Griffin Account Talk

Can you explain your reasons for having the C fund in your decision tree instead of S fund? (I think I fund is out because of the rising dollar and also because of the unpredictability of the FV, right?)

Seems like I'm seeing a trend After a correction, many experienced traders seem to first seek out the C fund. I didn't see that the data shows the C fund rising more quickly after a correction but then maybe I'm not looking carefully enough. (But it IS rising a little higher than S fund today as I write this, is this more than luck?)

Any insight would be appreciated.

The C-fund tends to be more stable then the S-fund, simply because of the size and consistency of the large caps earnings. When volatility increases, investors have a tendency to move the out of the higher risk, smaller companies into the large caps. Large caps get a certian amount of bouyancy as a result, while small caps get punished more severly. Also, money that is on the sidelines, has a tendency to first move into large caps, then as the direction and momentum become more apparant, the emphasis shifts to the smaller stocks.

It also has a lot to do with recent behavior. The C-fund has been outperforming the S-fund. We saw this last year in the fall of 06, when we finally came out of the pullback. The S-fund lagged considerable, but then had a great run after about a month into it. Of course, the dollar dropped at the same time and the I-fund was the hot ticket.

PS, you don't really notice this on a day to day scale, it's more of an accumulation process that takes a few days to show a substantial difference, so the onsie's/twosies of a day like today are irrelevant.
 
Griffin,

Good call on the F fund. I saw the setup and post about it in the I fund thread, but I just couldn't stick with it. I should have gone their yesterday. It's just that my YTD sucks and I can't handle the risk of losing a few pennies.:laugh:

The F fund made another U turn and is now up 1.5 cents. I should have gone their for tomorrow also.:rolleyes:
 
Can you explain your reasons for having the C fund in your decision tree instead of S fund? (I think I fund is out because of the rising dollar and also because of the unpredictability of the FV, right?)

Seems like I'm seeing a trend After a correction, many experienced traders seem to first seek out the C fund. I didn't see that the data shows the C fund rising more quickly after a correction but then maybe I'm not looking carefully enough. (But it IS rising a little higher than S fund today as I write this, is this more than luck?)

Any insight would be appreciated.

One more quick comment on this - The DWCP (or EMW if your using sharpcharts) is already about bottomed out, now were waiting on the S&P to catch up.
 
Currrently, I am 100% in the F-fund and have reaped some decent gains. The Ten year note (TNX) move inversely to the F-fund (ticker AGG) and has plenty of room to the downside before hitting any real resistance, conversly the AGG has plenty of room on the upside before meeting any real signficant resistance. Therefore, I am very comfortable where I am given that the ity bitty moves in the stock market are not leaving me behind.

Speaking of the stock market - let's take a look at what's been going on intraday. Let me caveat what I am about to say - I think it is very unlikley that we will see a significant move up from this point, so if that turns about to be wrong, then you may want to tuck it away for later.

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While the trend is clearly down, we have seen these moves step down in big one day moves followed by mini-relief rallies that have actually been slightly green.

It's almost enough to inspire one to jump in (imagine in my best Billy Hayes voice) "But Wait....There's More....will double your order"

Today the S&P popped up to the bottom of the gap that was created on the 17th of December and then slipped down to 1445 - ten points above the gap that was created on the 28th of November.

View attachment 2844

Gaps - come in different flavors but they all basically have one component - a large number of people simultaneously decided that they were leaning in the wrong direction and moved their positions. Gaps represent signficant attitude shifts. The interesting thing about Gaps, is they tend to result in an overload in the other direction and therefore reverse themselves shortly afterwards. Gaps are all about reversals. Some gaps are meaningless, but both of these gaps appear to have substance and here my thoughts on this.

The upper gap - 1465-1468 occurred when the market realized that the FOMC policy sell-off was not going to rally and it is reasonable to argue that the breaking of the 1470 support level was a significant factor in that consensus. As Tom predicted, this gap has turned into resistance. This suggests the market really needs something meaty to sink it's teeth into, in order to undo the damage by the FOMC committee. Unfortunately - there's is nothing coming down the road to really hang that hat on.

The downside gap is the signficantly more important one. Just as breaking the upside gap would suggest the trend is shifting back into the bulls court, the filling of the downside gap suggests that the trend started by that gap is now reversing. The 1435 gap occurred because the five year channel did not fail, which triggered a mighty rally, a reversal would trigger a sell-off. Coincidentally, if tomorrow stays in the intraday channel and now moves down, the S&P is going to fill this gap and smack head on into the support of the five year channel.

At this stage of the game, the only reason to believe that this support level will hold, is because of the Santa Clause rally. This door has been knocked on twice in the last few months and three times can often be the charm.

If you recall what I wrote in this weeks brief about the 1999 top - two consecutive head and shoulder patterns followed by a double top - it's possible we could see a rally from here - anything is possible, but if your like me and your sitting in the F-fund - the grass IS NOT GREENER - in fact it's a bit Grinchy puke green right now. I really would need a darn good reason to abandon my position in bonds. Santa is powerful - but not almighty - we've been spanked this time of year before - in fact I think you only have to go to 2005 to find proof.
 
Currrently, I am 100% in the F-fund and have reaped some decent gains. The Ten year note (TNX) move inversely to the F-fund (ticker AGG) and has plenty of room to the downside before hitting any real resistance, conversly the AGG has plenty of room on the upside before meeting any real signficant resistance. Therefore, I am very comfortable where I am given that the ity bitty moves in the stock market are not leaving me behind.

Speaking of the stock market - let's take a look at what's been going on intraday. Let me caveat what I am about to say - I think it is very unlikley that we will see a significant move up from this point, so if that turns about to be wrong, then you may want to tuck it away for later.

View attachment 2843

I agree Griffin...Good money is being made in bonds. I have been documenting my trades here for approx. 7 weeks. I have had 4 or 5 losing IFT's in total. I count missing a market rally as a losing IFT and missing one as a winning IFT. I was also long for most of that 7.7% pop in starting in late Nov.The bond markets have been adding alot of 3 to 8 penny return days. They are a viable trade as well.

I have to say, I am impressed at the strength of the market, even amazed. Theres talk of recession, then the subprime mess that have carried over to the mainstream credit markets, worse housing numbers on record (1985) and weakened dollar then throw in stagflation, $100 Oil, Geo-Political concerns and the Feds general inability to keep Libor in step with rate cuts, I am astonished we are trading just under 7% below our All-time highs. I have to believe expectations of seasonality are keeping this afloat. We are getting close to a fourth touch of the March/August/October low pins in the charts. The fourth time it hits, chartists are claiming 1370-1260's in the S&P are doable if the perfect storm should arise. Well it looks like the perfect storm to me is on the horizon and I dont see any panic. Just, long exagerrated and protracted downturns without classic capitulation. Theres gonna come a point when people get sick of losing their money in a collective fashion. Still patiently waiting it out.
 
So, Mr. Griffin, could I go to F and relax a little, like maybe until the end of the year. I'm weary, I guess.

Gail

Gail,

I recall you mentioned you were following mey lead, I have no problem with that and if it is accurate then your probably in the F-fund already?

Unfortunately, I can't say we can just wait it out through the New Year - we are rapidly approaching a major market decision point - the kind that you may want to consider rebalancing your IRA's and 401(K)'s around.

I am going on vacation for a couple of weeks and I will not have any visability on the market during the day. I'm going to stick with the decision tree - so if we form a bottom here, I will be moving back in. Given the situation, I would not jump on what "could be a bottom", wait for the real deal. That could be next week, or next month - we'll have to be vigilant.

One thing I will say about this game: if your going to time - then you have to vigilant every day - this is not a game you can play once or twice a week or follow a predictive system - like Ebb.

This is why I don't consider my approach a system.
 
Gail,

I recall you mentioned you were following mey lead, I have no problem with that and if it is accurate then your probably in the F-fund already?

Unfortunately, I can't say we can just wait it out through the New Year - we are rapidly approaching a major market decision point - the kind that you may want to consider rebalancing your IRA's and 401(K)'s around.

I am going on vacation for a couple of weeks and I will not have any visability on the market during the day. I'm going to stick with the decision tree - so if we form a bottom here, I will be moving back in. Given the situation, I would not jump on what "could be a bottom", wait for the real deal. That could be next week, or next month - we'll have to be vigilant.

One thing I will say about this game: if your going to time - then you have to vigilant every day - this is not a game you can play once or twice a week or follow a predictive system - like Ebb.

This is why I don't consider my approach a system.


Very well put. I'll follow you as well - at least until we get to a more consistent pattern (which I feel the past 5 years has been fairly easy to follow). Thanks for your input - very much appreciated.
 
One thing I will say about this game: if your going to time - then you have to vigilant every day - this is not a game you can play once or twice a week or follow a predictive system - like Ebb.

This is why I don't consider my approach a system.

This did not quite sound right. What I mean to say is if you don't have the time to follow the market daily, then you should consider using a system like Ebb.
 
I am sorta of suprised by today's close. The final trading hour seemed to be running along fairly neutral, as it had the last couple of days (which in of itself suprised me) but then it made a good run.

We'll there are two good reasons why we saw today's behavior: 1) the XLF aka - the financials have been flirting with a breakdown of their multi year channel and 2) the small/mid caps touched their multi year channel low.

View attachment 2850

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This is why we saw such a positive response from the DWCP but a continued week response from the large caps. I attribute today's strength to these factors and not to Santa Clause.

The S&P500 moved back to what is now become a well established resistance level at 1460. The S&P needs to move higher and fill the gap from 1465-1468 to really demonstrate strength. This could be worthy of considering it a buy signal.

We have competeing forces - the small/mid caps rebound applying upward pressure, the large caps putting downward pressure on the market and the financials playing the wild card. Bear Sterns was the last of the major investment bankers to report earnings this period, so financials are a real question mark.

Let's not forget that negative Philly Fed report and combine that with the Fed up in the Empire State and you really get a bleak picture long term, yet the market shruggged that off in the face of those lows. Those reports are not forgotten, and I am sure we will hear the talking heads revisiting them over the next few days.

The economic reports on deck tomorrow are all inflationary related. In fact the Core PCE indicator is close to exceeding the Fed's comfort level and high reading tomorrow could effect the outlook on a future fed cut.

So if we get negative news on the reports and despite that, the upward momentum of the small/mid caps is able to pull the large caps into filling the gap at 1465-1468, then I would say we are seeing a rally and a movement back into stocks is probably the way to go. Given that the small/mid caps seem to be leading this rally, I would move into the S-fund rather then the C-fund.

Anything short of that scenario and I will stay fat and happy in bonds.
 
Although the S&P 500 never bottomed out, we did get a bottom out of financials, the nasdaq and the small/mid caps.

I am going jump into the S-fund since this seems to be the fund driving this rally.
 
qqqq, $dwcp aren't showing great bullish patterns on the intraday charts, but they haven't broken down and closed the gaps ups due to all the covering. all this mo should last a little longer, AAPL and other tech leader are showing bullish or continuation patterns intraday.

$dwcp may not hit resistance till 665'ish on a 1 month h&s... that pattern will give way to the larger pattern and hopefully go up to that trendline extending from 10/31 to 12/11, if we break thru that, Verry nice. That's why I brought up $rut.x in bullitts account, it appears that we'll hit/test that upper trendline in the Russell before we will $dwcp :) this should be a precursor. We may get freebie on what's to come in the S fund.
 
just zoomed out to the 6month chart on the Russell and it looks like there's plenty of upward mo-mo in the Slow Sto and MACD... not sure if anyone reads my crap but I thought I'd add that for the bullish arguement.
 
$dwcp may not hit resistance till 665'ish on a 1 month h&s... that pattern will give way to the larger pattern and hopefully go up to that trendline extending from 10/31 to 12/11, if we break thru that, Verry nice. That's why I brought up $rut.x in bullitts account, it appears that we'll hit/test that upper trendline in the Russell before we will $dwcp :) this should be a precursor. We may get freebie on what's to come in the S fund.

FedGolfer,
Definitely know that your posts are read! ;)I at least like your posts alot. Wish I could see a chart though, maybe post a link or something so we can see more what you mean. I use Sharpcharts. The S is $EMW there - here's a link:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$EMW&p=D&yr=0&mn=9&dy=0&id=p55192775979

I'll try to find the Russell, to see what you're meaning....
VR
 
Grif, Thanks for sharing your logic and the reasons behind your posts. When the pay-for-view folks went hollywood, everyone stopped talking about what the market was doing, what it meant in the TSP world, and why they posted their IFT the way they did. :confused:

Now it looks like we are finally getting back to TSPtalk members feeling free to discuss their strategies and logic behind their IFT moves. After losing almost 6% of my TSP fund:sick:, I am finally getting some guideance, again to help me make the right choices. Thank you for your willingness to share without the almighty $$$ getting in the way.:)
 
I am pleased to read your thought processes. I was following EBBnFlow but the decision to eliminate frequest trading by the board has me looking for another source of thinking. With retirement looking me in the eye (I have my get out of jail card) I have to be a bit more conservative and do not want to take another moderate bath like I did in in 2001. So a lot of my portfolio is in G (yeah a bit chicken sh#t I am) but I still have >$50k out there in the I fund. YTD is 7.88% overall. My concern is that the value of the US$ is likely to fall still further and despite having a decent retirement (10yrs CSRS and 21 FERS) it will shrink in value. I do think significant inflation is just an oil price spike away. And I am looking at stock based retirement plans as part of a larger Ponzi scheme. Yeah bleak. So as I approach retirement do gurus think it better to yank TSP funds and dump into other assets as quickly as reasonable or keep riding the market and hope that the rate of return will exceed inflation and taxes and that the market doesn't take a major prolonged down turn? That is the $64k question isn't it?
 
logdoc,
What "other assets" are you considering??

........With retirement looking me in the eye......... So as I approach retirement do gurus think it better to yank TSP funds and dump into other assets as quickly as reasonable or keep riding the market and hope that the rate of return will exceed inflation and taxes and that the market doesn't take a major prolonged down turn? That is the $64k question isn't it?
 
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