Playing the I fund

[Gilligan]

I will be away from the computer for most of the day. Its too early to give a good estimate, the Pacific index looks to be up +1.0% which is a third of the EAFE and the dollar is lower this morning.

 

[airlift]

Hi Gilligan, Did they do a FV yesterday?

I will be away from the computer for most of the day. Its too early to give a good estimate, the Pacific index looks to be up +1.0% which is a third of the EAFE and the dollar is lower this morning.

 

[The_Technician]

I will be away from the computer for most of the day. Its too early to give a good estimate, the Pacific index looks to be up +1.0% which is a third of the EAFE and the dollar is lower this morning.

I have been working on a I fund approximation (calculating an LC approximation) for the last couple of days, wasn't far off yesterday, one or two pennies so I'll try to step up to the plate for ya Gilligan while your are gone........but remember all, its only in its second day of trials.....so the result will be off some but will hold a general trend on the outset....if I could just get the LC data earlier on I could get it right on....

AT the moment I figure we're in for a few pennies to the plus side....that's counting a -0.05 FV (if that is correct) that I figure that is left over from the 0.11 we got the other day....

 

[nnuut]

The "I" fund is killin' me! I'm going to start calling it the IDIOT FUND if it keeps this up. :nuts:

 

[The_Technician]

The "I" fund is killin' me! I'm going to start calling it the IDIOT FUND if it keeps this up. :nuts:

The FTSE just went negative some...put a bit of a hurt on the I fund for today...maybe a penny worse off, but I figure so far we are up for the day....been all morning, even with the rest of Europe down earlier on....dollar action is in our favor....

 

[nnuut]

Yea, but I'm bailing to the "G", have to make my decision a little earlier today, DENTAL APPOINTMENT, but you know I like the pain, you see how long I've been hanging-in-there! :nuts:

 

[mlk_man]

I think the I fund will be up about 6 cents today.

 

[nnuut]

+.06, that's not enough, I want my .30 back!

 

[Griffin]

.....result will be off some that's counting a -0.05 FV (if that is correct) that I figure that is left over from the 0.11 we got the other day....

On 12 sep the EAFE was up .665% and the I went up 1.22%
On 13 Sep the EAFE was up .208% and the I went down .30%

By my math the EAFE went up .873% and the I went up .92% over the last two days, thats a .047% difference....I would call that even.

 

[mlk_man]

+.06, that's not enough, I want my .30 back!

Just let it go man....................

 

[The_Technician]

It looks like without any LC or FV considered we could be up about .09 due to the dollar losing strength…..-0.44%

The LC I calculate (this is the second day trying this and is not as accurate as Gilligans) is to the positive even with the Eurozone down, it seems to cancel out the FV of -.05 or so we may be expecting to be applied today….

So I would expect a plus of approx 9-10 cents +- 2 cents today….keep in mind that I was off by 2 cents yesterday due mainly to the recently developed LC calculation that is not trued and tried enough…..

C fund is down .02, S fund is down .05 so far today….

 

[Fivetears]

Sep 2001 - 9.95% WTC
Sep 2002 - 10.75% WTC Anniversary Fear? Anthrax?
Sep 2003 - 3.08%
Sep 2004 - 2.05%
Sep 2005 - 3.86%
Sep 2006 - or

If the I follows pattern, we've got no room to go but up from here; IMdumb moneyHO.
Either Case... I See Green.

 

[Wheels]

Hi Gilligan, Did they do a FV yesterday?

..that's counting a -0.05 FV (if that is correct) that I figure that is left over from the 0.11 we got the other day....

By my math the EAFE went up .873% and the I went up .92% over the last two days, thats a .047% difference....I would call that even.

I'm with Griffin. The FV was two days ago, the correction (not an FV) was yesterday. We should now be even.

 

[Pilgrim]

From the tsp.gov website:

Participants have asked why, on some days, the change in the I Fund share price reported by the TSP does not match the change reported for the Morgan Stanley EAFE (Europe, Australasia, Far East) index, which the I Fund tracks. This happens when the Board's investment manager, Barclays Global Investors (BGI) reprices its EAFE Equity Index Fund, in which the TSP invests, after the close of the foreign markets. This process, known as "fair valuation" or "fair value pricing" occurs when there are large U.S. market or currency movements between the time the foreign markets close and 4:00 p.m. eastern time, when BGI's share prices are determined.

We all understand why they do FVs when there are currency moves after markets close, but I still don't understand why they should make an adjustment to the EAFE index when U.S. stocks move sharply in the afternoon. I have been looking at the makeup of some of the major foreign in stock indexes and I don't see the same companies that are listed on U.S. indexes. Apart from "why", there is the question of "how much." If, for example, the U.S. market rallies late this afternoon, how would our I fund experts estimate the resulting effect on the bottom line?

 

[airlift]

I am still in a maze of confusion. For months I have been reading the posts of many of you who are as confused as I am... I wouldn't know whom to contact for effectiveness anyway. But it seems to me that a basic respect for the opinions of TSP holders who have so many millions in retirement funds being managed by Barclays Global, would be sufficient cause to provoke an explanation by the powers that be.

We all understand why they do FVs when there are currency moves after markets close, but I still don't understand why they should make an adjustment to the EAFE index when U.S. stocks move sharply in the afternoon. I have been looking at the makeup of some of the major foreign in stock indexes and I don't see the same companies that are listed on U.S. indexes. Apart from "why", there is the question of "how much." If, for example, the U.S. market rallies late this afternoon, how would our I fund experts estimate the resulting effect on the bottom line?

 

[SkyPilot]

I am not really sure that the Barclays takes into account the moves of the markets outside of those stocks that are represented in the EAFE.

I understand that they take into account substantial moves of the EAFE and the USD after the foriegn markets close.

In effect, the EAFE is traded "after hours" when the foriegn markets close, and this is what they adjust and account for along with the value of the USD, so as to keep traders from taking advantage of stale prices.

However, it is still quite confusing (therefore, I could be quite off the target here) and a more complete, detailed and authoritive explanation for TSP participants from the TSP board would be appreciated.

 

[sugarandspice]

+.722%= .14 cents today


FV is also used according to TSP to discourage short term traders from market timing.

 

[The_Technician]

I just got the LC....0.19%, USD was down .44% at 11:00, which makes the I 19.92 I believe without any FV....but if you use the USD of .722% its 19.93...so go figure....

With my calculated LC I would have been at 19.93 without an FV (.09 + .05=+.14), .01 cents off maybe

 

[nnuut]

Just let it go man....................

NEVER, Never!! Not a penny!

 

[Wheels]

I am still in a maze of confusion...... But it seems to me that a basic respect for the opinions of TSP holders who have so many millions in retirement funds being managed by Barclays Global, would be sufficient cause to provoke an explanation by the powers that be.

I am not really sure that the Barclays takes into account the moves of the markets outside of those stocks that are represented in the EAFE.

I understand that they take into account substantial moves of the EAFE and the USD after the foriegn markets close.

In effect, the EAFE is traded "after hours" when the foriegn markets close, and this is what they adjust and account for along with the value of the USD, so as to keep traders from taking advantage of stale prices.

However, it is still quite confusing (therefore, I could be quite off the target here) and a more complete, detailed and authoritive explanation for TSP participants from the TSP board would be appreciated.

The EAFE is not traded after hours. EFA is traded after hours. Subtle difference. Large moves in U.S stocks, after the EAFE has closed, are taken into account when determining FVs.

I believe we've gotten as much explanation as we are going to get. Sky, you said it yourself. The whole point is to keep us "traders" from having an advantage over the "buy and holders". If Barclays were to lay out all of their criteria, and thoroughly explain exactly when and why the apply FV, then us "traders" will have gained an advantage again.