ChemEng's Account talk...

[airlift]

In my opinion, it is irrelevant whether the immigrants come from the North, the South, the East, or the West. There is no Nation in this world that can long survive with National cohesion and integrity, unless the Nation is able to control its borders and is also able to absorb the new populations into the mainstream of say American Society. A rational, all-encompassing, and comprehensive solution is of the essence. Breathing space for assimilation is needed. Control of the borders is not a bad word!

 

[Steadygain]

In my opinion, it is irrelevant whether the immigrants come from the North, the South, the East, or the West. There is no Nation in this world that can long survive with National cohesion and integrity, unless the Nation is able to control its borders and is also able to absorb the new populations into the mainstream of say American Society. A rational, all-encompassing, and comprehensive solution is of the essence. Breathing space for assimilation is needed. Control of the borders is not a bad word!

My bottom line gut assessment would probably say this very same thing.

But - "I'M AN IDIOT" - and I don't mind stirring things up a little bit.

So let's do a quick review: The Native Americans owned the land and largely respected all life. They essentially held beliefs that expressed a deep sacredness for both the animals which provided their food and equally regarded the "Land" - (the Black Hils) and many other regions as very sacred.

"We" came from all directions and took over. Our government made promise after promise - "to give them a hope; something they could accept for their enomous loss" - only to have these promises broken over and over.

Now WE - ALL CLAIM TO BE "THE TRUE AMERICANS" and see the new comers exactly as "The Native Americans" saw us.

What is really at hand here is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is still seen as the greatest country on Earth. This is a wonderful image for us to project. In many ways - our way of life is the best of the best and most of it we take for granted (because we don't know how the rest of the world lives).

I would say our best course of action is to make this country "THE MELTING POT" and keep it that way. Open the borders for all those "seeking the American Dream" - and reward the ambitious and hard working individuals and let them replace the lazy and worthless who are determined to "let the Country give free handouts".

I guess what I'm saying is - let them come no matter what direction and let the ones who excell make the country a better place. It's the lazy and worthless individuals who are not willing or motivated that we need to deal with.

 

[luv2read]

Suggested reading:

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon (non-fiction)

and as a prelude:

The Glory and The Lightning by Taylor Caldwell (fiction)

History repeats itself. Humans seem to be the only species not to learn from its mistakes - or at least to ignore the lessons learned.

 

[Frixxxx]

My bottom line gut assessment would probably say this very same thing.

But - "I'M AN IDIOT" - and I don't mind stirring things up a little bit.

No you're not.

So let's do a quick review: The Native Americans owned the land and largely respected all life. They essentially held beliefs that expressed a deep sacredness for both the animals which provided their food and equally regarded the "Land" - (the Black Hils) and many other regions as very sacred.

They never "owned" the land, but yes, they were here.

"We" came from all directions and took over. Our government made promise after promise - "to give them a hope; something they could accept for their enomous loss" - only to have these promises broken over and over.

Every gov't took turns decimating tribes in North America. French, Spanish, English, Dutch, Portugese

Now WE - ALL CLAIM TO BE "THE TRUE AMERICANS" and see the new comers exactly as "The Native Americans" saw us.

What is really at hand here is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is still seen as the greatest country on Earth. This is a wonderful image for us to project. In many ways - our way of life is the best of the best and most of it we take for granted (because we don't know how the rest of the world lives).

I would say our best course of action is to make this country "THE MELTING POT" and keep it that way. Open the borders for all those "seeking the American Dream" - and reward the ambitious and hard working individuals and let them replace the lazy and worthless who are determined to "let the Country give free handouts".

I guess what I'm saying is - let them come no matter what direction and let the ones who excell make the country a better place. It's the lazy and worthless individuals who are not willing or motivated that we need to deal with.

Borders without security is anarchy. Security is control. No Security is no control. Economically, open borders are disasterous, unless you abolish social programs. Our infrastructure can barely support our current numbers. Our country is great for many reasons, immigrants made our country. To support and sustain our great country, the control on people wanting to be here must be sustained. Those who truly want to be here should use the system, however long to gain there membership (citizenship).

Suggested reading:
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon (non-fiction)
and as a prelude:
The Glory and The Lightning by Taylor Caldwell (fiction)

History repeats itself. Humans seem to be the only species not to learn from its mistakes - or at least to ignore the lessons learned.

So true!

 

[ChemEng]

History repeats itself. Humans seem to be the only species not to learn from its mistakes - or at least to ignore the lessons learned.

Im not sure what I think about this quote anymore. On the surface, it makes perfect sense. But I also know that the past isnt a perfect predictor of the future. If it were, we would all be in the TSP millionaires club. You also have to consider the case where the validity of lesson learned from the past was wrong? It seems in that case a person would be better off not learning the lesson than learning it. (The much joked about Type 3 error.)

 

[luv2read]

History repeats itself. Humans seem to be the only species not to learn from its mistakes - or at least to ignore the lessons learned.

Im not sure what I think about this quote anymore.

The bolding is my own take on "history repeats itself." Gee, maybe one day I will be quoted, too!:laugh:

QUOTATION: If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience. George Bernard Shaw
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)

QUOTATION: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
ATTRIBUTION: George Santayana (1863-1952), U.S. philosopher, poet. Life of Reason, "Reason in Common Sense," ch. 12 (1905-6). William L. Shirer made these words the epigraph for his Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (1959).

 

[Silverbird]

Actually, humans are one of the few species with the ability to learn from mistakes. It's a shame when we don't, cause most other species are stuck with tried and true, or adapt or die.:blink:

 

[Steadygain]

No you're not.

Thank you Frixxx - appreciate your responses.

They never "owned" the land, but yes, they were here.
Every gov't took turns decimating tribes in North America. French, Spanish, English, Dutch, Portugese

In the truest sense - no one owns it other than the ONE that brought it into being. As "original inhabitants" it would seem they have rightful ownership. But too much has changed. I "own" my property only because the state or government is content with the taxes I pay and the way it's used. If they wanted it for any reason what so ever I would have no power to stop them from taking it.

Borders without security is anarchy. Security is control. No Security is no control.

Very well put - I fully agree - no argument here.

Economically, open borders are disasterous, unless you abolish social programs.

Ah - now we're on to something. UNLESS... that's exactly what I would do (or they would be vastly changed for the benefit of the whole).

Our infrastructure can barely support our current numbers.

Once again - we see eye to eye. But here the Infrastructure is the underlying problem. Look at Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac for instance and really do some research (especially with the books I'd mentioned on James' thread). My point is - new people comming in could make this country a whole lot better - especially if we reward those making contributions and not rewarding the opposite.

Our country is great for many reasons, immigrants made our country.

This is my whole point - "The Melting Pot" worked well. Those with determination, drive, energy, and valid efforts did well and shaped a solid foundation.

To support and sustain our great country, the control on people wanting to be here must be sustained. Those who truly want to be here should use the system, however long to gain there membership (citizenship).

Sorry - now I see how my previous post was probably projected. Whew - let me clarify - I do not support "illegals flooding our country" NO MATTER HOW THEY ENTER. I do however support Citizenship being a much easier process - open and welcoming to all who are willing to prove themselves as "Productive Citizens" bent on supporting the laws and making the country stronger and more secure.

So true!

Thanks Frixxxx - good comments

 

[Frixxxx]

Sorry - now I see how my previous post was probably projected. Whew - let me clarify - I do not support "illegals flooding our country" NO MATTER HOW THEY ENTER. I do however support Citizenship being a much easier process - open and welcoming to all who are willing to prove themselves as "Productive Citizens" bent on supporting the laws and making the country stronger and more secure.

Easier process yes, but it must be complete.

I can tell we see I-2-I on the majority of the issues. But then again I knew we would...Last post of the day for me....Be safe this 3-day weekend and God Bless!

 

[luv2read]

Easier process yes, but it must be complete.

I can tell we see I-2-I on the majority of the issues. But then again I knew we would...Last post of the day for me....Be safe this 3-day weekend and God Bless!

Easier and for the betterment of all....not to the detriment of taxpayers - citizens born, naturalized, or otherwise footing the bill for the ever-growing welfare state.

 

[Birchtree]

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com

 

[Birchtree]

Jiffy Lube,

I should have figured it was you - #158.

 

[Birchtree]

Then I'm safe to assume you were also involved in the negative reputation points delivered on Corepuncher's post #587 dated 8/23/08. That's a rather audacious position and blatantly arrogant on your part - what ever happened to fair treatment? It's not my fault you are #158 so let's try and use better judgement.

 

[ChemEng]

Sadly this election for me has become less about who is the right person for the job and more about who's the least wrong.



This was from one of his rallies this morning--It's so surreal that it almost seems like a SNL skit.



This is another propaganda ad, but is exactly the reason I can't vote for McCain.

 

[ChemEng]

So the solution for the Financials that created money out of thin air is for the Government to create money out of thin air? Great plan guys, really. Our tax dollars should bail out anyone who accepts a risk and loses money. Except it's not really accepting a risk, it's creating one. And it's not really anyone, just the really, really rich.

 

[ChemEng]

Umm no. You are absolutely wrong with this Birch. If it were the case, I would have told you in PM. You would also be well served to review the board's Terms of Service (#3 and #12 in particular). I really am disappointed that you chose to air your wrong opinion in public than dealing with me about it in private man-to-man.

Scott

Then I'm safe to assume you were also involved in the negative reputation points delivered on Corepuncher's post #587 dated 8/23/08. That's a rather audacious position and blatantly arrogant on your part - what ever happened to fair treatment? It's not my fault you are #158 so let's try and use better judgement.

 

[nnuut]

I think we all have our opinions about the candidates for the presidential race, but I see more and more Members Blatantly using this MB as a vehicle to promote their choice and Trash the other. This MB is here for promoting and improving your Retirement not as a political tool. Hey talk is OK and different opinions are alright, BUT this is going a bit too far, come on, give me a break!
Let's talk about financial issues and MONEY!!!

 

[XL-entLady]

I think we all have our opinions about the candidates for the presidential race, but I see more and more Members Blatantly using this MB as a vehicle to promote their choice and Trash the other. This MB is here for promoting and improving your Retirement not as a political tool. Hey talk is OK and different opinions are alright, BUT this is going a bit too far, come on, give me a break!
Let's talk about financial issues and MONEY!!!

Second!
The motion has been made and seconded. All in favor? :laugh:

Lady

 

[Silverbird]

Second!
The motion has been made and seconded. All in favor? :laugh:

Lady

Chocolate...ooops Aye! No one's changing their minds based on something on a financial board anyway.

 

[Braveheart]

Sadly this election for me has become less about who is the right person for the job and more about who's the least wrong.



This was from one of his rallies this morning--It's so surreal that it almost seems like a SNL skit.



This is another propaganda ad, but is exactly the reason I can't vote for McCain.

WHO IS SEN. BARACK OBAMA

Lehman Brothers collapse is traced back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two big mortgage banks that got a federal bailout a few weeks ago. Sen Barack Obama has even more low life friends. We know more about Gov. Palin in 2 weeks than Sen Obama in 2 years.

Freddie and Fannie used huge lobbying budgets and political contributions to keep regulators off their backs.
A group called the Center for Responsive Politics keeps track of which politicians get Fannie and Freddie political contributions. The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama.
Now remember, he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.
Fannie and Freddie have been creations of the congressional Democrats and the Clinton White House, designed to make mortgages available to more people and, as it turns out, some people who couldn't afford them.
Fannie and Freddie have also been places for big Washington Democrats to go to work in the semi-private sector and pocket millions. The Clinton administration's White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $50 million. Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $26 million. Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama's VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.