MrJohnRoss' Account Talk

[vic]

I will gladly pay you on Tuesday, for a hamburger today

 

[MaStA]

and what is even more ridiculous is that Mars will reduce the size of the candy bar and still charge the same price. Have you all noticed that cereal boxes and ice cream cartons have gotten smaller? Very few brands still sell a half gallon such as Blue Bunny, but most have gone to that 1.75 qt (or whatever it is).

Either way there is too much intervention in my life as it is...they just need to focus on fixing things that matter instead of intruding MORE into people's lives.

but that's just my opinion...

 

[Warrenlm]

Well, excuse me for being Captain Obvious but...are you describing yourself, myself (and basically everyone here employed by the gov't)?

- The gov't employs you, in turn that money feeds you...Gov't helps feed your children by getting thousands of your tax dollars back by claiming them as "dependents".
- The gov't helps house you (by making your mortgage interest tax deductible).
- The gov't gives sends you off on 4 weeks vacation after 3 years service...5 weeks after 15 years ala European workers.
- The gov't gives you health care...basically covers 2/3rds of your premium (and gives another 20-30% tax deduction for your 3rd) in a strictly federally regulated FEHB that requires insururs to meet the highest coverage standards.
- The gov't also set up medical spending accounts where you get 20-30% of your money back via tax deductions for any medical spending not covered in your Federal Health Benefits Plan.

You got me on the flat screen though!
That one my bank will get me with all the Credit Card Points I've earned.

1. Originally Posted by FireWeatherMet http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/economy/10107-congressional-supercommittee-post338515.html#post338515
​

You work for the government, right?

...throw out a thanks to Uncle Sam for taking care of you.
Well, well, well. You certainly have a different self image from the others around here and virtually all of your federal service colleagues. We believe that we are making decisions to trade our labor, creativity, energy, loyalty, etc. in return for a compensation package, as other self-respecting people do. Whether one is in the private sector serving on corporate boards or as employees or as owners, or in the public sector, as employees of the government or other entity, we offer our talents in return for something. To the contrary, you have the self image that you are being “taken care of” by the government. There are many like you in the world. Just not as many in the USA. And those that are have been taught to devote their energy to seeking “benefits” from “programs”. What a group you associate yourself with.

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/economy/10107-congressional-supercommittee-6.html#post338624

Some require repeated explanations.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/economy/10107-congressional-supercommittee-6.html#post338624

Some require repeated explanations.

Just to put a link directly to your post, for some reason copy-paste didn't work on your link... sorry
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/economy/10107-congressional-supercommittee-4.html#post338624

 

[Mapper]

Everyone seems to think the country is failing, meanwhile overall quality of life in the US is phenomenal. We've now got a country of complainers who enjoy lavish and luxury beyond the wildest dreams of our forebears. Four bedroom three bath houses are commonplace here. Roughly 100 years ago much of the nation was still without electricity!

We all got lazy. NO ONE seems to want to pull their weight anymore; be it through labor OR tax rates necessary to fund the government programs we all use. Instead we finger wave at all the other countries trying to learn from our mis-steps.

 

[SteelSaving]

Well, excuse me for being Captain Obvious but...are you describing yourself, myself (and basically everyone here employed by the gov't)?

- The gov't employs you, in turn that money feeds you...Gov't helps feed your children by getting thousands of your tax dollars back by claiming them as "dependents".
- The gov't helps house you (by making your mortgage interest tax deductible).
- The gov't gives sends you off on 4 weeks vacation after 3 years service...5 weeks after 15 years ala European workers.
- The gov't gives you health care...basically covers 2/3rds of your premium (and gives another 20-30% tax deduction for your 3rd) in a strictly federally regulated FEHB that requires insururs to meet the highest coverage standards.
- The gov't also set up medical spending accounts where you get 20-30% of your money back via tax deductions for any medical spending not covered in your Federal Health Benefits Plan.

You got me on the flat screen though!
That one my bank will get me with all the Credit Card Points I've earned.

I could probably spend a few pages responding to this, but for the sake of brevity, I thought I'd bold the important points of your post.

 

[Mapper]

RMI, I just had a lengthy discussion with my wife about Greece, and how America is headed down the same road. It's just a matter of time until Spain, Italy, Portugal... then all of the EU... the the U.S. catches up with our debt problems. We'll all end up in the same rotting boat together. This is not going to end well, I'm afraid. God help us. (That's not a statement. That's a prayer.)

If we follow the doctrine of austerity, reduced spending in the face of high unemployment, we may well end up in a similar predicament. This is what the history of macro economics has taught us, see Herbert Hoover. Or, more recently, see Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Britain. Macro economics should not be considered similarly as personal finance; but why let history or pesky information get in the way of dogma.

 

[SteelSaving]

If we follow the doctrine of austerity, reduced spending in the face of high unemployment, we may well end up in a similar predicament. This is what the history of macro economics has taught us, see Herbert Hoover. Or, more recently, see Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Britain. Macro economics should not be considered similarly as personal finance; but why let history or pesky information get in the way of dogma.

History taught us that a world war did what Hoover AND FDR couldn't do.
All we need is for Russia and/or China to get in the middle of the Iran mess and bingo, our country goes on a roll again.

 

[MrJohnRoss]

If we follow the doctrine of austerity, reduced spending in the face of high unemployment, we may well end up in a similar predicament. This is what the history of macro economics has taught us, see Herbert Hoover. Or, more recently, see Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Britain. Macro economics should not be considered similarly as personal finance; but why let history or pesky information get in the way of dogma.

Yes, it seems we've painted ourselves in a corner as a nation, haven't we? If we slash spending (like we know we need to), then it will throw our economy into a depression. On the other hand, if we keep printing money to paper over our problems, we know that eventually our currency and credit becomes worthless.

As I try to explain to my wife... If we made $100K a year, but spent $200K a year, and we did this year after year after year, and ran up our credit cards to $1M in debt, would adding another credit card solve our problems??? That's in effect what our gubment is doing. It wouldn't be long before we couldn't even afford the INTEREST on our debt. God help us when interest rates rise (when our credit becomes worthless).

What's amazing to me is to think about this... The smartest men on the planet have brought us to this point, whether by design or by unintended consequences. Either way, this will not end well, and I see no way out.

 

[Mapper]

My comment wasn't about WWII, it was about what Hoover's and European's policies of austerity did. They are outdated concepts in macro economics.

I certainly wouldn't speculate that another war would be a boon to our economy. We had a war in Iraq and a populace and legislators that refused to financially support it in the same way the nation supported WWII. I certainly didn't see much clamoring for war bonds OR the post war taxes; which makes today's bitching about tax rates rather comedic.

 

[Bquat]

This look like an execellent weekend or aftermarket conversation, but right now is the best time of day to give your educated quesses of what the market may do . This way more guys have more opinions for their IFT choices. Then at 12 pm eastern continue on. Sorry just a heads up. I think the market is at a critical point at this moment and I'm picking up. Your guess?

 

[Mapper]

The bull has more time to run. I added to my long positions today and continue to hold 100S DCAing every payday into equities.

 

[MrJohnRoss]

This look like an execellent weekend or aftermarket conversation, but right now is the best time of day to give your educated quesses of what the market may do . This way more guys have more opinions for their IFT choices. Then at 12 pm eastern continue on. Sorry just a heads up. I think the market is at a critical point at this moment and I'm picking up. Your guess?

The market still looks pretty strong to me. No one knows where or when the exact top will be. It will be interesting to see how the market plays out this week.

 

[Bquat]

Thanks guys. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just know this site is growing and there's a lot more new people that are making their decisions in this time frame and everyone need to keep the eye on the ball hopefully in the hour before the deadline to give them heads up to make better decisions. Even post contrary to mine I enjoy also because there are things others see that I don't. So pardon my interuption and continue the conversation. Team effort again tomorrow.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

The biggest economic fallicy is that "war" got us out of the Great Depression.
What WWII was on the American side...was our biggest Gov't Stimulus Plan ever...on a GDP/inflation scale, kind of like combining QE1, QE2, and a QE3...4...5 to boot. Thats what got us out of our mess. The result was that by the end of WWII we had low unemployment, but a gov't national debt at a bigger ratio per GDP than we do today.
At that point...income taxes were raised on everyone (up to 90% for the top 1%) and military spending was severely reduced. The result was tremendous economic expansion thru the 1950's and we GREW our way out of the debt. We were well on our way to repeating this in the 1990's but then...

Bernanke luckily is a student of the Great Depression and we are fortunate to have him and Geithner in there instead of the ECB chiefs. They should kick Greece out now while they still can.

Again, we have to agree to disagree because you believe the ONLY way to fix our problems is to raise taxes; I don't.

 

[nasa1974]

If looking at personal debt the biggest way you will reduce that debt is by reducing your spending. But that might not get you totally out of debt or may take years that could strain a family relationship. If you’re lucky you might be able to get a second job. But you would still need to keep your spending to a minimum to continue to get out of debt.
A government cannot depend solely on reducing spending to get out of debt. A second job has to be found (taxes on people or business or both) A government will never get out of debt by reduced spending alone. There are some things that have to be maintained or family relationships will suffer and the infrastructure will collapse. Just like any family there are emergencies that strain the budget and on the government side they are on a much larger scale. The politicians have to stop saying my way or the highway. I don't mind sacrificing a little if everyone is sacrificing a little.

We have to do this as Americans not as democrats or republicans and show the world how it is done.

 

[RealMoneyIssues]

If looking at personal debt the biggest way you will reduce that debt is by reducing your spending. But that might not get you totally out of debt or may take years that could strain a family relationship. If you’re lucky you might be able to get a second job. But you would still need to keep your spending to a minimum to continue to get out of debt.
A government cannot depend solely on reducing spending to get out of debt. A second job has to be found (taxes on people or business or both) A government will never get out of debt by reduced spending alone. There are some things that have to be maintained or family relationships will suffer and the infrastructure will collapse. Just like any family there are emergencies that strain the budget and on the government side they are on a much larger scale. The politicians have to stop saying my way or the highway. I don't mind sacrificing a little if everyone is sacrificing a little.

We have to do this as Americans not as democrats or republicans and show the world how it is done.

I disagree on one point, I reduced my spending which EXACTLY what got me out of debt.

Now, to your point about raising revenues; I agree, ONCE spending is reduced to below our revenue level OR below our revenue level plus reasonable tax increases...

My point is that spending is always the last thing to be addressed. It's always... we must tax, Tax, TAX !!! not funny

 

[Birchtree]

I'd be glad to pound peanuts for 99 weeks of unemployment and do nothing else. There is no incentive for the welfare crowd to seek employment, ever.

 

[nasa1974]

I disagree on one point, I reduced my spending which EXACTLY what got me out of debt. That's great that it worked for you and it is possible on a personal scale.

Now, to your point about raising revenues; I agree, ONCE spending is reduced to below our revenue level OR below our revenue level plus reasonable tax increases...

My point is that spending is always the last thing to be addressed. It's always... we must tax, Tax, TAX !!! not funny

On a personal level it can be done. It just depends on how deep the debt is and how much time it will take.

From the government side I agree that tax, tax, tax is not the solution because if you do not reduce spending you get nowhere but deeper into debt. If you do both responsibly then it should work.

 

[FAAM]

Just a little jump-in reallity check from the peanut-gallery...
I believe the record shows that we are at multi-generation LOWs on Federal tax rates across the board, for most if not all sectors (personal income-tax, Corporate, etc.). If, as posed, the 1st options are always tax-tax-tax, then rates would be way huge by now, especially with impactful events on the order of the way huge cost for Iraq-Conflict (about $1-trillion), and big hit in lost revenues for the near-depression, and big-bank bailouts due to weakening of related federal regulation for that industry & very little enforcement of same. Seems there's ample room & justification of some "revenue enhancement" along with spending-reductions -- in a balanced, coordinated solution.