Ask James48843

[nnuut]

bingo!

I'll DOUBLE that BINGO!!

 

[Show-me]

Here is a question. Which is easier on the enviorment? Drive the wheels off of the existing cars or build new cars?

http://www.theconglomerate.org/2008/07/car-talk.html

July 02, 2008
Car Talk
Posted by Fred Tung
A couple of car-related items:
First, about hybrid cars . . . .
Christine and Gordon's recent hybrid car postings (Highlander for Christine; Prius for Gordon) got me thinking. You see, my family lives in a Prius-rich environment. Literally about a third of our friends have at least one Prius in the family, and one family has two--and they are Prius proselytizers as well. We, on other hand, drive a couple of relatively old, relatively guzzly cars. The efficient one is a 12-year-old Volvo, which gets about 15 mpg in city driving. The other is a 10-year-old Lexus SUV (the big one), which gets about 10 mpg (with a tailwind). When I get self-conscious about our old guzzlers, my defense mechanisms cause me to speculate about whether buying a new hybrid is as green as generally believed. Specifically, the manufacture of a new car--even a really fuel-efficient one--must leave a pretty big carbon footprint, right? All that steel and shipping! Is it possible we'd be better off just keeping our old cars forever and repairing them as needed, as they do in Cuba?
Turns out, building a new Prius requires 113 million BTUs of energy. So compared to an existing car, in carbon footprint terms, a new Prius has already consumed 1,000 gallons of gasoline before it rolls off the showroom floor! Instead of a new Prius, buy:
i. a 1998 Toyota Tercel, which gets about 35 mpg. You'd have to drive the Prius 100,000 miles before you broke even with the old Tercel.
or
ii. a 1994 Geo Metro XFi, which gets the same 46 mpg as the new Prius, but without the carbon overhead. In terms of carbon footprint, the Prius will never catch up.
Of course, odds are that you won't be getting that new-car smell. As one analyst concludes, "You might feel better driving a hybrid, but you won't necessarily be greener."

http://environment.about.com/od/environmentfriendlyautos/a/new_old_cars.htm

And,

Dear EarthTalk: Is it better to drive an older, well-maintained car that gets about 25 miles per gallon, or to buy a new car that gets about 35 miles per gallon? – Edward Peabody, via e-mail
It definitely makes more sense from a green perspective to keep your old car running and well-maintained as long as you can—especially if it’s getting such good mileage. There are significant environmental costs to both manufacturing a new automobile and adding your old car to the ever-growing collective junk heap.

 

[nnuut]

There are many less fortunate folks out there that need transportation - why not give them these clunkers. This would help some looking for work to get around. This stupid policy is wasting good assets that still have viable benefits for the less fortunate and younger workers - we can live with a little air polution. The elites are fools.

I'm with you on this one Birchtree!!! Plenty of salvage yards going to be laying off employees. How about companies that rebuild car parts for resale, at Auto Parts Stores and on line. Do you think that will help the employment numbers? My daughter is looking for a used car right now and is playing hell trying to find something for $6,000 bucks! What is their next move, forcing you to junk your car when it gets 7 years old? OH! MAN!!! Somebody STOP ME!!!:nuts::nuts:

 

[Show-me]

Of course the White House knows this, as does Congress and the auto industry.

This is about make'n money. Nothing more. Take'n from the rich and give'n it away as a incentive to go into debt for a car you probably can't afford.

 

[Birchtree]

You hit the nail on the head - buying a car they probably can't afford. The repo man will be busy you can bet on that.

 

[alevin]

I learned years ago (with respect to my 7+yr old SLR 35mm camera) that mfrs. by law only needed to provide parts for durable equipment 7yrs old or younger. Since my Nissan pu is 14 yrs old, I'm livin' on borrowed time already with respect to used parts, but I'll keep it and run it as long as I possibly can. Still cheaper operating than buying new anything, including insurance. By the time I'm forced to buy replacement, maybe I'll have at least half the cash price saved up. Might buy one of those electrified bicycles for work commute. ONLY $8K!

 

[Buster]

I'm with you on this one Birchtree!!! Plenty of salvage yards going to be laying off employees. (come on, how many empoyees are you talking about? 12 maybe nation wide?) How about companies that rebuild car parts for resale, at Auto Parts Stores and on line. Do you think that will help the employment numbers? (Can't see where if any would be affected at all..they don't resell used engines unless they have been Completely rebuilt)

WRONG!!!!!!

back away from the Cool-aid jug, before any drips on you..I'm sensing Mass Hysteria here :suspicious:

They are not destroying the WHOLE car, only the internal parts of the engine..which are usually worn out anyway..the rest of the car is still salvagable, right down to the lug nuts..


Geeezz!

 

[Show-me]

Free market will take care of you and your old car. Just ask O'Rielly's, AutoZone, PepBoyz, Parts America, Napa, and any salvage yard.

I own two 1990 Ford trucks, a 1989 Chevy Celebrity, a 1990 Toyota Corolla, and a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan. No problem getting any parts for any of them and I do not buy OEM unless I have to.

 

[Show-me]

Buster,

They are destroying the secondary used car market by scrapping them out.

 

[Buster]

Buster,

They are destroying the secondary used car market by scrapping them out.

No they are Not...Only the total junkers that barely run and are beyond salvage..

RULES: To qualify, purchasers must turn in a car or light truck that gets no more than 18 miles per gallon, and buy or lease a vehiTo qualify, purchasers must turn in a car or light truck that gets no more than 18 miles per gallon, and buy or lease a vehicle that gets at least 22 mpg. The mileage standards refer to a model's combined city-highway mpg as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency. The vehicle also must be less than 25 years old.cle that gets at least 22 mpg. The mileage standards refer to a model's combined city-highway mpg as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency. The vehicle also must be less than 25 years old.

Clunkers’ engines can’t be resold
Automotive recyclers cannot sell the engine of a Cash for Clunkers car. As part of the program, the engines must be disabled with sodium silicate, or liquid glass. This requirement has prompted protest by the Automotive Recyclers Association because engines comprise 30 percent to 35 percent of sales for the group’s members.....Many parts of a car can be recycled. For instance, when a vehicle goes to an automotive recycler, the hazardous fluids are drained and can be reused

http://www.rockymountainindependent.com/2009/08/clunkers-wont-be-headed-to-the-junkyard/

 

[Birchtree]

Ask Buster if he is going to trade in that Hummer?

 

[nnuut]

WRONG!!!!!!

back away from the Cool-aid jug, before any drips on you..I'm sensing Mass Hysteria here :suspicious:

They are not destroying the WHOLE car, only the internal parts of the engine..which are usually worn out anyway..the rest of the car is still salvagable, right down to the lug nuts..


Geeezz!

Well EXCUSE ME, but I don't agree, it goes deeper than you think. Now pull that wedgie out of your butt and get back to work, that screaming is hurting my ears!!! AANNDD I wish I did have some of that Cool-Aid, You, you Energy Drink Drinker - you!!:laugh:

 

[Buster]

Ask Buster if he is going to trade in that Hummer?

Why don't you ask me directly..instead of you asking someone else to ask me for you?

BTW..My Hummer gets 19-20 MPG average, so it doesn't qualify even if I wanted to trade it, which I don't...Again, your assumed facts are skewed:suspicious:

 

[Buster]

Well EXCUSE ME, but I don't agree, it goes deeper than you think. Now pull that wedgie out of your butt and get back to work, that screaming is hurting my ears!!!:laugh:

No wedgies here..just tired of everyone running for the cool-aid with ill-gotten assumptions..I know how deep it goes..do you really know? I don't thinks so, judging by what you said earlier.

 

[nnuut]

No wedgies here..just tired of everyone running for the cool-aid with ill-gotten assumptions..I know how deep it goes..do you really know? I don't thinks so, judging by what you said earlier.

This is just part of the Automakers Bailout , someone is going to pay for it, in some cases twice. Just pulled that out of my Wedgie!!

 

[Show-me]

No they are Not...Only the total junkers that barely run and are beyond salvage..

RULES: To qualify, purchasers must turn in a car or light truck that gets no more than 18 miles per gallon, and buy or lease a vehiTo qualify, purchasers must turn in a car or light truck that gets no more than 18 miles per gallon, and buy or lease a vehicle that gets at least 22 mpg. The mileage standards refer to a model's combined city-highway mpg as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency. The vehicle also must be less than 25 years old.cle that gets at least 22 mpg. The mileage standards refer to a model's combined city-highway mpg as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency. The vehicle also must be less than 25 years old.


http://www.rockymountainindependent.com/2009/08/clunkers-wont-be-headed-to-the-junkyard/

Like I said, they are destroying the used car market. I CAN NOT buy one of these USED CARS because they have to disable the engine and sell the unit for salvage. Salvage means they pull all the part that have resale or core value and then crush the tin that is left over. No one is going to be driving any of these car legally if I understand the program correctly.

Add another $2 billion and it gets worse while the executives of the auto makers make payroll.

 

[Birchtree]

But just think how clean our air will be to breath. It's the liberal answer and there is more foolishness to come.

 

[James48843]

Nnuutt- the used car market is virtually untouched by cash for clunkers. There are plenty of fine used cars for sale for a decent price, you just have to look around.

I send my friends to the GSA website for used G Cars for sale for a great price. http://www.autoauctions.gsa.gov/index.cfm

You can attend an auction in person, and get a better deal than you can at any local retail dealer. They go for generally below retail, and usually come with remaining factory warranty in many cases. You can find a lot of cars in the $6K price range.

Now, you won't find many Cameros. But you will find nice 2005 Dodge Stratus's for $6K. And many Chevrolet 2004 or 2005 Malibus for that price. Some even quite a bit less. Take a look at the on-line listings, and you get a general idea of the prices. Attend an auction in person, and you can walk away with an even better deal.

 

[Buster]

Like I said, they are destroying the used car market. I CAN NOT buy one of these USED CARS because they have to disable the engine and sell the unit for salvage. Salvage means they pull all the part that have resale or core value and then crush the tin that is left over. No one is going to be driving any of these car legally if I understand the program correctly.

Add another $2 billion and it gets worse while the executives of the auto makers make payroll.

We are both correct..the cars taken in on this plan will be forever disabled as a unit, but salvageable for parts..I thought that was the thrust of this discussion; "that the car would be totally worthless, even for parts", which is not the case..But you are right in your point of view, the car can not be resold as a running car anymore...SO what?..Clunker in my mind means exactly that..it will take more money to get it working and running safe and correctly than it's worth as a whole....So why not put someone in a extremely discounted car with years of factory warranty and very little car payment (much less than it would take to keep the clunker running) and burns far less fuel..and pollutes far less because of the improved emission standards and equip.

Where the hell are all the

when you need them?

 

[Buster]

This is just part of the Automakers Bailout , someone is going to pay for it, in some cases twice. Just pulled that out of my Wedgie!!

I can see where it appears to be part of the ORIGINAL AUTOMAKER BAILOUT...But as you know, FORD declined any bailout monies and therefore was excluded from any assistance....NOW however, this Cash for Clunker thing was just a fluke and a last minute idea that actually worked for all automakers, with huge results in the First weekend of the plan (I have to agree with Jimbo, I wish it was just for American car deals)..Dealerships are booming and employees are getting commissions again, service/parts departments are gearing up again, etc., etc.,..What?:blink:..wait a minute, that sounds like gainful employment...are you sure we aren't in the same book, but just on different pages?..:laugh: