So when is the bottom

1927-1933 Chart of Pompous Prognosticators
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Chart locations are an approximate indication only

  1. "We will not have any more crashes in our time."
    - John Maynard Keynes in 1927
  2. "I cannot help but raise a dissenting voice to statements that we are living in a fool's paradise, and that prosperity in this country must necessarily diminish and recede in the near future."
    - E. H. H. Simmons, President, New York Stock Exchange, January 12, 1928
    "There will be no interruption of our permanent prosperity."
    - Myron E. Forbes, President, Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co., January 12, 1928
  3. "No Congress of the United States ever assembled, on surveying the state of the Union, has met with a more pleasing prospect than that which appears at the present time. In the domestic field there is tranquility and contentment...and the highest record of years of prosperity. In the foreign field there is peace, the goodwill which comes from mutual understanding."
    - Calvin Coolidge December 4, 1928
  4. "There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash."
    - Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929
  5. "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher within a few months."
    - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929
    "This crash is not going to have much effect on business."
    - Arthur Reynolds, Chairman of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, October 24, 1929
    "There will be no repetition of the break of yesterday... I have no fear of another comparable decline."
    - Arthur W. Loasby (President of the Equitable Trust Company), quoted in NYT, Friday, October 25, 1929
    "We feel that fundamentally Wall Street is sound, and that for people who can afford to pay for them outright, good stocks are cheap at these prices."
    - Goodbody and Company market-letter quoted in The New York Times, Friday, October 25, 1929
  6. "This is the time to buy stocks. This is the time to recall the words of the late J. P. Morgan... that any man who is bearish on America will go broke. Within a few days there is likely to be a bear panic rather than a bull panic. Many of the low prices as a result of this hysterical selling are not likely to be reached again in many years."
    - R. W. McNeel, market analyst, as quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
    "Buying of sound, seasoned issues now will not be regretted"
    - E. A. Pearce market letter quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
    "Some pretty intelligent people are now buying stocks... Unless we are to have a panic -- which no one seriously believes, stocks have hit bottom."
    - R. W. McNeal, financial analyst in October 1929
  7. "The decline is in paper values, not in tangible goods and services...America is now in the eighth year of prosperity as commercially defined. The former great periods of prosperity in America averaged eleven years. On this basis we now have three more years to go before the tailspin."
    - Stuart Chase (American economist and author), NY Herald Tribune, November 1, 1929
    "Hysteria has now disappeared from Wall Street."
    - The Times of London, November 2, 1929
    "The Wall Street crash doesn't mean that there will be any general or serious business depression... For six years American business has been diverting a substantial part of its attention, its energies and its resources on the speculative game... Now that irrelevant, alien and hazardous adventure is over. Business has come home again, back to its job, providentially unscathed, sound in wind and limb, financially stronger than ever before."
    - Business Week, November 2, 1929
    "...despite its severity, we believe that the slump in stock prices will prove an intermediate movement and not the precursor of a business depression such as would entail prolonged further liquidation..."
    - Harvard Economic Society (HES), November 2, 1929
  8. "... a serious depression seems improbable; [we expect] recovery of business next spring, with further improvement in the fall."
    - HES, November 10, 1929
    "The end of the decline of the Stock Market will probably not be long, only a few more days at most."
    - Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics at Yale University, November 14, 1929
    "In most of the cities and towns of this country, this Wall Street panic will have no effect."
    - Paul Block (President of the Block newspaper chain), editorial, November 15, 1929
    "Financial storm definitely passed."
    - Bernard Baruch, cablegram to Winston Churchill, November 15, 1929
  9. "I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism... I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress."
    - Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929
    "I am convinced that through these measures we have reestablished confidence."
    - Herbert Hoover, December 1929
    "[1930 will be] a splendid employment year."
    - U.S. Dept. of Labor, New Year's Forecast, December 1929
  10. "For the immediate future, at least, the outlook (stocks) is bright."
    - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in Economics, in early 1930
  11. "...there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over..."
    - Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930
  12. "There is nothing in the situation to be disturbed about."
    - Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon, Feb 1930
  13. "The spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern...American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity."
    - Julius Barnes, head of Hoover's National Business Survey Conference, Mar 16, 1930
    "... the outlook continues favorable..."
    - HES Mar 29, 1930
  14. "... the outlook is favorable..."
    - HES Apr 19, 1930
  15. "While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst -- and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us."
    - Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930
    "...by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent..."
    - HES May 17, 1930
    "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
    - Herbert Hoover, responding to a delegation requesting a public works program to help speed the recovery, June 1930
  16. "... irregular and conflicting movements of business should soon give way to a sustained recovery..."
    - HES June 28, 1930
  17. "... the present depression has about spent its force..."
    - HES, Aug 30, 1930
  18. "We are now near the end of the declining phase of the depression."
    - HES Nov 15, 1930
  19. "Stabilization at [present] levels is clearly possible."
    - HES Oct 31, 1931
  20. "All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S."
    - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
 
Three years from Peek to Bottom ! Should history repeat itself and we see
another Great Depression, we only have 25 months of misery to go ! :cheesy:
 
So Last week I started looking at some charts and reading alot of data on market movement.

I am operating now under the 8100/840 Rule. (Dow/S&P):suspicious:

I think when we see these coming, they will tell us the mood in the market.


We slip below those for any length, we get to see a second level of the basement.
 
Maybe it's time to change my Avatar......

I'll have to think about that.


I think you need to think about that some more - I'm not even sure that bearishness is even a sentiment any more - as much as a reality.

I can't even imagine what the market will do tomorrow; as any hope of a big 3 bailout is erased with congress adjournment friday. All US major automakers taken out by the end of the year. $350 billion pissed away on financial institutions; and what did we get out of that? Daily revisions of "plans" by Sheila Barr to keep people in houses they can't afford.

Basically throwing anything at the wall to see what will stick; nothing has yet, and probably won't. Any light at the end of the tunnel is dimming, I thought the bottom would be at least a year away (late 2009); now I'm not so sure even about that (squalebear may be right). Time will tell.
 
816 on spx cash is 1st support level based on pivot point indicator - indicator which defines the mid point of previous month as the pivot (go long if close above, etc) and calculates upper resistance 1st and 2nd, and lower support 1st and 2nd, based on other variables, which ones, I'm not sure :).
 
The bottom is when everyone quits asking "Is this the bottom?" and just gives up.
I'm starting to get that feeling, but every rally spurs hope.
 
To all the economic pundits and CNBC-Bloomberg talking heads who, a couple of months ago said "now is not the time to sell" as the market continued to collapse, I hope you took your own advice.
 
I sure as hell took my own advice last July (sell); and gave it to everybody else - and then again more recently, when the market showed brief fluctuation into the mid-upper 900's. sell sell sell.

Even that hold out Cramer said it in October - sell.

Just in case any of you buy-and-holders didn't get it before, I'll give it to you again. Are you ready? Big money saver coming - here it is:

Sell into the slightest rally - especially into the 900's. Sell it all. Sell it like there's no tomorrow. Sell sell sell!!!

And one more time, for those sitting on the fence:

Sell. Get out while you can.
 
Well, my new Rule now that we are below the basement:

7500/760


This is my next "major support" line.....I have halted all purchases of stocks and bonds and now I'm fence sitting. I am worried that even my "G" investment may not be safe. I know, I know, but really: Is anything "government backed" safe right now?
 
amoeba,

You sound like a car salesman - with endless bearish arguments out there, many very logical and plausible, it is easy to surrender to the pessimism and capitulate. While most naive investors are crushed in these secular bears, prudent investors like myself can thrive. I have over 51 dividend payers lined up for December and I hope the pricing remains simply luscious and golden. I'm trying to decide if I want to scare up another $100K to throw down the well.
 
amoeba,

You sound like a car salesman - with endless bearish arguments out there, many very logical and plausible, it is easy to surrender to the pessimism and capitulate. While most naive investors are crushed in these secular bears, prudent investors like myself can thrive. I have over 51 dividend payers lined up for December and I hope the pricing remains simply luscious and golden. I'm trying to decide if I want to scare up another $100K to throw down the well.

That's well and good for you, Birch.....but this is mainly a TSP forum....and most of us "little" guys just have the TSP. You've got a lot of knowledge about stocks and a very optimistic view. But, knowing no more than I do, I get confused trying to understand where you are coming from as it applies to my TSP investment. That's what I most need to understand here. As little as I understand, I got "out" the first of January after losing the last quarter of '07...and haven't been back "in" yet. Soooooooo glad I did. Just waiting till I see a good reason to be a bull again. It'll happen....see, I'm optimistic too...but, I'm a poor retired, dumb, government employee who really does need the TSP I've accumulated to continue with a reasonable retirement. Share with us some direct TSP investment advice....I "might" be able to understand where you're coming from with that, not sure, but I'll try.

Lobo :)
 
I have over 51 dividend payers lined up for December...

Ya know Birch...In theory, if one were to invest in a diversified mix of C, S, and I funds, they'd probably have exposure to over 1,000 dividend paying stocks in their portfolio.
 
well lobo:

That depends on your risk tolerance; the market is pricing in a failure of Congress to provide any support of US automakers, which will result, likely before the first week of December - bankruptcy - lots of unemployment and the associated consequences. Among those will be a horrible holiday retail season, and an unemployment rate of 10% and up next year.

The Senate vote will be tomorrow at the earliest and friday at the latest. What will happen if some $25B rabbit comes out of a hat? And what will happen if it doesn't?

Now, I know what you're thinkin:

"did amoeba tell me to sell five times or six? To tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I forgot myself so you have to ask yourself:"

"Do I feel lucky?"
 
Bullitt,

You are correct about the dividends paying into the C,S,and I fund. However, that income is used to pay expenses rather than going to the TSP participant. As you know, having an outside account means having more risk but then again the rewards are greater. My TSP account is on auto-pilot and that is where it will stay as long as I can DCA into the C fund. I'm so looking forward to a $9.00 purchase with those extra share accumulations.
 
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