JTH's Account Talk

Margin has its perks, but is not absolutely necessary for pattern day trading.

Just my 2 cents on the issue of day-trading: I know a very intelligent guy who says he tried his hand at this ... and lost $80,000 (almost all of the cash assets he started with) in about 6 months. True story. He warned me off it when I talked with him a couple years ago about maybe trying my hand at day-trading in retirement. ... Well, I'm retired for about a year now and grateful for HIS experience. Doing just fine with swing trading. No need to mess with that.
 
...Have you (or others) made some sort of comparison in this area as to the risk/reward issue?...

Userque,

This is interesting to explore. I knew it was not the usual day trading that requires a special software, but I think a pattern recognition system in order to scalp the market. Don't you think that this can be done in a recognized upside, without using margin, but by using sufficient funds in an IRA. Perhaps 1/3 of your available cash. Example, surprises aside; if a bounce is expected today and the major indexes open in a gap-up, you can weigh the possibilities of TNA coming down a bit (you buy in an intraday low, and you place a limit order to sell at a price where the daily patterns allow to get out within the probable range and reasonable 1% or 2% gain and then out).

This is sort of trading is based on probabilities. Yes, you have to keep watching and ready to pull the trigger. True, it is a ball park pattern recognition trading without using software, but watching the market with a real-time daily chart of TNA - "as flying by the seat of your pants style"; but based on the most likely probability that the bounce is occurring. Of course, you have to calculate the amount of cash that clears the fees and gives a profit. The bounce should be sustainable at least during the morning so that you can clear the deck, make a profit, and get out. Not saying that one should risk all the funds, but part of the funds; thereby, you can build the IRA over time, leaving the bulk of the funds in a more conservative mode, which may include Major indexes, stocks and bonds. All bets are off, if global issues or other unexpected surprise interferes with your assumption of the bounce being the more probable result. Please give me your opinion. Tia.

I also find this interesting. 'Pattern Day Trader' has a specific meaning with regard to the SEC and doesn't actually have to do with chart patterns :) Even so, more correctly than I previously suggested, I believe it only refers to margin accounts, which IRA's aren't, typically. What I was actually thinking about when I mentioned it was 'Free Riding!'

Trading in IRA accounts, and avoiding “free riding” - Six Figure Investing

Simply, you have to wait three trading days before you can sell what you buy.

(Using probabilities based trading strategies sounds interesting...)

You've received some good advice on day trading a non-IRA account, but regarding what you asked about initially, I don't think you can scalp in an IRA.

In my off-the-cuff opinion,
Que
 
userque,

Scottrade released me from the 3-day rule in my IRA, even though there is no margin with the IRA. However, if that were the problem you can use 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3. You can buy and sell the same day but then after you sell, the3-day rule would apply. That was the explanation I received.

airlift,

Right, in part,

That's why I first mentioned special 'IRA' accounts. I put 'margin' in quotes to note that it is not really margin.

"you would need a 'special' type of 'margin' IRA"

However, the 3-day rule does apply after you buy. Once you sell after 3 days, you can immediately buy again. You have to hold for three days (outside of those 'special' accounts).

Que;)
 
Does anyone feel that the bounce is sustainable? Nasdaq a leading index is a bit positive, NDX, and SPX are making a comeback though slightly positive; however, DJT, also a leading index is still negative.
 
Does anyone feel that the bounce is sustainable? Nasdaq a leading index is a bit positive, NDX, and SPX are making a comeback though slightly positive; however, DJT, also a leading index is still negative.

I see blood in the streets.:worried:
 
Userque,

This is interesting to explore. I knew it was not the usual day trading that requires a special software, but I think a pattern recognition system in order to scalp the market. Don't you think that this can be done in a recognized upside, without using margin, but by using sufficient funds in an IRA. Perhaps 1/3 of your available cash. Example, surprises aside; if a bounce is expected today and the major indexes open in a gap-up, you can weigh the possibilities of TNA coming down a bit (you buy in an intraday low, and you place a limit order to sell at a price where the daily patterns allow to get out within the probable range and reasonable 1% or 2% gain and then out).

This is sort of trading is based on probabilities. Yes, you have to keep watching and ready to pull the trigger. True, it is a ball park pattern recognition trading without using software, but watching the market with a real-time daily chart of TNA - "as flying by the seat of your pants style"; but based on the most likely probability that the bounce is occurring. Of course, you have to calculate the amount of cash that clears the fees and gives a profit. The bounce should be sustainable at least during the morning so that you can clear the deck, make a profit, and get out. Not saying that one should risk all the funds, but part of the funds; thereby, you can build the IRA over time, leaving the bulk of the funds in a more conservative mode, which may include Major indexes, stocks and bonds. All bets are off, if global issues or other unexpected surprise interferes with your assumption of the bounce being the more probable result. Please give me your opinion. Tia.

Kind of reminds me of someone I know who uses pattern recognition and probabilities (win percentages). :D
 
This is a weighted play, meaning we are seeing a pop in the NASADQ 100 but not much of a pop anywhere else.
 
Kind of reminds me of someone I know who uses pattern recognition and probabilities (win percentages). :D
Ebbnflow,

It's good to hear you. I also like your system. So far you are doing fine with your system. I am reading te daily signals as you post them. Other competitors in the S fund competition are doing well also. But it is interesting to note that your system also takes some time to really get maximum gains.As I recall, the guessing competition is until the end of the year? I will try it out. It looks good!
 
Anyone who has read my most recent comment in Ebbs Account talk about his system, should know my impressions of this subject. Please refrain from discussing it within this thread, there are plenty of other places to take this discussion.

Moving on, I did not like this morning's price action, it looks better now but there are still some questions left unresolved. The last time I recall seeing a bottoming tail being put in at the top of a wave, after a very minor pullback, it resulted in a breakout. Whether or not this situation will unfold in the same way is questionable at best. Although I felt like I wanted to eject today, the reality is there wasn't enough data to bring me to make the exit. There is a difference between emotional experience and statistical experience, in this case the latter won my decision making process today.
 
Can't leave you folks alone for a second, I turn around and next thing you know this markets takes a dumpy, what you'all do?
 
Can't leave you folks alone for a second, I turn around and next thing you know this markets takes a dumpy, what you'all do?

You didn't get the memo? Evey single govt. employee jumped to the G fund. We're tight like that....

Still stickin' 50S 50I - till I die. Which may be next week:D
 
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