Seat 19A

[James48843]

Those are the folks that the news should be covering.

 

[Show-me]

I don't need you to list them, don't be so pompous!!! I know about them! I read about them every day!

Their deaths mean a lot to me, but the deaths of American soldiers on a military base in CONUS worries me much more. Afghanistan and Iraq are combat zones America is NOT, yet.

 

[Show-me]

I would think that deaths in CONUS or attempt to commit suicide bombings should carry a little more weight as it is on American soil, not in a combat zone and effects civilian casualties.

I feel for the lose of combat, but HERE in America we should not have to expect it.

Two suicide attacks in such a short time on American soil. You can not differentiate.

 

[Show-me]

Those are the folks that the news should be covering.

A the folks in Ft. Hood on American soil, were they should be the most safe?

 

[James48843]

Afghanistan and Iraq are combat zones America is NOT, yet.

Wrong.

The entire planet is a combat zone.

Where have you been?

 

[Show-me]

So you admit they are soldiers?

 

[James48843]

So you admit they are soldiers?

Soldiers? Hell No.

They are criminals.

Giving them status as "soldiers" is clearly wrong- and would give them certain rights under the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.icrc.org/web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/genevaconventions

They are not uniformed, they do not act on behalf of a nation-state. Therefore, they cannot be considered "soldiers".

 

[James48843]

Here is what is necessary under the law for someone to be considered "a soldier":

From the First Geneva Convention, Article 13, this can be related to who is a soldier legally:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a Government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civil members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany.
(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions in international law.
(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

 

[phil]

Looks like the media has picked up the story about the communications breakdown that existed in our government about the passenger.

President Obama says that a systemic failure occured.

It's interesting.

 

[mudigha]

The crazy thing about that latest plot is that this guy had so much to lose. Coming from a rich family, educated at the top schools. Who was this guy talking to out there. Who is influencing these guys. For this guy to light himself on fire to prove a point. Didnt anybody see it in his eyes. Everytime I fly I look everybody up and down. Not to say it cant happen on my flight but somebody had to notice this guys demeanor. Fly 8 to 10 hours with gasoline undees...come on. I have a bad feeling things will get very serious especially with Obama in office. I feel sorry for the man honestly. Bush put us in a bad spot just to make some money for his friends(which includes some of our so called enemies). These fat kats are making money off of Americans and our enemies and we are just all suckers. So just voicing my opinion. But just take note. OSI stocks rose 35% over the past 3 days. I am not a stocks guy but I am pretty sure the Government has already made some contract offers for there image detection machines. I wonder who owns the company, who's on the board, and who are the major share holders. I am pretty sure there are a few of our favorite Washington big willies in there!

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Show-me, it is clear you don't have the same understanding of what a military is that the rest of us do. A military is the formal, legal entity under international law, that engages in brute force to exercise political will. In order to be recognized as legal, it has to be the official force of some nation, or, in the case of civil war military, it has to be a participant with a goal of taking power in that nation. Civil war militaries are not protected under the laws of war the same way international fighting forces of a nation are.

Bottom line, if you were to kill a combatant after they were in custody, that would be considered murder. Under military law of war, you have an obligation to safeguard the prisoner until the end of hostilities, and then you have the obligation to release them.

Why would you want to safeguard and release "the testicle bomber"?

Under criminal prosecution, I anticipate he won't ever see the light of day again. This is a criminal matter under Title 18. So far they've only charged him with one count of attempted destruction of an aircraft (20 year felony).

There are a half-dozen more criminal violations which could and should be charged, but that will wait until they are ready to indict and move forward with a trial. Charges should include possession of explosives, attempted murder, setting fire to an aircraft, interfering with a flight crew. Each is enough to tack on a lot more years.

So why do you think he should instead get a military trial?

The only reason military trials were considered for the Gitmo guys is that the rules of evidence would be hard to meet for those picked up on the ground in Afghanistan, or those "extraordinarily rendition" cases, where the legality of capturing them in other countries and bringing them into US custody could be grounds for throwing out the case. We don't have such problems with this case. It's pretty open and shut, with witnesses, evidence, and taken into custody on US soil.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Treat them as prisoners of war and release them when we sign a peace treaty with Al Quaeda. Guess what, it will never happen. These people could have rotted in Gitmo and the problem would have been solved. Treating them like criminals gives them rights and a chance at freedom that they should not have.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Getting back to the underwear bomber, the security failure obviously happened first in Nigeria. I haven't been to Amsterdam airport, so I don't know if there are additional screenings when one travels from one "secure area" to another. In other words, were there additional screenings in Amsterdam? If so, who conducts the checks? What is the screening process? Do they single anyone out for a pat down? Most of the time, it's the baggage that gets the additional screening and maybe the contents of one's pockets. They don't usually have someone strip down, unless something was found in the baggage or pockets to justify a strip search. Let's not forget the "racial profiling" sensitivities!

I guess my real question is, how is this the Obama Administration's fault? I'm all for blaming Obama for his missteps, but I don't see where his administration is at fault here. The breech seems to be between Nigerian and Danish security, not so much with the DHS.

 

[James48843]

Getting back to the underwear bomber, the security failure obviously happened first in Nigeria. I haven't been to Amsterdam airport, so I don't know if there are additional screenings when one travels from one "secure area" to another. In other words, were there additional screenings in Amsterdam? If so, who conducts the checks? What is the screening process? Do they single anyone out for a pat down?.

I have flown through Amsterdam, on NW253 several times. Very serious security checks there. In addition to passing again through metal detectors, every time I have flown through Amsterdam, I have witnessed multiple, individual, conversation based discussion by uniformed guards of each passenger. I was asked individual questions each time I've flown through. They look into your eyes pretty darn good, if you ask me. And it wasn't just a few of the passengers, I believe every time I have flown through Amsterdam, it's been the same for every one who has been on the plane. Amsterdam is much tighter than just about any U.S. airport I've been through. I fly about 25K miles per year, and have for 20 years.

I'm not sure what happened this time. But hey, no human is ever going to be perfect. You do the best you can, and you deter as best you can.

 

[Show-me]

Treat them as prisoners of war and release them when we sign a peace treaty with Al Quaeda. Guess what, it will never happen. These people could have rotted in Gitmo and the problem would have been solved. Treating them like criminals gives them rights and a chance at freedom that they should not have.

That is exactly it. Gitmo was the perfect island penitentiary for these people.

 

[Bullitt]

Don't hate me. Dr. Laurie Roth's words, not mine.

I think there needs to be a whole other set of questioning and checks by anyone who falls in the realm of the following:
Middle Eastern

• Has Arabic writing anywhere near them
• Has a Koran with them
• Once on the plane, any movement to a cell phone, getting up and changing seats or going to the bathroom, should mean immediate checking and/or consequences.
• Loud prayers, chants and anti American or military statements….immediate denial to fly.

We must put MORE Muslim fundamentalists and their supporters on watch and do not fly lists, then train ALL of our security force to actually follow through on the list instead of minimizing or ‘spacing’ regarding it.
Remember, we are at war and there have been multiple dry runs and attempts at attacks on our planes since 9/11 and multiple murders of our troops by other Muslim soldiers. These people are organized, persistent, study our system, sensitivities, legal loop holes and play us like a violin. We must stop this madness unless we wish to die.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18395

 

[phil]

He wasn't Middle Eastern. Ethnically, he was Nigerian. Having a Koran with you wouldn't really indicate that you were a terrorist. Far from it.

 

[grandma]

Don't hate me. Dr. Laurie Roth's words, not mine.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18395

We are at war and we have to identify the enemy…..not Christian gun owners; not Republicans; not conservative talk show hosts and not our military. It is Islamic fundamentalists who are being recruited and trained to kill infidels worldwide. Though they are represented by many nationalities, they are mostly Middle Eastern and are being recruited in our prisons and trained in Islamic compounds across this country. These Islamic compounds have been exposed and investigated by Doug Hagmann and many are being watched by authorities.

...there ya go ! Italic emphasis is mine....

 

[Buster]

Don't hate me. Dr. Laurie Roth's words, not mine.

This is old stuff, but no less truth to it today...Add a few more events to the list and you will be current..

HISTORY TEST​

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened!!!​

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:​

a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40​

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:​

a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:​

a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:​

a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:​

a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:​

a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:​

a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40​

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:​

a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Center Towers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, ....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because you will be profiling.

 

[Buster]

Not post whoring, I just hit enter twice

 

[burrocrat]

I'm glad the quiz choices included the word extremist in the answer, shows you're not a racist. I'm sure there are many muslim 17-40 males that aren't extremists. that's good, but a high percentage of extremists attacking the US tend to be muslim lately. If that's profiling then I don't have a problem with it.

I think we should equally profile other groups just to be fair though. Like if someone is wearing camoflage pants and sporting a mullet, pull them aside. they most certainly could use a good talking to.

happy new year buster.