oleg850's Account Talk

DUST.jpgNUGT.jpg

Yesterday I mentioned I would do a post demonstrating how terrible of a long term investment vehicle NUGT/DUST are, so here it is. I have attached 5 year weekly charts of NUGT and DUST. The earlier prices have all been adjusted for the multiple reverse splits that these ETF's are routinely subjected to. Taking one glance at the chart, you can see that they are nowhere near linear inverses of one another, and are both subjected to some serious time decay bleed. Using the raw numbers to calculate % gain/loss, buying NUGT at its debut on 12/6/2010 (at $1963.5) and holding through present day ($46.39) would have resulted in a net loss of 97.6%. Conversely, buying DUST at its inception on 12/6/2010 (at $20.24) and holding through present day ($36.50) would have resulted in a paltry gain of only 80.3%. That's a bleed of 17% in less than 3 years. Also, consider the timely debut of this ETF pair, when the media was pumping up gold as the asset that could not depreciate. Interesting that less than 9 months later, gold started down a major correction and fell into a bear market. Something to consider if you find yourself taking on large positions in these ETF's or are hesitant to sell an underwater position for a loss. Unlike conventional un-leveraged stocks or ETF's, these trading vehicles are unforgiving and do not have the virtue of time on their side. It is possible to hold a conventional stock or ETF long enough for it to recover and become profitable, (hence the effectiveness of buy and hold investing). It is nearly impossible to accomplish this feat with leveraged ETF's such as these. In the seldom case that i do trade these vehicles, it is always for short periods of time (less than a month) using only very small position sizes (less than 5% of total available capital).

Food for thought..
 
SUBJECT: NUGT vs DUST

I've made some outstanding profits in DUST, recently and in the past. I actually feel safer in DUST than NUGT. DUST is more in a uptrend like equities (Long). Therefore, when "Long" trading is announced, DUST seems to trend upward (most of the time) because money flows out of metals into equities.
 
Oleg,

Since some of us are following your trade in NUGT and the target is $60.00, what are your thoughts how this trade is heading through this fog in congress? (By-the-way, there's another system I use that gave a "buy" for Gold/Silver/NUGT today which might give some encouragement for this trade...)
 
Oleg,

Since some of us are following your trade in NUGT and the target is $60.00, what are your thoughts how this trade is heading through this fog in congress? (By-the-way, there's another system I use that gave a "buy" for Gold/Silver/NUGT today which might give some encouragement for this trade...)

NUGT is purely a spec play, super small position, so I'm not overly preoccupied about it. It's been trading in a $45-$55 range all week, and shouldn't take much to propel it up towards $60, we just need a short covering rally, and that usually requires fear. You would think that a decline in equities would lead to a rise in gold/miners, as the metals are often considered hedge plays against equities, but that hasn't always been the case, particularly recently. The political debacles are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned since I don't trade the news. If you are worrying about it, your position size is too big, IMHO. Besides, I thought you were a pro with NUGT/DUST trades? ;)
 
NUGT is purely a spec play, super small position, so I'm not overly preoccupied about it. It's been trading in a $45-$55 range all week, and shouldn't take much to propel it up towards $60, we just need a short covering rally, and that usually requires fear. You would think that a decline in equities would lead to a rise in gold/miners, as the metals are often considered hedge plays against equities, but that hasn't always been the case, particularly recently. The political debacles are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned since I don't trade the news. If you are worrying about it, your position size is too big, IMHO. Besides, I thought you were a pro with NUGT/DUST trades? ;)

With a 5% available capital, it's still a lot of money. My knees are not knocking yet! Like I said before, NUGT is the down trend. But does have some perks. Which reminds me to set the coffeemaker. :nuts:

Thanks for the reply!
 
Oleg,
What does this avatar mean?

Oleg850.png

I don't have a clue...
(Is it PACMAN in disguise?)​
 
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System Update:

Both trending and indicator systems remain in CASH going into next week. Have a great weekend everyone!
 
System Update:

My indicator system fired off a LONG (Buy) signal as of COB today. The trending system will remain in cash until at least Friday. Good day!
 
=oleg850;426160]System Update:

My indicator system fired off a LONG (Buy) signal as of COB today. The trending system will remain in cash until at least Friday. Good day!

Thank you Oleg,
Noting your system and other indicators, I'm feeling a little more comfortable going long COB today.
 
FYI,

I took a discretionary trade late this afternoon in XIV ($22.98). The trade is mostly technically based and has an intermediate term outlook (2-3 months), likely through the Santa Rally and into the seasonally bullish month of January. XIV is an inverse VIX ETF which does not bleed out like TVIX or UVXY. It rises when the VIX falls and benefits from the compounding effect of contango in the VIX futures structure. I'll do a detailed post on VIX contango/backwardation in the future, but in the meantime I figured I would give everyone interested a heads up. It's a bit risky given the current political climate, but to me those risks are mitigated by the resilience of the recent bull market and the robustness of XIV as a value retaining ETF. Appropriate position sizing (less than 10%) is a prerequisite, just as with any other discretionary trade. Expect some volatility in volatility for the remainder of this week and into the next.
 
Doubled down my NUGT position on a pierce of $40. I will continue to hold for the $60 price target, but will likely take partial profits at $50.
 
Brave. It's been bleeding relentlessly for 2 years. Still, on the off chance it rebounds, hummmm.

Long term play, and $ i don't mind losing.
 
Brave. It's been bleeding relentlessly for 2 years. Still, on the off chance it rebounds, hummmm.

Long term play, and $ i don't mind losing.

If you read through my earlier posts in this thread, you will get a better idea of my outlook on NUGT and overall risk management strategy. NUGT/DUST are terrible long term investment vehicles. I'll hold my position for no longer than 1 month. If my price targets are not hit in that time frame, I will cut my losses and move on to the next trade.
 
Oleg850,

Referring to your "Trending System" tomorrow (Friday) is the day your coming out of cash and to buy SSO/TNA. Do you buy "Pre, Regular, Closing or After" market for these trades?
 
Oleg, r u taking partial profits on ur xiv trade? Right now its comfortably above 5% of ur buyin price

I'm personally not taking partial profits as this is an intermediate term hold trade. I'm looking at $29 and beyond as an exit, which is why I'm willing to be patient and let time do the work for me.
 
Oleg850,

Referring to your "Trending System" tomorrow (Friday) is the day your coming out of cash and to buy SSO/TNA. Do you buy "Pre, Regular, Closing or After" market for these trades?

I won't know if my trending system will issue a BUY signal tomorrow until the close. It may stay in cash for another week, tomorrow is just the earliest day it is able to issue a buy. If it fires off a buy, I will execute the trades in AH following tomorrow's close.
 
System Update:

Barring a major sell off into the close, my trending system will go LONG at COB today. It will join my indicator system, which will remain long over the weekend.

Thanks!
 
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