Malyla's Account Talk

[KevinD]

It';s not working out so good in europe...thats for sure.

 

[Birchtree]

Europe needs tourism - break the euro down to 1.26 and kill a few thugs and they'll survive on tourism dollars.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

Well RMI, I guess the same entity that pays the majority of your health care and retirement benefits. (and mine)

The US government.

But we WORK for the US government, the others getting benefits do not.

So, if you care, where does the USG get their money?

 

[Birchtree]

FWM needs to have a few Section 8 families move into his neighborhood - he'll have to put bars on his windows. He'll derive satisfaction knowing he has helped them attain a better housing situation - watch the yard go to hell.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

So does simply "working" ENTITLE you (and me) to taxpayer funded Gov't health and retirement benefits?

No, as usual, you are not seeing the forest for the trees. You are also once again, comparing apples to oranges.

My employer is the US Government (actually, I serve at the whim of the President of the United States). As part of that employment contract, certain benefits are provided; healthcare, TSP, pension, etc. I am not "entitled" (a word you love to use) to these benefits, I work for them.
Non-working, freeloaders on the dole of the government do not work for these benefits, they feel they are "entitled" to them just because they breath. Uh, no...

OBTW. How is all this socialist freeloading going in Europe???

We don't have a mandate for employers in the private sector to provide those entitlements. And 50% of them do not.

You are absolutely right, we don't have a mandate... for now. ObamaCare will soon change that.

The employer has a right as a private business to have, or not to have, healthcare as a benefit. IT IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS, NOT A SOCIALIST GOVERMENT ENTITY.
If the business feels they can afford that benefit, they provide it; if not, they don't. They have that freedom in this country (for now). If you don't like the company because of the benefits, don't work for them.
Find another one that feeds your needs. Oh, you could also buy insurance from the government, I believe it is called COBRA (I hear it stinks and is real expensive).

I worked for years in the private sector, and when I interviewed with companies (never worked for any bigger than 100 people), I looked at their benefits, salary compensation, etc to decide who I want to work for... my choice

This is a country of freedom and choice. We were founded on it. If you don't like something, at least here in the USA, you have a choice to go somewhere else, work somewhere else, or do just about anything... somewhere else... including moving to the country you like better than the USA. If you don't like it here... MOVE... It is still your CHOICE.

Don't make me, and the other 47% of US citizens that pay taxes, pay for your hurt conscious. If you feel bad, send your money to the USG and they can divy it up how they see fit; quit asking me to...

FWM needs to have a few Section 8 families move into his neighborhood - he'll have to put bars on his windows. He'll derive satisfaction knowing he has helped them attain a better housing situation - watch the yard go to hell.

Not just the yard, but the whole neighborhood.

 

[PessOptimist]

See responses above.

{SNIP...]My employer is the US Government (actually, I serve at the whim of the President of the United States). As part of that employment contract, certain benefits are provided; healthcare, TSP, pension, etc. I am not "entitled" (a word you love to use) to these benefits, I work for them.

You "work" for your salary. And you serve a great president...its good that you are so proud of it.
You "get" socialized benefits at the benevolence of the government. It can change at anytime...and likely will if the Tea Party comes in and gives you a "Cobra" voucher instead of your current FEHB plan. [/SNIP]

[SNIP]Don't make me, and the other 47% of US citizens that pay taxes, pay for your hurt conscious. If you feel bad, send your money to the USG and they can divy it up how they see fit; quit asking me to...

Brother, do you realize how silly you sound. Probably 100% of your salary and most of your medical/retirement benefits are supported by taxes other people pay to keep you afloat.
You (and I) are no different than those under welfare reform who have to report to gov't work projects in order to continue getting a gov't check. [/SNIP]

Great discussion. We work for our salary. FWM, does that make it an entitlement? We get socialized benefits. Entitlements also?

Our salaries and benefits are paid for by tax dollars? Gee, how enlightening. So, FWM you are saying that we as US government employees are "no different than those under welfare reform who have to report to gov't work projects in order to continue getting a gov't check"? Can I think this means you believe we ARE different from the many who have to do nothing except fill out a form to get a gov't check? Is the salary we work for really an "entitlement" in the same sense as those benefits received the various US Social Welfare Services?

Great conversations going on here Malyla. Hope you are enjoying them.

 

[KevinD]

Bored?

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/67xx/doc6792/10-18-Tax.pdf

 

[malyla]

No worries

This has been a very entertaining and stimulating discussion and I appreciate everyone's input.
FWM - liked your reasoning. There are a lot of examples of bad behavior out there that make people crazy. Seeing someone you think should not be eligible for help, getting help with our tax dollars makes me crazy, but I have learned that sometimes things are not what they seem. Politicians and FOX news pundits, plus others, are good at making us crazy by presenting a situation in simplistic terms, but when the matter is more deeply researched, one usually finds that the situation that causes the crazy feeling is not truth.

Just heard today on pbs News Hour that we added another large number of Americans to the poverty rolls in this country most likely related to the loss of jobs. So >50% of Americans are making less than $22k/yr for a family of four....which means Uganda may have jumped ahead of us on the income equality chart

Anyone still think this is a recession?

 

[KevinD]

Kevin,

Nice link, but "ughhh" my brain hurts after about page 15 or so.
Reading all that is as entertaining as watching paint dry. (lol)

PO,
I worded the welfare analogy very carefully by NOT describing someone who does nothing and gets a check.
I very specifically showed an example under welfare reform which some states are pushing, that has able bodied people reporting to special gov't work projects in order to continue getting benefits. Thats the comparison I made.

Sorry if that analogy hurts your self esteem. Doesn't hurt mine...I try to check my ego at the door and keep it real.

Only place my ego can get out of control at times...is on these blogs (lol!).

Sorry Mayla.

You made it further than I did. I quit reading when they claimed that there was "implied income from owner-occupied housing" around page 10. WTF?

I upset my coworkers when I admit to getting a government check but that I DO something for mine. And that government should make those who do nothing for their check deliver the mail...

 

[Elgallo]

The correct reference to what you are discussing here is "Workfare". If I'm not mistaken New Jersey implemented it awhile back. I understand that when this occured the wellfare rolls dropped dramatically for two reasons: 1. The truly lazy didn't show up to work and did not receive a check, and 2. It bacame evident that it became difficult for one person with 2-3 other fradulent wellfare identities to show up other than once.

Also whether these folks relized it or not, having to show up and work for your check provided them some dignity and somthing to begin to be proud of as a citizen of this country. A country built on the hard work of those who came befor us.

 

[SteelSaving]

I usually don't like anectodal stories about this sort of thing but a "story" I heard about welfare.

Company has a job opening out, they interview candidates, make an offer, the candidate says he doesn't want to take a job until his welfare runs out.

Is there anything stopping someone from making some money on the side while they are taking welfare. I'm talking working on cars or small engines, perhaps house keeping, babysitting? Assuming nobody declares any of this money exchanging hands.
Well, other then the law of course.

 

[Elgallo]

.........Is there anything stopping someone from making some money on the side while they are taking welfare. ........

Nope, this happens all the time. Being on welfare has nothing to do with it. My guess is every one of us has made a buck or two at sometime in our life and not claimed it as income. I'm not saying it's right, it just a fact.

BTW Good idea about having the welfare reciepients assist in processing and delivering the mail.

 

[KevinD]

I was being facetious...

 

[SteelSaving]

Well, in the case of people who actually do that sort of thing...

It's one thing to try to get out of paying taxes on earnings, it's a whole other thing to be taking welfare while making some money that you aren't declaring, but that's just me.

And yes, providing work that needs to be done to people on welfare is a great idea. At least we aren't forcing them in the military or anything. I also don't understand the issue with drug testing welfare recipients.

 

[KevinD]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216?print=true

As for President Obama, what is there to be said? Goldman Sachs was his number-one private campaign contributor. He put a Citigroup executive in charge of his economic transition team, and he just named an executive of JP Morgan Chase, the proud owner of $7.7 million in Chase stock, his new chief of staff. "The betrayal that this represents by Obama to everybody is just — we're not ready to believe it," says Budde, a classmate of the president from their Columbia days. "He's really fucking us over like that? Really? That's really a JP Morgan guy, really?"

Which is not to say that the Obama era has meant an end to law enforcement. On the contrary: In the past few years, the administration has allocated massive amounts of federal resources to catching wrongdoers — of a certain type. Last year, the government deported 393,000 people, at a cost of $5 billion. Since 2007, felony immigration prosecutions along the Mexican border have surged 77 percent; nonfelony prosecutions by 259 percent. In Ohio last month, a single mother was caught lying about where she lived to put her kids into a better school district; the judge in the case tried to sentence her to 10 days in jail for fraud, declaring that letting her go free would "demean the seriousness" of the offenses.

FWM - I still think you should reconsider your thoughts on the president.

 

[malyla]

My entrance point is 540 - 510 on the EMW, with 540 being the most likely.

My Elliott wave info source (along with Uptrend first) http://caldaro.wordpress.com/

I like Uptrend's counts more, but I do check out other counts from time to time including the fearless forecasters on tradertalk

I'm now looking at an entry at 520 (bottom projection for wave 5). The 5th wave of the 5th wave down should be occurring now. (4th wave had an ABC pattern before it concluded). My source is the elliott wave poster on the Fearless Forecasters (forget his handle):embarrest:

 

[malyla]

Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs

Thank you for saying that this class warfare spin is a crock (well I'm paraphrasing ). Also, could you speak to the income disparity in this country. Really, 50% of Americans are at the poverty line while ~400 of the riches families own more than all of those 50% of Americans combined. This isn't about socialism but social responsibility as no one made their millions without the infrastructure we all (parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc...) paid for. It's time the rich paid their fair share. Social responsibility worked well for this country in the past. It's time to get back to it now when we are in trouble and really need it. IMO


Oh for Pete's sake....

News Alert: Senate defeats short-term measure to fund government
September 23, 2011 12:53:50 PM
----------------------------------------

Early Friday afternoon, the Senate defeated, 59 to 36, a spending bill to fund the government through Nov. 18.

With both chambers scheduled to begin a week-long recess later Friday, the next step on the funding resolution remains unclear. The Federal Emergency Management Agency could run out of funding as early as Monday, and the resolution currently keeping the federal government open is set to expire on Sept. 30.

The House had passed the bill, 219 to 203, in the early hours on Friday morning after an earlier failure.



http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/QJTXP3/OJHVXS/KE8LF9/LZHKH4/3TJVD/QR/h

For more information, visit washingtonpost.com

 

[nnuut]

Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

Another opinion wouldn't hurt, would it?
Elizabeth Warren Video: One of the Great Teaching Tools on Liberalism

September 22, 2011

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. Now, this woman has been an Obama advisor. She oversaw TARP, appointed by Harry Reid, teacher at Harvard, Rutgers University law school, law review. Ms. Warren, those trucks that were manufactured to lay the asphalt, or cement to make those roads, those trucks were made by the private sector. Those trucks were made by some other evil factory owner. She uses the example of a factory, but now let's go to the automobile manufacturers, the truck makers, somebody else who couldn't have done it on his or her own without all the rest of us. The clothing worn by the people building the roads and the security forces protecting the factory owner from the marauding bands, made by people in the private sector. The same with the gasoline in the trucks and the diesel in the trucks, all of it came from the private sector.
Not any of it, zilch, came from the government. Ms. Warren, the government doesn't have any money until it takes it from people first.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...one_of_the_great_teaching_tools_on_liberalism

 

[malyla]

Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

Another opinion wouldn't hurt, would it?
Elizabeth Warren Video: One of the Great Teaching Tools on Liberalism

September 22, 2011

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...one_of_the_great_teaching_tools_on_liberalism

You know better nnuut:cheesy:. The government paid for those trucks and gas with tax payer money to perform this work in building the infrastructure. It was only since the 1990s that this work was contracted out so that the government was just leasing/contracting with the construction companies to perform the infrastructure work still paid for with tax payer money. No matter how you spin it, the infrastructure of this country that supports the factory was paid for by government (i.e. tax payers) money including the fire fighting and police protection. Even the utilities were subsidized by the governments (and therefore the tax payers). I'm fine with another opinion, but rush is neither credible nor nice. He is about inflammatory rhetoric and spin.
If the factory builder had to also build the roads, run the utility lines/pipes, build the trucks, and train all his uneducated workers to do their job effectively, then I would say they have the right to not pay taxes as their expenses for making and selling their product was 100% financed by themselves, but that not true, is it? Yes the factory paid taxes, but with tax breaks provided by governments to lure that factory into the area and the other tax breaks given by Bush to that top 10% of the riches Americans, these factory builders pay much less than their factory workers who have less disposable income after taxes. Just what is wrong with paying your fair share for using systems that are in place because tax payers allowed for that system to be built?

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

Re: Elizabeth Warren is my new hero

He is about inflammatory rhetoric and spin.

So are others like, say Ed Schultz, Ron Reagan, and the almighty Reverend Al Sharpton... There are plenty on both sides