Ask James48843

Bottom line for me on this issue: I don't care if he smokes. He should respect the White House and not do it inside, but other than that, smoke 'em if you got 'em Barry!
Eggzackly..
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I asked a hottie named Loretta once if she smoked after sex and she said she didn't know because she never looked.
 
It would be nice if they would offer a cash for furniture program - that would help out a few of my furniture stocks. A lot of these new cars will probably end up being repossed just like mortgage modifications haven't helped foreclosures. Some people deserve the clunkers they drive plain and simple.
 

Well, I look at it this way.

First, I wish it was only for American made cars. Or at least cars with at least 50% North American content. I am not in favor of a program that gives the same rebate for a Korean made Kia or Hyundai.

For nearly 200 years, this country had import tariffs to finance the federal government. It works just fine. A 15% import tariff on foreign cars is a fair price to pay in my opinion, to level the playing field against a country where the manufacturers have no medical health insurance bills to pay for their employees to build into the price.

Except when the House was debating limiting it to American content cars, the republicans spoke out about "free trade" and NAFTA laws, and World Trade violations. Republicans tried to stop the plan. So the Congress passed cash for clunkers without any American content restrictions.

I live in a place where unemployment is now 17.1% (Detroit area MSA is 17.1. Right next door is Flint MSA, with a current unemployment rate of 17.4%. See the facts at: http://www.milmi.org/admin/uploadedPublications/463_econsit.htm )

And, a month ago, I went into a local Pontiac Dealer, and talked to a salesman there.

I asked him how car sales were going, and he smiled weakly, and told me he sold two cars the week before. I asked him how many this week, and he said zero.

I was the only customer in the dealership.

I looked at a new ethanol flex-fuel G6, took it for a test drive. But I did nothing else. I didn't buy it.

That was on July 3rd.


Yesterday, I drove by the same dealership.

The local paper had an article in it, that said that the day before, that dealership sold 24 cars in one day.

So, you ask me- what do I think of cash for clunkers?

Well, if it brings people into the showroom, and allows them to sell 24 cars in one day, then that allows each of those salesmen to earn a living.

And now they will order more cars.

And that will mean that the local auto plant in Lake Orion, Michigan, which has been on a 9 week shutdown, and having laid off most of the workers, will be able to call back some workers and open up again. I think that is good. People working.

And since they will be building cars again, some of the auto suppliers in my local area will be able to reopen again. And put people back to work. In my area, that will be good.

Auto workers, working.

Auto supplier workers, working.

Auto dealers, working.

Money staring to flow in the economy. The autoworker then can buy other goods and services we need. That employs others. Now we start to put people back to work.

We spent what, about 800 billion, bailing out banks?

And what did that get us? Not a single job that I can see.

They reduced tax withholding, and sent out some $250 stimulus checks out there. What did that do for the economy? Not a whole lot.

But with a single billion in Cash for Clunkers- they got 24 people to buy a car in one day at one dealer here.

When the program was originally proposed in the House, the price tag was $4 billion. Republicans in the Senate mashed it down to one billion. Well, that only lasted a short time. Now the House is tossing two more billion at it, since it seems to work, has spurred a lot of sales, and is allowing the economy to move forward.

I'd say that is a better investment - those 3 billion total, than any of the other bailout money's proposed.

What's good for General Motors is good for the country. Charlie Wilson said that in 1954 to U.S. Senators, in the midst of a recession. It was true back then, and I think it is just as true today.

I believe that still holds true. A few billion into cash for clunkers will spur our economy out of the decline, and start us moving forward once again.

And I think that will be good.
 
> First, I wish it was only for American made cars. Or at least cars with at least 50% North American content.

> I'd say that is a better investment - those 3 billion total, than any of the other bailout money's proposed.

I generally agree with you and especially with your 2 above statements.

My main problems with C4Cs are:

1. Destroying the engine and the rest of the car. Cars are the most recycled consumer item in the US. Those parts could have been used for repairing other people's cars. This will definitely cause a shortage of car salvage parts and increase the costs for people who can't afford a new (or nearly new) car.

A lot of those are probably better cars than some people drive. (My main auto for the last year has been a early-90s Chevy truck that I bought for $2700 from a VW dealer where somebody traded it in & I'm surprised how much I love it).

2. It's the government subsidizing people who can afford (or some how got a loan) a new car. But no goody for people who can't afford or wants a new car.

3. Peter Schiff says that consumption has been our country's problem over the last 15 years. He says we should saving our money and producing goods that people in other countries will buy from us.
 
...Peter Schiff says that consumption has been our country's problem over the last 15 years. He says we should saving our money and producing goods that people in other countries will buy from us.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to agree with that.

The problem is...how do you get multi-national corporations to agree to produce manufactured goods in the United States, when the cost of labor, environmental compliance, etc, is far cheaper in Mexico, China, etc.

The answer is.....you have to organize and legalize labor unions in all those other countries, and bring them UP to American standards.

Our government policies over the last 30 years have been to bring America DOWN to those other country standards. It should be the other way around.

We should insist on fair trade, not just free trade. We should insist on the right for workers to organize labor unions in Mexico. We should insist on the human right to organize labor in Communist China. We should NOT be rewarding cheap Chinese labor, where workers earn pennies a day, and live in slum conditions.

Korea is starting to have a labor movement, but the laws are still in favor of multi-national corporations and not an even playing field for workers.

We need to see the same for China- movement away from the single communist party led organizations, and towards free and independent labor unions. Only then will we see a more level playing field, and the condition of all people raised up.
 
I generally agree with you and especially with your 2 above statements.

My main problems with C4Cs are:

1. Destroying the engine and the rest of the car. Cars are the most recycled consumer item in the US. Those parts could have been used for repairing other people's cars. This will definitely cause a shortage of car salvage parts and increase the costs for people who can't afford a new (or nearly new) car.

A lot of those are probably better cars than some people drive. (My main auto for the last year has been a early-90s Chevy truck that I bought for $2700 from a VW dealer where somebody traded it in & I'm surprised how much I love it).

...

The cars ARE being recycled.

There will be no shortage of salvage parts- this will HELP the salvage market.

Where on earth did you get the idea that the parts were not going to be recycled?


Here is a press release from the Automotive Recycler Association, talking about how CASH FOR CLUNKERS will be supported, and how the parts from cars turned in are to be recycled:
http://www.a-r-a.org/files/ARA CARS Press Release 7 10 2009.pdf

===========================================

Professional Automotive Recyclers Stand Ready to Process 'CARS' Trade-in Vehicles

MANASSAS, Va., July 13 /PRNewswire/ -- With automobile dealerships around the country heavily marketing to the consumer the benefits of the "clunker" trade-in under the federal government "Car Allowance Rebate System" (CARS) program in hopes to boost sales, there may be some question as to what happens to those tens of thousands of vehicles that are expected to be received for new, more environmentally efficient ones. Consumers and dealerships can rest assured that professional automotive recyclers throughout the United States are poised and ready to process those vehicles, and handle them according to the rules set forth under the CARS program to achieve the highest of environmental standards. With protecting the environment being a major component in this legislation, recycling these vehicles is the next logical step.

The automotive recycling industry is dedicated to the efficient removal and reuse of "green" automotive parts, and the proper recycling of inoperable motor vehicles. With strong participation in best-in-class programs such as the Certified Automotive Recycler program and other partnerships, members of the Automotive Recyclers Association (ARA) provide consumers with quality, low-cost alternatives for vehicle replacement parts, while preserving our environment for a "greener" tomorrow.

"ARA-member automotive recyclers stand ready to maximize the recycled parts, reuse in an environmentally sound way and get the vehicle through to the scrap process efficiently and effectively," says Michael Wilson, ARA executive vice president. "ARA members have access to the most current environmental regulations, as required by the Environmental Protection Agency and other local and state agencies, and we encourage members to uphold, and even surpass, those standards while processing retired cars. Furthermore, our members will provide the best possible service to all parties - peace of mind for the consumer trading in a car, speed of service to the dealership requiring help with vehicle disposal, and excellence in customer service to potential buyers of recycled parts - all the way to processing the vehicle for scrap."

Not all Americans can afford a new vehicle even with CARS benefits. With trade-ins processed through professional automotive recyclers, the availability of recycled parts to keep other vehicles operable is secured. American consumers and automobile repair businesses purchase these quality recycled vehicle components every day to keep vehicles running. They rely on parts from recycled vehicles because of their substantial savings in reduced repair costs and lower insurance premiums, savings from the purchase of a replacement vehicle, and also for the strong environmental benefits, including the conservation of natural resources that would otherwise be used to make new replacement parts.

The industry, predominantly comprised of small business facilities, responds to the economic and environmental challenge of recycling these vehicles. Rather than merely crushing wrecked, abandoned, or disabled automobiles, today's auto recycler maximizes a car's true market value, and gives new life through the reuse of parts to other vehicles that might otherwise be inoperable.

Established in 1943, the Automotive Recyclers Association ("ARA") represents over 4,500 auto recycling facilities in the United States and fourteen other countries around the world. To locate professional automotive recyclers to help dealerships dispose of trade-ins or from whom consumers can purchase recycled parts, ARA provides an online membership directory at www.a-r-a.org.
 
The cars ARE being recycled.

There will be no shortage of salvage parts- this will HELP the salvage market.

Where on earth did you get the idea that the parts were not going to be recycled?

They are being crushed and sold as scrap metal (that will be recycled). They are NOT allowed to remain as car parts. They won't be around to be used as a replacement bumper or a tire rim or a rear bumper. In the future non-wealthy people's cars will be totaled because there no used body parts to fix it with.
 
They are being crushed and sold as scrap metal (that will be recycled). They are NOT allowed to remain as car parts. They won't be around to be used as a replacement bumper or a tire rim or a rear bumper. In the future non-wealthy people's cars will be totaled because there no used body parts to fix it with.

That is not correct, and I have no idea where you are hearing that.
First of all, a bumper can be disassembled off the turn-in under the law, as can be a tire rim. The ONLY thing specified in the law is that the complete engine cannot be reused. That is one of the points of the law- to get older, less fuel efficient motors out of the system. As far as transmission parts, or rear end parts, or fenders, or bumpers, or anything else, there is no change to the rules, and this will actually mean an INCREASE in the number of "spare parts" floating around the system.


The dealer handling the trade in may take and recycle any part,EXCEPT the engine block itself. The engine is the only thing that is required to be scrapped.

Here is the language from the law:

"(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A) may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from-
(i)selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts."


The wording is "Nothing ..to preclude a person ..from selling any parts..."

Here is a link to the law: http://www.cars.gov/files/CARS-Law.pdf


Where are you getting your information that parts cannot be recycled?
 
That is not correct, and I have no idea where you are hearing that.
First of all, a bumper can be disassembled off the turn-in under the law, as can be a tire rim. The ONLY thing specified in the law is that the complete engine cannot be reused. That is one of the points of the law- to get older, less fuel efficient motors out of the system. As far as transmission parts, or rear end parts, or fenders, or bumpers, or anything else, there is no change to the rules, and this will actually mean an INCREASE in the number of "spare parts" floating around the system.


The dealer handling the trade in may take and recycle any part,EXCEPT the engine block itself. The engine is the only thing that is required to be scrapped.

Here is the language from the law:

"(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A) may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from-
(i)selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts."


The wording is "Nothing ..to preclude a person ..from selling any parts..."

Here is a link to the law: http://www.cars.gov/files/CARS-Law.pdf


Where are you getting your information that parts cannot be recycled?
My wife wanted to see if her '02 exploder qualified for the rebate. The Chrysler dealer said they are required to pour sand in with the oil and run the engine until it seizes.
 
For the record..they (Dealers) are require to disable the engine only, by pouring in "Liquid Glass" after the oil has been drained first..Liquid Glass is a Coolant additive to stop leaks..it works very well in trashing an engine if used in the crankcase oil...On top of the Rebates voucher, Dealers are suppose to also subtract from the price of the NEW car, whatever they get for the Scrap price of the clunker metal weight.

I'm taking in a WWII Sherman tank..
 
There are many less fortunate folks out there that need transportation - why not give them these clunkers. This would help some looking for work to get around. This stupid policy is wasting good assets that still have viable benefits for the less fortunate and younger workers - we can live with a little air polution. The elites are fools.
 
There are many less fortunate folks out there that need transportation - why not give them these clunkers. This would help some looking for work to get around. This stupid policy is wasting good assets that still have viable benefits for the less fortunate and younger workers - we can live with a little air polution. The elites are fools.
Because they don't just give out thiese clunkers..Is that they are for the most part, barely driveable and safe to be on the road anyway..I don't want my insurance rates going up more to cover their accidents in those rolling death traps....course, the crappy economy they get would be also be counter productive to these POOR FOLKs who already don't have enough to afford a bus ticket, let alone trying to keep a gas guzzler running...
 
3. Peter Schiff says that consumption has been our country's problem over the last 15 years. He says we should saving our money and producing goods that people in other countries will buy from us.
Yeah, I heard him make the point that we are a nation who spends well above our means, which is what got us in trouble, yet this program pushes people to sell workable, fully paid for, vehicles, to trade them in for another big loan.
 
I sure wish I could buy one of those sweet clunkers. Good assets being wasted. I buy nothing but used vehicles and now they are artificially drying up the used car market with tax payer money so that a tax payer owned company like GM can sell cars and give out bonuses. Brilliant!

And, I'm screwed because all the "clunkers" increased in value due to low supply.

Thank you Congress and Mr. President for screwing my not once but three times. GM bailout, consumer bailout, and for artificially effecting the market.

When will government stay out of free enterprise?
 
yeah, i heard him make the point that we are a nation who spends well above our means, which is what got us in trouble, yet this program pushes people to sell workable, fully paid for, vehicles, to trade them in for another big loan.


bingo!
 
In my State you have to pass a safety inspection. If they drove them into the dealer, they are safe. What makes them unsafe? Brakes, tires, turn and brake lights, head light, wipers, seat belts. Doesn't have to be pretty or new, just functional.

Because they don't just give out thiese clunkers..Is that they are for the most part, barely driveable and safe to be on the road anyway..I don't want my insurance rates going up more to cover their accidents in those rolling death traps....course, the crappy economy they get would be also be counter productive to these POOR FOLKs who already don't have enough to afford a bus ticket, let alone trying to keep a gas guzzler running...
 
And, what you want to bet they are just drying up inventory and no blue collar folks will get hired back.

Two thirds consumer driven economy has got to have a job.
 
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