FogSailing's Account Talk

Tomorrow - UP....Tuesday - DOWNNNNNNN (Expectations Not predictions)

I'm out as of yesterday. Sitting in G till March. I had been in F...not a bad place UNTIL I started looking at the technicals and thought Wednesday would be it ...WRONG....Tomorrow will be it. That about sums up my story.

If tomorrow is DOWN....I got the count wrong...which wouldn't surprise me.

FS
 
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Tomorrow - UP....Tuesday - DOWNNNNNNN

ok, got it. but i disagree.

tomorrow down. tuesday downnnnn. wednesday down some more holy crap somebody do something. thursday crap i have to go look for another job, honey bring me the paper. honey? honey? honey?
 
Every once in a while I think it's good to look back at a time when we faced a difficult market and reflect on those moments. Below is are two excerpts from old posts I keep around to remind me of those difficult months:

September 29, 2008

A further decline to 1161 followed, and then a bounce to 1172 by 1:30 as the House was voting upon the "bailout plan". When the bill failed to get the required votes the market plummeted. Nearing 2:00 the SPX made a new low for the downtrend at 1126. The potential Primary wave B rally had failed, along with the "bailout plan". The SPX then bounced to 1150, and just past 2:00 rejection of the bill was announced. The bill was rejected 228-205, as more than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill. "We’re all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, ‘I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it – not me.’" Politics before country ruled the day!

March 6, 2009

The US unemployment rate hit 8.1% last month, its highest level since the early 1980’s. Most economic reports also displayed a continuing contraction in activity. The equity markets responded with their worse week since November. The DOW dropped under 7,000 (now at 1997 levels) and the SPX under 700 (at 1996 levels). For the week the SPX/DOW were -6.6%, and the NDX/NAZ were -5.4%. Asian markets were down 5%-7%, but China rose 5.3%. Europe lost 6.2%, and the Commodity equity markets were -4.8%. Bonds were +1.4%, Crude gained 1.7%, and both Gold and the Euro were flat.

By the end of this week the bear market will be entering its 18th month, and the loses are mounting. The SPX is down 58% from its October 2007 high, the NAZ down 56%, and the DOW/NDX have lost 54% of their value. Since 1932 there have been only two other times that the DOW had lost more than 40% during a bear market. The 1973-1974 Cyclical bear market (47%), and the 1937-1942 Cyclical bear market (53%). The current loss in the DOW has now exceeded both, suggesting that we are in a Super cyclical bear market. The last Super cycle bear market occurred between 1929-1932, and the DOW lost 89% of its value during that 34 month period. The rule of alternation, however, suggests that this Super cycle bear market should alternate in wave structure with its predecessor. Since the 1929-1932 bear market was a large zigzag, this bear market should take the form of a flat, triangle or complex structure. The most common alternating wave structure is a flat. This suggests after the initial low is established, a strong rally should follow, and then a retest of that low should end the bear market. This remains the preferred scenario. In regard to time, this bear market could end as early as 2010, or as late as 2012.

Here is a picture of how bears markets are similar in many ways (I think this is 1996 and 2009):

View attachment 37112

Those were some difficult days and based on the fact that so many of us are still very bullish, it's going to be a while before we move through this bear. My thinking is that the high for last May was 2135 and the bear really started then. We're almost a year later and things are pulling back in a steady almost methodical way. However we are coming close to a point where there is going to be a major slide downward.

The good news is that past experience and technology are real tools when we go through these downturns, and getting "burned" is something that teaches us lessons we generally remember when similar situations show themselves. My expectations are that there may be a small bounce next week but it will be limited to about 1917 tops, and probably choppy. This should all conclude next week followed by market heading down (possibly as low as 1640 but probably in the mid 1700's) before we have another move big bounce. After that bounce I expect that we will enter the bear market in earnest.

Be safe out there!!!

FS

All the best in your investing.
 
Very nice of you to spend the time and inform us. I think you are going to be right, but back in 2008/09 it felt bad even at the beginning, I dont have that overall sense. I feel it is going to be choppy for a bit, enough to have a crazy election.
 
I agree Dinicti. This bear market doesn't have the same vibe of impending doom....at least not yet. Last time we had a Fed with tools. This time we have liquidity shrinking and few tools. Many of the experts out there are calling for this bear to be over somewhere between 1200 and 1300 SPX.I just hope that oil stays an open market item for the next year. It is good for Main Street and our service economy. I have now changed my investing strategy for the next 12 months or so. Primary is asset preservation so I see G and F fund and a few forays into C,S, or I for limited periods based on conditions. I would not be a buy and holder in this market.

FS
 
Yesterday, I was noting that several analysts I follow on different blogs were expecting the bear to go to about 1200. One of those guys sees thinks the first big move will initially bottom in the 1600's. His next comment was that 1810 is a possible current bottom if you compare it to 2008 bear market (See graph below). I have been thinking we drop to 1750 then down. His thinking differs.

After a bounce from the green dot, 2008 bear market dropped around 2.382%. Applying the same ratio to the current market (2.383%) would take prices to low 1200s. The interesting thing about the graph is that the timeframes are very similar (i.e. Sept thru March generally) and the wave structure is similar. In 2008 the market lost roughly 225 point over this timeframe while in 2016 we have lost about 300 points is what it look like. In 2008 there was a nice bounce (175 points) before the big slide. That's not to say history will repeat itself, just something interesting to tuck away. I wish I had this data a week ago...oh well...

View attachment 37118

FS
 
This is an interesting chart regarding bull and bear markets. During bear markets the indices are usually "oversold". The other interesting item is to the locations of the 200 and 400 dma during these periods. Also use of the Williams Momentum Indicator provides some additional context to the Slow Sto. Just FYI.

View attachment 37143

FS

Williams Momentum Indicator - Developed by Larry Williams, Williams %R is a momentum indicator that is the inverse of the Fast Stochastic Oscillator. Also referred to as %R, Williams %R reflects the level of the close relative to the highest high for the look-back period. In contrast, the Stochastic Oscillator reflects the level of the close relative to the lowest low. %R corrects for the inversion by multiplying the raw value by -100. As a result, the Fast Stochastic Oscillator and Williams %R produce the exact same lines, only the scaling is different. Williams %R oscillates from 0 to -100. Readings from 0 to -20 are considered overbought. Readings from -80 to -100 are considered oversold. Unsurprisingly, signals derived from the Stochastic Oscillator are also applicable to Williams %R.
 
This is an interesting chart regarding bull and bear markets. During bear markets the indices are usually "oversold". The other interesting item is to the locations of the 200 and 400 dma during these periods. Also use of the Williams Momentum Indicator provides some additional context to the Slow Sto. Just FYI.


FS

Williams Momentum Indicator - Developed by Larry Williams, Williams %R is a momentum indicator that is the inverse of the Fast Stochastic Oscillator. Also referred to as %R, Williams %R reflects the level of the close relative to the highest high for the look-back period. In contrast, the Stochastic Oscillator reflects the level of the close relative to the lowest low. %R corrects for the inversion by multiplying the raw value by -100. As a result, the Fast Stochastic Oscillator and Williams %R produce the exact same lines, only the scaling is different. Williams %R oscillates from 0 to -100. Readings from 0 to -20 are considered overbought. Readings from -80 to -100 are considered oversold. Unsurprisingly, signals derived from the Stochastic Oscillator are also applicable to Williams %R.

that is one of the few charts i can understand. i wonder does it update automatically and where can it be found?
 
Thought this was funny...

Hi Burro. I found it at a site called realinvestmentadvice.com. It was posted by an analyst named Lance Roberts. I thought it was a really good chart. A guy can't go wrong a name like Lance or Dirk.:D

For tomorrow, IMHO the market must pullback to 1872 or lower if it is going to get the momentum to bounce above 1920. If it continues the move up without a retrace (which I doubt) it won't go past 1920.

Heard this one today......

Patient: I hesitate to mention this, but I don’t expect FOMC to have the effect that it did when everyone was awaiting the first rate hike. However, the March/April, and June/July FOMC should be watched for that 90 minute play once the Minutes come out. I’m doubtful they’ll raise the rate again before the election, but who knows anymore.

Therapist: Stage One - DENIAL :D:D:D

FS
 
Or Put Another way - The Five Stages Of Depression

Denial (SPX 1,867)
Anger (SPX 1,750)
Bargaining (SPX 1,500)
Depression (SPX 1,250)
Acceptance (SPX 1,100)

Finally...New Bull Market

FS
 
Or Put Another way - The Five Stages Of Depression

Denial (SPX 1,867)
Anger (SPX 1,750)
Bargaining (SPX 1,500)
Depression (SPX 1,250)
Acceptance (SPX 1,100)

Finally...New Bull Market

FS

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
 
There is a lot of bullishness out there right now. I don't have a sentiment survey but there are a lot of Bull-ievers. :D

If I were in right now I would have gotten out today. My thinking is that the market is about to retrace to 1870-1880 before it begins another leg up to 1956. Not sure of the timeframe and there could be some zip-zag sideways action for a period of weeks before that happens. The market makes up it's own rules.

Here are a few things that concern me regarding the market's outlook:

The tremendous outstanding global debt – Debts of countries, companies and public. I read that global debt has doubled over the last 6 years. That's a very big number. If global debt becomes a major issue (and it may), currency wars are more than likely. There is more than China affected by the issue. The EU (stability or?), commodities, unemployment throughout the world (not U.S),the reduction of cash in the US (the tax man cometh) and there isn't any more US QE program (so liquidity is an issue). My major concern remains government/corporate debt, held by CB’s and banks. What happens to these assets if\when currency wars occur? What happens to a bank like Deutsche with their 80:1 leverage?

To take that thought a little further: The next EU meeting is March 11th. The next fed meeting is March 16th. What happens if the EU adopts negative interest rates and the US hikes it's rate? How far does the Euro tumble? That is the kind of thing that could tilt the market seriously lower. Not to mention the oil is a long way from an agreement on reduced production. There is likely going to be a lot of the stuff selling in the back channels to keep the balance sheets up. Volatile and unstable IMHO.

I for one am leaning to the bearish side (don’t want to influence anyone) but the market itself could be the catalyst for a further drop. Assume the market went to a slightly higher high on the next leg up, it would remind me a bit of August – September 1987.

I love a rally and I'm really ticked at myself for mistiming this one by a day. It will likely play out by the end of February but I hold out hope to catch that wave to 1956 in early March. After that, I think it's going to be a while before I see another good opportunity.

Best to you in your investing.

FS
 
I think it's going to be a while before I see another good opportunity.

take heart. at least you believe there will be more good opportunities. and there will. you don't have to catch them all, just catch more than you drop. there is always a bright side.
 
Always Burro!

Noticed that oil surged overnight and the yen is up against the dollar. Also, if you follow volume or price action, looks like lighter volume yesterday. From that I assume the big guns are moving out while the sidelines investors are jumping in. The oil rally could take us to 1956 or even higher. I know that will get lots of people excited to enter the market which is just what the market wants. If we continue up today, we are likely in a B Wave with a C correction to follow very soon. The old phrase "resistance is futile" doesn't always work so well in the stock market. Tomorrow is Expirations day and the Wed-Fri are typically bullish so it may not be until Monday that things go south or not...

FS
 
I for one am rooting for Mr. Market to be flat to down today and down Friday, Monday and Tuesday. If that happens, I'm thinking of buying in COB Tuesday and then out by Friday. So I'm looking for a little bit of a pullback until early next week and then another dead cat bounce.

At least that's what the tea leaves are telling me at this point...:nuts:
 
I think that is exactly correct Raven. Still think SPX is going to bounce to 1956 pivot or thereabouts... but it's looking like todays bull trap worked and the bounce is postponed till next week. The oil volatility is not a good thing for pension investors. Best of luck next week.

FS
 
One of the analysts I follow posted this chart of his expected pattern for SPX. As always, you never know what or when an unexpected event will change the market...but he is suggesting we pullback to about 1860 then rally to 2000 before another big downturn. Here it is ..

View attachment 37168

FS
 
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