James48843
Well-known member
June Ethanol down .09 cents to $2.40
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Corn and Ethanol.
- Thread starter Show-me
- Start date
James48843
Well-known member
Show-me
Well-known member
Great now we are relying on a "renewable" fuel that is highly dependent on 1. water, 2. growing season, 3. insects, 4. disease, 5. fertilizer availability, 6. chemicals, etc. Now once it gets a foothold in the market you will see some nice swings.
Not the right path to be going. You better start thinking solar.
Not the right path to be going. You better start thinking solar.
Silverbird
Well-known member
Solar for cars? For structures, yes, it's getting better and better but haven't seen it as an alternate for gasoline yet?
luv2read
Active member
why not solar panels on cars? Cars sure absorb heat fast enough as it is, why not stick panels on the roofs and take advantage of that. I don't know why that's not part of the solution with the whole hybrid/battery/electric car conundrum.
Silverbird
Well-known member
Problems are weight (too heavy vehicle to be efficient), and also the fragility of solar panels (survive weather well, but can't take a dent). Making them dent resistant current technology uses materials that do not let sunlight in at the amount needed to generate power. I'm not a pointy head on the subject but have to keep up with the market, so there may theoritically be something that works, but I haven't seen it yet even out of the lab projects. Solar *can* be used to recharge batteries, but mostly the recharge system is industrial size.
The cost for producing electricity from solar energy is still not cost effective. To produce enough electricity to supply one home would run between $25,000-$35,000 and you would still be dependent on the grid. To be grid independent , you would need a vast array of batteries that would take up all basement space.
Wind might be cheaper.
Wind might be cheaper.
XL-entLady
Well-known member
There is a company called - I think - Solar Sailor that makes a solar powered ferry boat. I ran into the specs during a project I was working on. I can't remember the specifics regarding how efficient it was or how much ancilliary fuel it took though. I just remember the boat looked very cool!
And you're right, Silverbird, we are talking seriously industrial size here.
Lady
Silverbird
Well-known member
Ferry boat is perfect for solar panels, big and flat. Here you go. http://www.solarsailor.com/There is a company called - I think - Solar Sailor that makes a solar powered ferry boat. I ran into the specs during a project I was working on. I can't remember the specifics regarding how efficient it was or how much ancilliary fuel it took though. I just remember the boat looked very cool!
And you're right, Silverbird, we are talking seriously industrial size here.
Lady
Show-me
Well-known member
My thinking was electric cars, the grid would be over every road and parking lot in the US. You would reduce road heating and damage while providing a grid system for everyone to tap into for a recharge.
Start in the Southwest or Texas. Lots of roads and sun.
As far as it not being effective, I agree but neither was ethanol until Congress subsidized the production and gave tax credits to the oil companies for every gallon blended.
Just spit balling.
Start in the Southwest or Texas. Lots of roads and sun.
As far as it not being effective, I agree but neither was ethanol until Congress subsidized the production and gave tax credits to the oil companies for every gallon blended.
Just spit balling.
At least we are thinking more about alternative forms of energy. That's a start.
But with the mentality that the powers to be have, as soon as oil prices go down to acceptable levels (If it happens) everyone one will forget about ethanol, solar, or wind.
I saw a commercial the other day where Chrysler was promising $2.99/gal for gas or diesel for 12,000 miles per year for three years if you buy a new vehicle from them.
Perhaps they know something we don't.
James48843
Well-known member
They can do math.
At $4 gas, then it only costs them a buck a gallon. Times that by the number of gallons they need to buy to power their cars for 36,000 miles total (at 20 MPG, and $4 gas that works out to 1800 gallons, at a buck subsidy a gallon). Or a flat $1800 bucks At five bucks a gallon, it would work out to $3600 bucks.
GM is offering $3500 rebates right now, only it's cash now, not a promise of cheaper gas later. GM will pay it out whether the price of gas rises or falls. Chrysler only has to pay out if the price is higher.
And if gas falls to $3 a gallon, then they are off the hook entirely. (ok- a penny a gallon).
If you ask me- Chrysler is betting that gas won't exceed $5 over the next three years. If it does, then they will be hurting. But to tell you the truth, they won't be hurting as much as GM will be hurting if gas goes to five bucks.
James48843
Well-known member
Technology isn't anywhere near advanced enough to generate the wattage of power in the small size surface area for a car. Yes, you could probably generate perhaps 1200 watts per hour on solar panels covering an automobile. But that wouldn't be enough to move the car very far at all.
About the best we can do right now is here: View attachment 3969
http://www.engr.arizona.edu/newsletters/carspecs/specsasc.html
Teams compete, but this is a typical car.
120 square feet of surface are covered by solar cells.
And on a custom designed "super racer", that weighs only 450 pounds, and powered by an 8hp motor, that one goes while the sun is shining, but eventually runs out of power. Cruises at about 45MPH, top speed for sprinting is 70.
But that's $6,000 worth of solar panels, plus an equal amount invested in batteries, and more in the frame and motor.
And if it shared the road with a Lincoln Navigator, I am afraid the Navigator would win.
I can't wait until they invent the "Jetson's car".
James48843
Well-known member
Number of E85 fueling stations jump in May, begining to reach critical mass:
E85 Station Count - Jan 1256 , Feb 1380 , March 1451 , April 1510 , May 1608
E85 now selling in 1183 cities in the U.S.
See the message boards in http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php
and report or find local prices in 1183 cities at: http://e85prices.com
While it may not be the entire solution to the foreign oil import problem, the very fact that there is now an alternative fuel available is keeping the price of gasoline in check. Without E85, gasoline would be priced a LOT higher by now.
E85 Station Count - Jan 1256 , Feb 1380 , March 1451 , April 1510 , May 1608
E85 now selling in 1183 cities in the U.S.
See the message boards in http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php
and report or find local prices in 1183 cities at: http://e85prices.com
While it may not be the entire solution to the foreign oil import problem, the very fact that there is now an alternative fuel available is keeping the price of gasoline in check. Without E85, gasoline would be priced a LOT higher by now.
FUTURESTRADER
Active member
Sunoco station just started selling E85 on Rockville Pike (for you MD/DC folk) for $3.35 vs. $4.00 gasoline. Thats not taking into account the $10 oil pop on Friday yet. The flex-fuel vehicles now have my serious attention.
Silverbird
Well-known member
It could be because it's trucked in and the price is suffering from delivery fees. Also, depending on how many suppliers of E85 there are in your area, they have a hold on the market.
James48843
Well-known member
Not sure exactly what town you are talking about. There are some of the lowest prices in the Nation in Illinois:
Here are some of the locations of E85 stations, from
the maps available at http://e85prices.com
View attachment 4027
the maps available at http://e85prices.com
View attachment 4027
If it's only a dime difference at the station you are looking at, it's probably because the owner of the station thinks he can get away with it. There are a couple "Sullivans Foods" stations in west central illinois that are 35% plus below the price of gasoline. Search for stations near you, and then report the price you find. And then let the station owner know what other places have E85 for in that area.
When there is competition, prices will fall.
Silverbird
Well-known member
Sigh, the site says the only E85 in Virginia is sold by Citgo. :notrust:
luv2read
Active member
Citgo is owned by Venezuela. However, ALL of the majors are in partnerships with Venezuela. Can't get away from it folks. Buy the cheapest gas you can find and forget about the politics of it, we're getting raped by everyone. Don't forget the bulk of our imports is from the mideast, and they are NOT our friends.
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