U.S. National Debt: Not so bad?

[James48843]

... Anti-tax people weigh in, what would you do in this instance? sell your house and move away and let someone else worry about no/insufficient fire protection for your residence?

Hmmm. One problem is relying on the fire department to come put your fire out. If THAT is the only way to protect a structure, then you're putting a lot of trust into other folks hands....

Have you ever considered home sprinkler systems?
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/citizens/all_citizens/home_fire_prev/sprinklers/
Not very expensive- about $1 a square foot when doing new construction, and it lowers your insurance bill considerably, as well as catches fires in a much earlier state than what happens when you are waiting for the fire department to show up.

I had a grass fire one time years back- I was out trying to battle it, and called the fire department on the cell phone, but it still took almost 15 minutes for a truck and some guys to get here. When the fire is burning, that's a LOT of time. Sprinklers look very, very inviting when you've had an experience like that.

 

[alevin]

There is always the freedom to organize a Volunteer Fire Department to serve your community if folks think the available Organization is not serving the community well or the costs are too high. Of course Volunteer Fire Departments aren't cheap but if qualified there is probably Local or state funds available for qualifying areas.

True, true. I've also lived in areas with VFDs. My current area would probably have to develop a ballot measure and vote (plebiscite) to abolish the local fire taxation district which has been in place over 30 years. The special district property taxes don't go away, just because the contract with the city gets broken. Whether we could get enough voter engagement to disband the special property tax district would be yet another challenge and then ensuring we had enough committment from enough people to get RFD in place quickly as substitute. Logistics, logistics. It doesn't absolve us of the $35K debt we owe the city from last year either.

Jim, I like the idea of overhead sprinklers. that one hadn't occurred to me. Would they be viable in winter conditions or have to be blown out-winterized like my yard system?

 

[CountryBoy]

Thanks for the response, CB. I'm tempted to print up flyers to stick in everyone's mailboxes (maybe 400) between today and tomorrow morning. The election is this coming Tuesday.

The community is an older residential neighborhood, a mix-probably 40% renters, 60% homeowners, many retirees. The absentee landlords don't get to vote on behalf of their properties, only residents get to vote. The renters can always move away-unless they can't find something cheaper. Had 3 house fires within a block of me over the past 6 years, 1 right next door, one across the street, and 1 two houses over.

Most of my immediate neighbors vote for the increased levy, along with school district increases, but I do personally know some of the anti-taxers-retirees, heck, I even worked with one until he retired about 3 years ago-lives just up the block and around the corner from me. I do constantly think about fire danger and ways to protect my own property-problem is we live too close together if something gets started-unless there is fire protection infrastructure response quickly available. Anti-taxers here seem to lack common sense and longrange thinking re local taxes and what we get for them. Glad your area that isn't so.

Good Luck alevin,

Hopefully the anti-taxers will wake up to the fact that any infrastructure improvement not only improves the value of their property, but also makes the entire area, more attractive to outsiders moving in and increased potential for future business development. Hopefully they'll see what a little investment now, will bring in the future.

CB

 

[coolhand]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...31441797424.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

House Republicans on the Budget Committee added up the 2009 appropriations, the stimulus funding and 2010 budgets and found that federal agencies will, on average, receive a 57% increase in appropriated funds from 2008-2010. By contrast, real family incomes fell by 3.6% last year. There's no recession in Washington.

More broadly, the White House and the 111th Congress have already enacted or proposed $3.4 trillion of new spending through 2019 for things like the health-care plan, cap and tax, and the children's health bill passed earlier this year. Very little of this has been financed with offsetting spending cuts elsewhere in the budget.

 

[Show-me]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...31441797424.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

House Republicans on the Budget Committee added up the 2009 appropriations, the stimulus funding and 2010 budgets and found that federal agencies will, on average, receive a 57% increase in appropriated funds from 2008-2010. By contrast, real family incomes fell by 3.6% last year. There's no recession in Washington.

More broadly, the White House and the 111th Congress have already enacted or proposed $3.4 trillion of new spending through 2019 for things like the health-care plan, cap and tax, and the children's health bill passed earlier this year. Very little of this has been financed with offsetting spending cuts elsewhere in the budget.

OMG this is just spinning out of control.

 

[Show-me]

View attachment 7066

 

[grandma]

http://tinyurl.com/yl85umt

Apparently since in the '60s we've had an opportunity to help pay down the debts! And we apparently have not taken full advantage of it - considering it is TAX DEDUCTIBLE!!!
Now, who among us would refuse our next-door neighbor the keys to our car, the last of our liquor stash, and our most recent paycheck to enable him to not only pay off his current tabs across the county, but then, to also return to us our next payday to repeat the procedure, with the difference being he hadn't paid off the tabs, but now shows an exponential growth in his personal debt, & the number of tabs has spread across the seas.
The debt clock posted earlier showed each U.S. citizens' share, changing by the nano-nano-second. But it doesn't show any stopping of spending even if paying down on individuals' families' debt was considered as a legal part of the solution.....

..so why bother to even think on it? Money better spent at the Food Pantries, at the Vet's Homes, to the USO, at your church's missions....

 

[FAB1]

The Goobermint: I am, therefore I spend. (with no end in sight) :laugh:

 

[wwwtractor]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Federal+Deficit+Hits+Record

 

[alevin]

Several different directions we could still go-it will all become clear eventually, maybe only in hindsight unfortunately-Congress and market movers will say gee, we didn't see that one coming.

http://www.businessinsider.com/socg...1#first-it-starts-with-sky-high-public-debt-1

 

[phil]

The debt picture is really bad. Here's why it's so bad. Republicans have borrowed money to fund bizarre things. Democrats keep having to pay off the debt, especially now. Just look at the last 30 years.

 

[mick504]

Money to a politician is like drugs to a drug addict! Just can't stop taking it!

 

[mick504]

Obama has spent/obligated more in 9 months than Bill Clinton AKA Slick Willy...spent over his 8 years. I know Bill you hate that term...but I didn't give it to you! Obama is spending alot of money on programs that are going no where....not creating jobs like he is supposed to be doing. Just bailing out states that cannot control their budgets and spending habits. That's what the bailout was and is being used for.....promoting socialist programs that do not do much for the country at all. Focus man focus...on the job at hand.

 

[phil]

Gosh. I wish I'd heard that 8 years ago! Oh well.

Money to a politician is like drugs to a drug addict! Just can't stop taking it!

 

[Kill Joy]

While it is indeed unfortunate, I agree with Mick504. The election was similar to that of old shamans being selected by a tribe for their ability to conjure rain (promising the impossible)... Obama simply cannot complete his agenda as promised (many saw this from day one). This has the terrible side effect of forcing very important and complex legislation through the legislative pipeline faster than it should without the critique/input from experts in the field. For example, my PhD in Economics has a concentration in Healthcare, and yet I am admittedly quite confused as to how the current bill will do anything but raise costs for the consumer while simultaneously lowering reimbursement to the provider.

 

[phil]

http://bigthink.com/davidcutler

David Cutler's talk on healthcare reform.

 

[alevin]

Happy New Year everybody! May we all do at least as well as we did last year, if not better. It will be a challenge fit for the best of traders. (and I don't count myself as one of the best, just one of the least of the worst-on a 2 year basis, that is). I intend to pull up my score this coming year, was way too conservative this year .

What we are facing down today is a fifty year Ponzi scheme. Drill that into your head folks - for fifty years we have created false output gains, with the last 40 of those years having between 15-20% of each year's supposed "GDP" not created by the work of people, but by BORROWING MORE MONEY which will have to be repaid with interest.
This is why we hit the wall in 2007.
To run an increase in GDP of about 5%, as so many "pundits" are claiming we will going forward, we would have to increase the total debt in the system to roughly $90 trillion dollars from the present $53 trillion over the next ten years.
That debt would, of course, need to be serviced. And nobody in their right mind can possibly believe that government could take on another $37 trillion - when the current oustanding public debt is just seven trillion (that is, government would have to increase its debt by 500%!)
If you take nothing else away from this Year in Review Ticker, it should be that singular chart above and a decent understanding of what it means:

To come back into equilibrium, assuming we do not decrease debt in the system at all, we would have to shrink GDP by about 20%. But shrinking GDP means that money available to pay down debt would also decrease which would generate even more defaults.
This is how deflationary depressions happen - years, even decades of playing Ponzi by layering debt upon debt. Bernanke and Geithner, along with President Obama, are well-aware of these facts which is why they are all pounding the table demanding that banks "loan more."
The problem with such a prescription is that the wise person won't borrow, for he knows what's coming. The unwise has no collateral to pledge, and thus can't borrow.
If the government forces (either by persuasion or legislation) lending to those who can't pay they only extend the Ponzi and in doing so make the inevitable collapse WORSE.
​

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

 

[Kill Joy]

Hello all,

Again, thank you all for your wonderful comments and personal emails. As of November of last year, I have been focused on researching the healthcare policy (in regards to National Debt). It is the focus of my education and a true passion of mine. However, this time I feel that I am drawn to this process much like those who can’t look away from an impending accident; they simply must continue watching. In my opinion, this will have a very parasitic effect on the National Debt of our country, as the debt does not stem from capitalistic investment, but rather inefficient healthcare administration.

I write this now to ensure that my original opinion does not get misconstrued by the avid readers of this site. I believe that in most cases a modest national debt is actually a good thing. However, I am increasingly fearful of the healthcare bill that may come to pass. If it does, I will begin a thread that will periodically annotate the complex degradation of both the QOC (Quality of Care) as well as the increase in costs that will soon place further burden on this nation to once again reform healthcare.

I would love any opinions that could alleviate my fears, but so far the most common statement from some of my ideologically opposed colleges is simply that it is “better than nothing”… Sorry to be a kill joy, but this I fear the most.

 

[mick504]

Sorry but Moody's stated today that the US...as well as UK are closer to loosing their AAA rating....I just guess we'll have to pay them more interest to get money....cause of all our debt. Oh well....! LIfe goes on!

 

[Show-me]

I look forward to your postings. Thanks.