Malyla's Account Talk

"fair share" is one of the most frustrating terms I hear these days. Everybody uses it, nobody defines it. That's because it means something different to each and every one of us.

If you want the government to take more money from high income people, as Warren Buffet is begging for, then you'd have to eliminate charitable deductions, and raise the long term capital gains tax to the point where it's just grouped in with the income tax rate. By only raising the upper bracket a few points the President has done something mostly symbolic with little effect, but it should make the "fair share" crowd happy because most of them haven't done the math.
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

You know better nnuut:cheesy:. The government paid for those trucks and gas with tax payer money to perform this work in building the infrastructure. It was only since the 1990s that this work was contracted out so that the government was just leasing/contracting with the construction companies to perform the infrastructure work still paid for with tax payer money. No matter how you spin it, the infrastructure of this country that supports the factory was paid for by government (i.e. tax payers) money including the fire fighting and police protection. Even the utilities were subsidized by the governments (and therefore the tax payers). I'm fine with another opinion, but rush is neither credible nor nice. He is about inflammatory rhetoric and spin.
If the factory builder had to also build the roads, run the utility lines/pipes, build the trucks, and train all his uneducated workers to do their job effectively, then I would say they have the right to not pay taxes as their expenses for making and selling their product was 100% financed by themselves, but that not true, is it? Yes the factory paid taxes, but with tax breaks provided by governments to lure that factory into the area and the other tax breaks given by Bush to that top 10% of the riches Americans, these factory builders pay much less than their factory workers who have less disposable income after taxes. Just what is wrong with paying your fair share for using systems that are in place because tax payers allowed for that system to be built?

Warren Buffet is taxed on his capital gains at a rate of 15%. I am taxed on my income at a rate of 25%. Sounds unfair, right? Which would you rather have: 15% of $1,000,000 or 25% of $100,000? Considering 15% of $1,000,000 is fifty percent more than $100,000; I would choose the lower tax rate of the higher income.

If you really want everyone to "pay their fair share" then you should insist that EVERYONE pays the same tax rate regardless of their level of income. Rich people aren't the only ones who use the infrastructure. Even people who currently pay no taxes use the infrastructure. Maybe it's time for those freeloaders to pay their fair share!
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

You know better nnuut:cheesy:. The government paid for those trucks and gas with tax payer money to perform this work in building the infrastructure. It was only since the 1990s that this work was contracted out so that the government was just leasing/contracting with the construction companies to perform the infrastructure work still paid for with tax payer money. No matter how you spin it, the infrastructure of this country that supports the factory was paid for by government (i.e. tax payers) money including the fire fighting and police protection. Even the utilities were subsidized by the governments (and therefore the tax payers). I'm fine with another opinion, but rush is neither credible nor nice. He is about inflammatory rhetoric and spin.
If the factory builder had to also build the roads, run the utility lines/pipes, build the trucks, and train all his uneducated workers to do their job effectively, then I would say they have the right to not pay taxes as their expenses for making and selling their product was 100% financed by themselves, but that not true, is it? Yes the factory paid taxes, but with tax breaks provided by governments to lure that factory into the area and the other tax breaks given by Bush to that top 10% of the riches Americans, these factory builders pay much less than their factory workers who have less disposable income after taxes. Just what is wrong with paying your fair share for using systems that are in place because tax payers allowed for that system to be built?
The employees, manfacturers, suppliers and retailers paid for all of that stuff and still do the government uses and wastes our money get it straight Uncle Sam didn't pay for anything Business did. AND I've already paid my fair share it's about time for them [the 51%]to pay theirs.
 
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Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

The Gap Between Rich and Poor Explained in 3 Minutes

The gap between rich and poor is the widest it’s ever been in history. And it keeps on getting wider.

Plato is purported to have said that, ideally, the person at the top of an organization should earn 6 times more than the person at the bottom. J.P. Morgan said it should be 20 times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx16a72j__8&feature=player_embedded
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero


Thanks FWM, Khotso and KevinD. The truth is out there but the spin is working hard to confuse the issue. In a time of recession and >51% poverty rates, the spin is being shut down little by little as we struggle to pay our bills but watch the corporations and CEOs/brokers make record profits while wining about paying more than 35% taxes on the profits they made jacking up the prices of gas or whatever else the consumers purchased. The system is broken and will fail if action is not taken. I hope the millionaire tax gets passed. It will encourage the rich to reinvest in the system and help this economy that they are currently just skimming the cream off the top of. Thanks everyone for contributing to the discussion.

http://www.businessinsider.com/millionaires-tax-2011-9

nnuut - How do you expect the poor who make less than $22k for a family of four to pay? They already pay payroll, FICA, and SS taxes if they are employed and maybe health insurance as well. Wages needs to increase before taxes from these >51% can pay more. Since corporations are profit crazy and since the government has allowed the tax breaks and interstate commerce laws that have shipped a lot of our jobs over seas, the average worker is suffering in their choices of higher paying jobs. I do not believe that these >51% of Americans are lazy. But I do see the discouragement that the spin doctors are perpetrating when they call the poor lazy and portray them as Section 8 deadbeats. Why keep looking when employers and media pundits tell you that you are obsolete due to being out of a job for 6 months due to layoffs and personnel reductions in the worst recession ever experienced? How does discouraging our poor to continue to strive for middle class status profit America? Who profits from the destruction of the middle class and the widening wealth gap? As sure as fish swim and birds fly, someone is profiting and feeding the spin machines to keep it that way.

America is the greatest country in the world when we use and encourage our best resource, citizens, to strive for self improvement. Lets get great again.
 
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Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

The main problem is that the Government is using the Tax System to distribute monetary assistance [Charity] to whomever THEY think needs it, this is definitely against the US Constitution and needs to be stopped.
The tax base should be widened to include those that should be paying income tax and are not, who are they, where should the cutoff be are the big questions. By widening the tax base the folks that are paying the majority of the taxes in the USA can get a break, they have been carrying the entire load for way too long, the middle class is on it's way out and that is directly due to government regulation and higher taxes on the people in this country that were successful in their lives and now are being punished for their efforts. I've been up and down the wage scale during my life and always had to pay something. Now over 50% of the country pays NOTHING, that is spreading wealth to an extreme. We all want to help the needy, but the system is being abused in so many ways now that it is a big part of our dire monetary situation, the corruption is so bad there may be no way of stopping it without just starting over again with a new one, let's not be stupid.
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96623,00.htmlhe
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

The main problem is that the Government is using the Tax System to distribute monetary assistance [Charity] to whomever THEY think needs it, this is definitely against the US Constitution and needs to be stopped. Now over 50% of the country pays NOTHING,
I have two problems with the above quote..... The THEY part for one. It wasn't a single event that decided to give "Charity" to the less fortunate. It was an evolution of events and the actions of many people within the gov that we elected to office. So, IMO the "they" you refer to is really the best of "US"!
Second, the continued assertions that 50% pay nothing. That is such a uninformed, miss directed and false statement. Even the homeless pay taxes on every almost every purchase. And working people pay SS, State tax and Medicare.
BTW, what interpolation of the Constitution do you assert that we can't provide for the public welfare?
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

... Now over 50% of the country pays NOTHING, that is spreading wealth to an extreme. We all want to help the needy, but the system is being abused in so many ways now that it is a big part of our dire monetary situation, the corruption is so bad there may be no way of stopping it without just starting over again with a new one, let's not be stupid.

I don't know about over 50% -- seems a stretch, but I'll give you that. "Corruption" though -- wow! All those damn poor people are stealing my/our hard earned money through nefarious means!!?? Geesh! Granted, the system isn't perfect, so why don't we just fix what's broken then. Oh, that's right, the government screws everything up so that can't work can it? It strikes me as ironic that probably close to everyone involved with this site makes or made their living serving in "the government." All we need to fix it is rational, fair-minded, thoughtful people in Congress, people who can work together to focus on and find real solutions to tangible problems as opposed to ideologues. Fat chance, huh? Now, there's corruption we should all be concerned about.

Rodney King had it right, why can't we just all get along?
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

I have two problems with the above quote..... The THEY part for one. It wasn't a single event that decided to give "Charity" to the less fortunate. It was an evolution of events and the actions of many people within the gov that we elected to office. So, IMO the "they" you refer to is really the best of "US"!
Second, the continued assertions that 50% pay nothing. That is such a uninformed, miss directed and false statement. Even the homeless pay taxes on every almost every purchase. And working people pay SS, State tax and Medicare.
BTW, what interpolation of the Constitution do you assert that we can't provide for the public welfare?
Sorry but I was referring to Federal and State INCOME TAXES, I thought I made that clear? They are only paying what they are forced to pay that's why a Fair/Flat/Consumption Tax is the way to go Disband the IRS.:cool:
 
You are wrong AND a grenade thrower http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?9489-What-s-the-world-coming-to&p=332465#post332465

I suppose you think those peaceful demonstrators deserved pepper spray http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?9940-Citizens-occupy-Wall-Street&p=332482#post332482

This is turning serious.
Yes Cosby is innocient!
But the demonstrators at Wall Street are picking on the wrong people, they should be at the White House.
"grenade thrower" :laugh: thanks I like that.:)
 
Yes Cosby is innocient!
But the demonstrators at Wall Street are picking on the wrong people, they should be at the White House.
"grenade thrower" :laugh: thanks I like that.:)

Wall Street OWNS Washington and the White House so I think the protesters are in the right place. nod.gif
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

Thanks FWM, Khotso and KevinD. The truth is out there but the spin is working hard to confuse the issue.

I just hate it that so many people think that we have a choice with a 2 party system. It's an illusion. Obama is TOLD what to say. He reads from a script...
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

I just hate it that so many people think that we have a choice with a 2 party system. It's an illusion. Obama is TOLD what to say. He reads from a script...

It is astonishing to me that there are people out there who refuse to see even the possibility that their world view is even slightly cracked. Why not allow that our system is broke and track the money to where it's broken. It's not at the bottom where the poor are being given bread and circuses to keep them quiet while this country is being shaken down by the people who run the corporations and the politicians for all the money they can carry away.

Fortunately, some of the poor and soon to be poor have found their voice and are protesting on Wall Street which is not being televised. The American dream is about improving our standard of living not becoming one of the poor. The 99% that believe in the American Dream are all asking that they be allowed to strive to that 1% status, but see the reality that policies implemented by those financial elites through political pressures and monetary policies are designed to move more of that 99% into poverty status. Active manipulations to shutdown upward mobility is what is angering people. No jobs, no homes or stable living situations due to foreclosure and/or loss of unemployment insurance, no loans to get people through this crisis plus so much more has put pressure on the 99% who find themselves through no fault of theirs, losing their jobs, homes, having to move in with parents or have parents move in with them all while watching wall street and banking firms getting bailed out and recording record profits with no flow down of that win-fall to the rest of us through jobs, loans, or a growing economy.

I'm a 99%-er - We were promised that our tax money given as bailouts to the same institutions that caused the crisis would stimulate our economy. I think we have been more than patient, but our savings have run out and we still have no jobs and our parents can't make their mortgage payment and may lose their homes and still no help from the banks and the government. It's easy to lump us all into a box in your head as lazy deadbeats and wrap that American Flag and Dream around yourself to continue to deny that upward mobility has been compromised in favor of corporate and share holder profits. And while you are not hurting right now, there are so many of us out there who see the destruction of our American Dream with our rising school debt and loss of our homes with a jobs market that is mostly off-shore. Why is it so hard to think we may be right instead of lazy?

http://davidbrin.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/class-war-and-the-lessons-of-history/
 
Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

It is astonishing to me that there are people out there who refuse to see even the possibility that their world view is even slightly cracked. Why not allow that our system is broke and track the money to where it's broken. It's not at the bottom where the poor are being given bread and circuses to keep them quiet while this country is being shaken down by the people who run the corporations and the politicians for all the money they can carry away.

Fortunately, some of the poor and soon to be poor have found their voice and are protesting on Wall Street which is not being televised. The American dream is about improving our standard of living not becoming one of the poor. The 99% that believe in the American Dream are all asking that they be allowed to strive to that 1% status, but see the reality that policies implemented by those financial elites through political pressures and monetary policies are designed to move more of that 99% into poverty status. Active manipulations to shutdown upward mobility is what is angering people. No jobs, no homes or stable living situations due to foreclosure and/or loss of unemployment insurance, no loans to get people through this crisis plus so much more has put pressure on the 99% who find themselves through no fault of theirs, losing their jobs, homes, having to move in with parents or have parents move in with them all while watching wall street and banking firms getting bailed out and recording record profits with no flow down of that win-fall to the rest of us through jobs, loans, or a growing economy.

I'm a 99%-er - We were promised that our tax money given as bailouts to the same institutions that caused the crisis would stimulate our economy. I think we have been more than patient, but our savings have run out and we still have no jobs and our parents can't make their mortgage payment and may lose their homes and still no help from the banks and the government. It's easy to lump us all into a box in your head as lazy deadbeats and wrap that American Flag and Dream around yourself to continue to deny that upward mobility has been compromised in favor of corporate and share holder profits. And while you are not hurting right now, there are so many of us out there who see the destruction of our American Dream with our rising school debt and loss of our homes with a jobs market that is mostly off-shore. Why is it so hard to think we may be right instead of lazy?

I am a very conservatibe person politically, and don't believe in handouts; however, a lot of what you say makes sense and I agree with you on a lot of your points. I am really fed up with our political system right now. Congress and the Senate just a bunch of bickering hipocrits that accomplsih absolutely NOTHING. I am so tired of this stalemate "no taxes on the rich crap".
 
Thanks jkenjohnson.

I have reread the following article and can't say too much about the history lesson it offers.

http://davidbrin.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/class-war-and-the-lessons-of-history/

......
= A wake-up call =

So what now? Well, for one thing, it’s time to rouse yourself from propaganda hypnosis. History repeats itself. And the last thing that the New Oligarchs want you to do is study history.
After a full generation of innocence, since the Second World War, in which we took for granted some highly unusual circumstances, we seem now to be plunging back toward the norm for human societies. And you – yes, you – need to start asking questions:
– like what degree of wealth disparity would you find discomforting? Today, unlike 1945 or 1980 or 1999, the top 400 U.S. families own more than the the bottom 50% of Americans. Please, please, please pause a minute and picture that in your mind. If you can somehow manage to shrug that off, is there some level of disparity that would worry you?
When it’s 75%? Or when it’s 90%? Admit that there is some level that would make even you call yourself the victim of class war. One that’s gone on (with a slight break) for 6000 years.
......
 
Don't most people outgrow the liberal mentality when they reach their thirties. A liberal sees a hungry man, they give him a fish to eat and lecture, that was the compassionate thing to do. A conservative sees the same hungry man and teaches him how to fish. Liberals want to tear people down. Conservatives want people to achieve and excel.
 
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