parties. The party leaders will tell you that the people have voted for what our party policy is and were determed to follow what they voted for. They won't look at the big picture: they're switching parties to vote old blood out and new blood in.

The news won't cover the Wallstreet riots because it would embarress Obama and they want him to stay in office. IMHO, I think the press is bias.

I think the tea party is just backing Republicans this time around because the Democrates were in charge and didn't use their power for the people. They will be with The Democrats next time untill they can get enought new people in the government to get back to the people interest instead of lobbiest's money. I do think many of them are too radical, but it is their belief that they are right.

Ok thanks for reading this. I beleave the market will go down soon and here's my simple chart. I think we have broken out of the bottom of the triangle and with the forth test of the 1120 we'll break it. Just my opinion.

 

[malyla]

Thanks Bquat. Another good weekend of interesting discussions.

On the market, I'm still waiting for 520ish on the EMW before I go back into stocks. There is resistance to that happening, but the TA is still pointing to EMW at 510-540. Patience....

 

[clester]

IMO, many people just parrot what they've heard without giving it much thought. Once they have jumped on a particular bandwagon it's hard to jump off...

Amen to that! They parrot their party line. That's why it's important to be an indendent. That way you can look at things for yourself.

 

[alevin]

Amen to that! They parrot their party line. That's why it's important to be an indendent. That way you can look at things for yourself.

Indeed. Morning Malyla. Your thread is thriving, good job. On subject of wages and jobs, KD has done a pretty good analysis of the detrimental effects of global wage arbitration vs. the price we pay for imported finished goods, and what its done to employment and purchasing power in this country. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195292 Just one facet of complex situation dear leaders don't get.

 

[SteelSaving]

The media continue to either ignore "Occupy Wall Street" or criticize it as being a bunch of protest-happy youth who are aimless, leaderless and lacking concrete objectives. WTF? Can't they see that this is just the start of something that will likely be very huge in the end? I think these folks are asking all of the questions in David Brin's article (link in Malyla's post above), including the one's below:

– or ask what it means when Fox says the top families do pay a lot of money in taxes, despite paying at very low rates. Can you do the simple algebra in your head, divide and put in an equal sign and draw the obvious conclusion? If they pay vast amounts, even at tiny rates… doesn’t that mean they are getting most of the money in the first place? And that’s supposedly a reason for you to… shrug?


– or ask who is financing the propaganda that you watch? When simplistic tag lines are ordered up at Fox News by Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes and Prince Waleed, and they are parroted within hours by every politician and talking head on the right, is it time to ask “is this the “conservatism of Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley, any longer?” What do these New Lords get out of teaching you to hate every American elite of science, intellect or skill… while demanding that you ignore the one elite that threatens everything we love? Theirs?


– for the first time in American history, we went to war and the rich refused to help pay for it. Isn’t patriotism an issue all the time, and not just when you (or Glenn Beck) pick or choose?

More important: doesn’t this start sounding a whole lot like what the nobles did on the east side of the Atlantic in 1789… and not at all like the smarter elites did in the west?


– is history really so boring to you that you find it completely irrelevant? So much so that you’ll ignore the patterns of 6,000 years? If so, wow, FDR sure did make a different world that Baby Boomers ignorantly take for granted.


But the Gen-Xers and Gen-Y and Millennials won’t. As I foresaw in EARTH, they are waking up. So don’t fret, Boomers. Your children will rescue America. Not with violent class war… what are we, French? But with the kind of tweaking we saw from Washington and Lincoln and Carnegie and Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. The kind that restores that flattened diamond… while continuing the miracle of competitive markets and freedom.

Although I agree with the last few points you typed out from Brin, I still find it hard to back a person who singles out Fox News as THE issue with the news that comes into our homes. These days, we easily get 100's of channels streaming in, yet the intelligent ones of our society seem to turn away from television more and more (a good bill to no longer have to pay). It isn't just Fox passing along these talking points. The left has their share of puppet masters as well.
I do hope my generation can fix this mess without violence, it is actually something I believe must happen. But the way we are desensitizing ourselves, I can't be too sure.

 

[malyla]

Although I agree with the last few points you typed out from Brin, I still find it hard to back a person who singles out Fox News as THE issue with the news that comes into our homes. These days, we easily get 100's of channels streaming in, yet the intelligent ones of our society seem to turn away from television more and more (a good bill to no longer have to pay). It isn't just Fox passing along these talking points. The left has their share of puppet masters as well.
I do hope my generation can fix this mess without violence, it is actually something I believe must happen. But the way we are desensitizing ourselves, I can't be too sure.

Can you be more specific on who the puppet masters of the left are on television?

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

Can you be more specific on who the puppet masters of the left are on television?

Um, I named a few here:
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?4422-Malyla-s-Account-Talk&p=332413#post332413

 

[malyla]

Um, I named a few here:
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?4422-Malyla-s-Account-Talk&p=332413#post332413

Do these three voices have a TV show or a channel that hosts them every day/week? I have never seen them speaking on TV and would not know where to find them. Any help?

 

[Aireman]

I only know Ed Schultz is on MSNBC. The others???? Don't know. Ron might be on the radio. None of them has even a percentage of the market.

 

[SteelSaving]

Do these three voices have a TV show or a channel that hosts them every day/week? I have never seen them speaking on TV and would not know where to find them. Any help?

Does Murdoch, Waleed, or Aires have a TV channel that hosts them every day/week? I understand they own it, they control it. Are you looking for who funds it or who presents it?
In terms of presenting, spend a day watching MSNBC or CNN. Every host brings up the same issue, uses almost the same language verbatim.
Look at all the pressure building up behind Christie for God's sake. How many times does the man have to say he is not interested?
The entire coverage of the GOP field is pathetic. The press continues to try and find a "sexy" candidate to bring in because, by their superficial standards, the current field is boring and all the same. They have tried to make it a two man race the entire way, basically ignoring everybody else. First it was Mitt v. Bachman. Once she was torn apart, they needed someone else. Enter Perry. Now his star is fading fast so it's time for Christie to step up to the plate.
Pawlenty bowed out of the race because of a straw poll. He got 3rd and still dropped out. Nobody would cover him.
And speaking of straw polls... Iowa is important for whatever reason. Then nothing for a while. Now all of a sudden Florida's is important. Why? Because Cain needs to be the next #2 guy behind Romney should Christie not run. I can tell you there were plenty of straw polls happening this year, many of them won by a blacklisted candidate.

With all that said, I am not placing my support behind any of those candidates as of now. What ticks me off is that nobody covers issues. It is all superficial nonsense.

As for Murdoch being conservative. I think he gave quite a bit of money to Obama. Along with a bunch of those fat cats on Wall Street. Obama is as much a corporate shill as GW was.

 

[KevinD]

Obama is as much a corporate shill as GW was.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!