Corn and Ethanol.

[Minnow]

I owe you a retraction James. I have personally seen the Chattanooga VW plant. They do have plans to make at least the "luxury" editions of the Jetta there but all Jettas are not currently made there. All Passats are made there. So, I guess that's a half-retraction. Carry on.

 

[Minnow]

You mean other than my dad living 5 miles from Chattanooga and having personally seen the plant? And other than Buster's citation. And other than Volkswagen's own site. And other than eyewitness accounts of virtually every reporter in the greater Chattanooga area? I suppose the Huffington post has to report it for you. Tell you what -- go do your own damn research. Thanks

 

[Buster]

This came out in October of 2010..So it probably is "NOW"

Here’s Volkswagen’s American dilemma: Fans like the way the brand’s cars are more expensively engineered than their mainstream rivals, but it’s difficult to shift Jettas in the same quantities as Civics and Corollas when the cars cost more to both VW and the customer. Because the corporate bosses in Wolfsburg, Germany, want the North American arm to sell a lot more cars, quickly—the stated aim being to triple sales by 2018—they’ve forged ahead with a new factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and tailored the new Jetta to the U.S. market.

Volkswagen Jetta Review: 2011 VW Jetta Drive – Car and Driver

 

[James48843]

What do you have that says the Jetta is built in Tennessee? The only thing I could find says that the Passat is built in Tennessee, and the Jetta is made in Mexico and Germany. Volkswagen Chattanooga Assembly Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and
Volkswagen Jetta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would be happy to see something that says Jettas are being made in the USA now. So far, I can't find anything of the sort.

What can you show me?

 

[Mapper]

True, but I still brought more than I needed, roof box is in place for ski season so it naturally it got filled w/ stuff. Had to fuel up once ~450-500 miles to a tank, gasser. Diesel would be nice but wasn't in the budget when this very used car was purchased.

 

[WorkFE]

Just got back from a 700 mile 3 day trip to Escalante National Monument fully loaded w/ a roof box

FWIW Out of all foriegn cars VW would probably be the first I would look at the Mercedes, they both come in diesel versions with a track record, however your idea of fully loaded (no roof box included:nuts and mine are 2 different things.

700 Miles I would not even need to stop and fill up. My bladder on the other hand would need to be emptied somewhere along the line.

 

[Mapper]

Not bagging the Ford. I have driven new Jettas and Focuses though, and there not really in the same class.

As a longtime VW owner (4 of them, current wagon about to turn 250k) I can say they generally aren't cheap to own but treat you well if you do proper maintenance. At this point, my car is very cheap to own and still drives very nicely. Just got back from a 700 mile 3 day trip to Escalante National Monument fully loaded w/ a roof box. Took 75 miles of gravel roads and a freeway cruise home at 85 mph without missing a beat...30mpg on premium fuel . I want a "newer" car but just can't let this one go.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

1: it's quite amusing to see how fueleconomy.gov "tests" those cars -- sort of like the honor system, so it's gotta be accurate, huh?
2: anytime you want to go test drive (that means in the REAL WORLD and not on a dynamometer) a volkswagen jetta TDI versus a ford focus SFE, I'll go against you any day of the week and beat you on fuel economy with the "foreign" car.
3: the volkswagen jetta tdi manufacturing plant (for wagons and has plans to be for all jettas last I heard) is close to being completely online (if not already) in Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA.
4: that "use of oil" test is so laughable, I won't respond.
5: you are getting close to comparing apples to apples, so keep up the good work.
6: I definitely want in on the ground floor of Viva's biodiesel reactor... think his homeowner's insurance will cover it?

With regard to 6: I doubt it! :nuts: That's why the wife hasn't let me build one yet.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Volkswagon Jetta TDI 2.0 liter turbo diesel (with spoiler)
140 HP, w/ auto matic transmission, 30/42 MPG Diesel
MSRP $24,450
plus $770 destination fee

$ 25,220
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR 10.3 barrels of oil

-VS-

Ford Focus SFE 2.0 Liter GDI Flexfuel engine 160HP, w/ 6 speed automatic transmission, 28/40 MPG Flex-Fuel , SFE Fuel Economy Option,
MSRP $20,030
Plus $795 detination fee

$ 20,895
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR – 9.4 barrels of oil, if you use gasoline.
3.1 barrels of oil per year, if you are using American-made E85 fuel.


Soo.... VW TDI Jetta- $4 grand higher price, lower HP, uses 3 times the oil, and employs German workers.

-OR-

Ford Focus- $4K less, uses 1/3rd the oil, and employs American workers.

Yep- that's something to think about.

I'll give you this- Jetta does have 3 more square feet of cabin space.

If you use a blend of biodiesel/diesel or pure biodiesel, the numbers get a little better for the VW:
B5=9.79 barrels
B20= 8.24 barrels
B99=.103 barrels
B100=0 barrels

And you can make B100 at home, if you so desire. Admittedly, the newer diesels aren't designed to use biodiesel fuel, so you'd have to nurse an older vehicle that didn't have a diesel particulate filter.

I've told the story about my last GM car a few times on this board, so I won't revisit that one. I won't be getting a GM car any time soon. I am trying to decide whether to get a decent used Ford F250 Super Duty, or stick with a more economical VW TDI. I drive about 70 miles per day commuting, so the more I can get out of my fuel the better.

Sorry James, I'm not going to buy a new, American made vehicle just to give the American Auto Workers Union their dues. Maybe if they had made better quality cars years ago I wouldn't have had a negative exerience with their product and would still have the "Buy American" pride I used to have. GM has a lot to make up for if they ever want to receive my money again!

Then again, if Obamacare is determined to be Constitutional, then Obama could mandate everyone buy a GM car.

 

[Minnow]

Indeed Minnow, New Jettas are made in Chattanooga and were previously built in Mexico. The new Jetta, bigger, is more equivalent to a Fusion when it comes to dimensions, 3 cubic feet in the cabin is a lot of space. The Tdi might suffer a HP deficit but has more torque, which is better measure of "power". The Focus is a nice enough car though, the economy is impressive and it will probably cost less to own. The Tdi, unlike many other german cars, usually keeps it's value, especially in the first few years. If you're in the habit of buying a new car every 2-3 years it would be an excellent choice

I wouldn't bag on Ford (they didn't take a bailout -- and there currently aren't tax credits for flexfuel vehicles, so that's nice). Just getting the facts straight
because, a person is definitely entitled to their own opinion, however; a person is not entitled to their own facts.

It would be arguable which has a higher cost to own over the life of the car (that varies from driver to driver). The focus(es) are, as you state, a decent economy car. But, as I never would again buy a new car, if I were in the market for a slightly used 4-door economy car, shopping around for a used Jetta TDI would probably be a good idea and, being a wary consumer with a calculator, wouldn't be persuaded by certain misleading numbers.

 

[Minnow]

I had a fun little visit to that .gov site... just for giggles, it seemed to confirm that the Jetta was the cheaper on gas even at current fuel prices (that being diesel currently more expensive than gas on the national average)... funny thing that math. Oh, and I don't think you wanna know the results when you make the jetta a manual 6 speed transmission.

• Fuel Economy
• Energy and Environment
• Safety
• Specs

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] [/TD]
[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]X
2012 Volkswagen Jetta [/TH]
[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]X
2012 Ford Focus SFE FWD FFV [/TH]
[TD="class: sbsCellButton"] [/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] Personalize [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]Diesel Vehicle

[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]Flex-fuel Vehicle

[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellButton"] Add a Vehicle [/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]2.0 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (S6) [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]2.0 L, 4 cyl, Auto(AM6) [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellButton"] [/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]MSRP: $15,515 - $26,445 [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellButton"] [/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] [/TD]
[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]2012 Volkswagen Jetta [/TH]
[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]2012 Ford Focus SFE FWD FFV [/TH]

[TH="class: rowGroup, colspan: 3"]EPA Fuel Economy[/TH]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Miles per Gallon [/TH]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]Diesel
34
Combined
30 City

42 Highway

[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]Regular Gasoline
33
Combined
28 City

40 Highway

[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData, bgcolor: #ffffcc"]E85
23
Combined
20 City

28 Highway

[/TD]

[TH="class: rowGroup, colspan: 3"]MPG Estimates from Drivers Like You[/TH]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] Learn more about "Your MPG" [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]Average based on 3 vehicles
41.1
39 Lo

45 Hi

[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"]User MPG estimates are not yet available for this vehicle [/TD]

[TD="class: sbsCellData"] [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"] View Individual Estimates [/TD]
[TD="class: sbsCellData"][/TD]

[TH="class: rowGroup, colspan: 3"]Fuel Economics [/TH]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Cost to Drive 25 Miles[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Diesel: $3.04[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Gas: $2.93[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"]E85: $3.41[/TD]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Fuel to Drive 25 Miles[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Diesel: 0.74 gallons[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Gas: 0.76 gallons[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"]E85: 1.09 gallons[/TD]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Cost to Fill the Tank[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Diesel: $54[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Gas: $43[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"]E85: $35[/TD]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Miles on a Tank[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Diesel: 444 miles[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Gas: 368 miles[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"]E85: 257 miles[/TD]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Tank Size[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData"]14.5 gallons[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData"]12.4 gallons[/TD]

[TH="class: sbsCellHeader"]Annual Fuel Cost*[/TH]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Diesel: $1,850[/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow1"]Gas: $1,750[/TD]

[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"][/TD]
[TD="class: sbsEconData econRow2"]E85: $2,050[/TD]

[TD="class: alignLeft, width: 576, colspan: 3"]*Based on 45% highway, 55% city driving, 15,000 annual miles and current fuel prices. Personalize .
MSRP and tank size data provided by Edmunds.com, Inc.
[/TD]

 

[Mapper]

Indeed Minnow, New Jettas are made in Chattanooga and were previously built in Mexico. The new Jetta, bigger, is more equivalent to a Fusion when it comes to dimensions, 3 cubic feet in the cabin is a lot of space. The Tdi might suffer a HP deficit but has more torque, which is better measure of "power". The Focus is a nice enough car though, the economy is impressive and it will probably cost less to own. The Tdi, unlike many other german cars, usually keeps it's value, especially in the first few years. If you're in the habit of buying a new car every 2-3 years it would be an excellent choice

 

[Minnow]

Volkswagon Jetta TDI 2.0 liter turbo diesel (with spoiler)
140 HP, w/ auto matic transmission, 30/42 MPG Diesel
MSRP $24,450
plus $770 destination fee

$ 25,220
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR 10.3 barrels of oil

-VS-

Ford Focus SFE 2.0 Liter GDI Flexfuel engine 160HP, w/ 6 speed automatic transmission, 28/40 MPG Flex-Fuel , SFE Fuel Economy Option,
MSRP $20,030
Plus $795 detination fee

$ 20,895
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR – 9.4 barrels of oil, if you use gasoline.
3.1 barrels of oil per year, if you are using American-made E85 fuel.


Soo.... VW TDI Jetta- $4 grand higher price, lower HP, uses 3 times the oil, and employs German workers.

-OR-

Ford Focus- $4K less, uses 1/3rd the oil, and employs American workers.

View attachment 18319

Yep- that's something to think about.

I'll give you this- Jetta does have 3 more square feet of cabin space.

1: it's quite amusing to see how fueleconomy.gov "tests" those cars -- sort of like the honor system, so it's gotta be accurate, huh?
2: anytime you want to go test drive (that means in the REAL WORLD and not on a dynamometer) a volkswagen jetta TDI versus a ford focus SFE, I'll go against you any day of the week and beat you on fuel economy with the "foreign" car.
3: the volkswagen jetta tdi manufacturing plant (for wagons and has plans to be for all jettas last I heard) is close to being completely online (if not already) in Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA.
4: that "use of oil" test is so laughable, I won't respond.
5: you are getting close to comparing apples to apples, so keep up the good work.
6: I definitely want in on the ground floor of Viva's biodiesel reactor... think his homeowner's insurance will cover it?

 

[WorkFE]

VLM, I'm a Diesel guy but only for the big boys. I'm not going to lie, when they build an electric truck that can pull 8K for 200 miles+ I'll look into it but they don't so my F250 SD is staying put.

 

[James48843]

And Viva will corner the market on French Fry grease in the process.

 

[James48843]

Volkswagon Jetta TDI 2.0 liter turbo diesel (with spoiler)
140 HP, w/ auto matic transmission, 30/42 MPG Diesel
MSRP $24,450
plus $770 destination fee

$ 25,220
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR 10.3 barrels of oil

-VS-

Ford Focus SFE 2.0 Liter GDI Flexfuel engine 160HP, w/ 6 speed automatic transmission, 28/40 MPG Flex-Fuel , SFE Fuel Economy Option,
MSRP $20,030
Plus $795 detination fee

$ 20,895
Fueleconomy.gov rated OIL USE PER YEAR – 9.4 barrels of oil, if you use gasoline.
3.1 barrels of oil per year, if you are using American-made E85 fuel.


Soo.... VW TDI Jetta- $4 grand higher price, lower HP, uses 3 times the oil, and employs German workers.

-OR-

Ford Focus- $4K less, uses 1/3rd the oil, and employs American workers.



Yep- that's something to think about.

I'll give you this- Jetta does have 3 more square feet of cabin space.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

The Ford Eco Boost is a TDI
1. Fiesta ST 1.6l Ecoboost (40 MPG)
2. Focus 2.0l Ecoboost
3. Fusion I believe you can get it in a 4 and 6 cylinder engine

They all boast fuel economy 30 and up with the ecoboost.
I have a Flex 3.5L ecoboost. 355 horsepower in a fancy station wagon. My sons friends with their tuners do not mess with my wife and she gets 23/29.

I was thinking more about a diesel TDI, but those are pretty impressive numbers for gasoline engines. Like James has a one track mind about ethanol, I'm the same way about biodiesel. Sooner or later I'll be able to put up some real world numbers on my own biodiesel perfomance and cost. At the moment, though, I'm still trying to get the wife to let me build a biodiesel reactor.

 

[WorkFE]

The Ford Eco Boost is a TDI
1. Fiesta ST 1.6l Ecoboost (40 MPG)
2. Focus 2.0l Ecoboost
3. Fusion I believe you can get it in a 4 and 6 cylinder engine

They all boast fuel economy 30 and up with the ecoboost.
I have a Flex 3.5L ecoboost. 355 horsepower in a fancy station wagon. My sons friends with their tuners do not mess with my wife and she gets 23/29.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

For what it's worth- Ford Motor Company has launched a new Ford Focus Flex-Fuel "SFE" (Special Fuel Economy) edition.

Powered by a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder engine, the new Ford Focus SFE gets 40 MPG highway on gasoline, and 28 MPG on E85. That's a 25% improvement on any previously available flex-fuel car out there, and is potentially a real game-changer in the Flex-Fuel world. Details: Compare Side-by-Side

Yes, it's a small car- but it competes directly with the Chevy Cruze on MPG, and is flex-fuel, where as the Cruze is not.

They should come up with a "TDI" type of vehicle to compete with the Volkswagen Jetta. Better gas mileage, and a turbocharger to boot!

 

[James48843]

For what it's worth- Ford Motor Company has launched a new Ford Focus Flex-Fuel "SFE" (Special Fuel Economy) edition.

Powered by a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder engine, the new Ford Focus SFE gets 40 MPG highway on gasoline, and 28 MPG on E85. That's a 25% improvement on any previously available flex-fuel car out there, and is potentially a real game-changer in the Flex-Fuel world. Details: Compare Side-by-Side

Yes, it's a small car- but it competes directly with the Chevy Cruze on MPG, and is flex-fuel, where as the Cruze is not.