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Re: Uuuugggghhhh - The 'F Fund' is cr@p too...

Boghie said:
Don't like the 'G Fund' because our brothers in the Treasury will be lookin to 'borrow' some funds to fill up trucks with hyper inflated money next month.

Kinda obvious that the C/S/I funds ain't the place to be until FDR Jr. tells us about his Newer Deal.

I was worried about the 'F Fund'. Kinda scared that the fund's description told me that it contains 45% in asset-backed securities. Um. Ick. Yuk. Me thinks I have been hearign about Asset-Backed Securities in the news for a while.

Otherwise known as 'Toxic Assets'.:mad:

Now, JB comes out and slams my last Hope

Change.

Hope.

:sick:
Click to expand...

Now wait a minute - who says there's a disproportionate amount of failing mortgage loans in there, or are we presuming asset-backed loans are a losing venture as a whole? There are toxic assets, but this doesn't make them all toxic, or even a significant proportion, just some of them - and I don't wanna conclude that these are mixed into the F-fund. Just what are we labeling and concluding from the term "mortgage", and why:confused:?

And yeah, I'll bail on a rally - but can we have an up day, please?

HEY - LOOK AT THE TRACKER; 12 LUCKY DUCKS HAVE BEAT THE G-FUND.

MAY I PLEASE HAVE ANOTHER?
 
Yup, we've been buying Mortgage Backed Securities...

Amoeba,

MBSs' were considered very secure:p

Only the best and brightest could buy them;)

And, a rather small drop in bond prices could wipe out the meager growth (last year a massive 5%)...

Oh well, losing 10% in a year is starting to look pretty good, eh...

Anyway, don't listen to me on this stuff. I am not too knowledgeable on it. On trading you might want to review 350 or JB or BirchTree or Frixxx or SqualeBear or Poolman or JTH or CountryBoy or CorePuncher or Budnipper or Reactive or a number of others. I, in reality, am an ignorant lout who is probably swilling on cheap beer and smoking Tijana cigarettes as I type. In my underwear and wife-beater t-shirt no less.:embarrest:
 
Re: Uuuugggghhhh - The 'F Fund' is cr@p too...

amoeba said:
Now wait a minute - who says there's a disproportionate amount of failing mortgage loans in there, or are we presuming asset-backed loans are a losing venture as a whole? There are toxic assets, but this doesn't make them all toxic, or even a significant proportion, just some of them - and I don't wanna conclude that these are mixed into the F-fund.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is that we don't know if the assets they are invested in are toxic or not nor how much and I don't know how to find out. :( That summary told me definately could be invested that way which makes me cautious of the F Fund right now.
 
F-fund turns down for 6th straight day:

Thank you master, may I have another?

will submit IFT after today's deadline to pare down monday - no way for a 7th straight day, give me a flipping break!
 
That 'F Fund' Thangy...

Amoeba,

The 'F Fund' is down 0.48% this year. The 'G Fund' is up 0.14%. Whoopie!!!

I don't know if a Congress that is of the same party as the President will make noises about busting the debt ceiling - but, they may... If they do, then the Treasury will - with great regrets, of course - borrow from our collective 'G Fund' assets. They will pay it back with proper interest upon the inevitable credit line increase.

However, I don't know if the 'G Fund' assets will be frozen during that timeframe.

That is another reason I like the 'F Fund'. The Treasury has to respect the stripper rule - look, but you can't touch:cheesy:

Anyway, it is very difficult to 'trade' your way to prosperity in this market - especially when you are limited by the omnipresent trusties at TSP to only two forward trades. And, those trades actually occur hours after you make them. I for one, will reallocate to C/S/I more fully only when the economy improves. And, California/Florida/Michigan/New York will be dragging any growth into oblivion for the foreseeable future. Never thought I would say this – but we folk in the land of plenty (or more accurately the land of fruit and nuts) will soon be in depression. Maybe a big D.:(
 
amoeba said:
F-fund turns down for 6th straight day:

Thank you master, may I have another?

will submit IFT after today's deadline to pare down monday - no way for a 7th straight day, give me a flipping break!
Click to expand...


yes way - F-fund - down for a 7th straight day:

Thank you master, may I have another?:sick:

I think a turn is soon; come on - give me a couple up days!!!!! Otherwise, I will pare back again. This is ridiculous.
 
F Fund New Math...

Amoeba,

Maybe some others can shed some life on the 'F Fund' machinations...

My guess is that the AGG only displays the share price of the fund – and that dividends get compounded into the thang every night!!!

I think folks buy bonds for dividends, so each one would have a nice juicy paycheck coming due.

I may be wrong, so don’t take my word for it.

Just be happy

Be Happy

Happy


:toung:
 
Beets the sheet out of me what is going on:

Take a look at today's chart; AGG fell off a cliff at 2:30; maybe that's my dividend being paid. Otherwise - I go in the red for first time in over a year. I've been averaging out of this - took quite the spanking in 2 wks; why I even bother until the market drops below 700 is beyond me.

Maybe I like pain.:embarrest:
 
Re: F Fund New Math...

Boghie said:
Amoeba,

Maybe some others can shed some life on the 'F Fund' machinations...

My guess is that the AGG only displays the share price of the fund – and that dividends get compounded into the thang every night!!!
Click to expand...

Any fund you buy into (except G) is not buying into the listed index (i.e. you are not buying AGG or S&P500) you are buying into a index fund administered by Barclays that is invested similar to the tracked index but not exactly. I have beat my head against the wall trying to find a better model than the AGG to follow for the F Fund. I can't find one. Buying F Fund is investing in Barclay's US Debt Index Fund "E". The differences are IMO due to the minor differences in investments and the ishares AGG price listed is before any fees associated with buying the instruments.

Bottom line no one really knows what the F fund is going to pay on any given day. If AGG is stong positive or negative you know if you are going to win or lose. If the index is flat, flip a coin, I've made a few cents on days the AAG lost a little. Hope this helps a bit......
 
I've been trying to figure this out for 5 years. Sometimes it is predicable others it isn't. Basically, if the TNX and TYX are down the AGG is up BUT NOT always! Somebody knows but won't tell us the secret!!:cool:
 
Re: F Fund New Math...

justbizness45 said:
Any fund you buy into (except G) is not buying into the listed index (i.e. you are not buying AGG or S&P500) you are buying into a index fund administered by Barclays that is invested similar to the tracked index but not exactly. I have beat my head against the wall trying to find a better model than the AGG to follow for the F Fund. I can't find one. Buying F Fund is investing in Barclay's US Debt Index Fund "E". The differences are IMO due to the minor differences in investments and the ishares AGG price listed is before any fees associated with buying the instruments.

Bottom line no one really knows what the F fund is going to pay on any given day. If AGG is stong positive or negative you know if you are going to win or lose. If the index is flat, flip a coin, I've made a few cents on days the AAG lost a little. Hope this helps a bit......
Click to expand...

Well this explains why on May 2003, the tsp monthly returns deviated from the index fund monthly returns. The yearly returns showed Barclays funds (tsp returns) to be ~2% less than the index fund returns for 2003. In 2004, the yearly returns of the Barclay funds were ~1.5% less than the index fund return (which is what was used prior to May 2003 to calculate our investment returns). In 2005, the difference was ~1%, with the indexes perfoming better than Barclays funds. In 2006, there was almost no difference (~0.3%) between the index fund returns and the Barclay returns. This had me worried (I talked about this in my thread) and I still wonder why 2006 showed little difference, but 2003-2005 were to our disadvantage by greater than 1% each year:confused:
Thanks jb45.

This analysis was done on the C fund, but I expect that it will show the same deviation when the AGG is compared to the tsp F fund returns - a deviation to our disadvantage beginning May 2003 on the yearly returns.
 
Last edited:
If Barclay's posted US Debt Index Fund "E" quotes on their website it would fix everyones issues. However, it's not a publicly traded fund so it's not tracked anywhere.:suspicious:
 
Re: Yup, we've been buying Mortgage Backed Securities...

Boghie said:
On trading you might want to review 350 or JB or BirchTree or Frixxx or SqualeBear or Poolman or JTH or CountryBoy or CorePuncher or Budnipper or Reactive or a number of others.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the honorable mention and grouping with some of the
most knowledgable members on this Message Board. ;)
 
Well, well, well:

F-fund approached a 1% gain already this month. I'm still in 10% and moving up the temporarily-randomized tracker rankings - I think I may be in the 30's in rank now.

Hit a 4wk share price high of 12.58 yesterday; down to ~12.53 today. Not sure if this signals a wave of investment, or a short term rotation.

If it goes up too fast (12.70 or more), I will be looking for a cycle top to pull out before month's end; if a pullback, say - into the 12.40-12.45 category - I may double down.

F-fund still has the surprise factor of what the flip the share price will close at. Anyway, I'm not too far behind G-fund, FWIW.
 
Well:

F-fund is still range-bound - not a sell or buy; also AGG bounced big at the close today; will see if I can catch the G-fund (#14 in our tracker).
 
In six trading days we are off 1114 points - that does hurt but the turn can come at any moment. I don't pay that much attention to daily noise because the market is a future discounting mechanism - get ready for the market to take back those 1114 points in one day. The subprime debate of toxic assets is still only affecting 3% of the banks balance sheets while the majority of loans are performing - this fear will change and then the buyers will return.
 
Funny you mentioned 1000 points in one day. Rush was saying the same thing on his show today. Not that he is some financial wizard.
 
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