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U.S. National Debt: Not so bad?
- Thread starter Kill Joy
- Start date
grandma
Well-known member
okay - move this one, too !! I was apparently still typing when you did it - please... & thank you!
grandma
Well-known member
And if we do continue, or increase, the amount of free aid, which foreign entity should the U. S. Government borrow from to increase what is already being done? ...seeing as how we, the US Gov'ment, are deep in debt. And if we are going to borrow that from someone else, why not just request them to do it in their own name? ...save us more interest debt, spread a little bit of Good Will for themselves?
The American citizens individually & collectively in church & other groupings are doing more than their fair share in sending physical & monetary relief... (that brings up another Kettle-of-fish regarding potential loss of ANY individual or business for tax credit for charity.)
Buster
Well-known member
Yes, Steve and I both are advid SOONERs and fans of the OU team...Unfortunately, in case you've missed what this year's Football season has been like for our boys..it has been dissappointing...I don't think we'll even see a bowl game this year, unless we win every single game here to the end of the season...Currently, we have 3 losses with total losing points adding up to 5..
Now back to your economics thread..sorry for the wayward banter..but some people just track in the manure.
First of all, I would like to say thanks to all of you who read my post! I am pleasantly surprised with the number of intelligent remarks and excellent questions (especially in regards to Japan).
Currently, I am stationed in Japan and have had the wonderful privilege of discussing the nation’s economic strategy and challenges with some very influential Japanese economists here. It is truly a great country, but I for one am still quite grateful to be an American (due both to my unwavering patriotism and optimistic view of our current worldly economic stature and acumen).
As I am not one to ramble, I will get straight to the point:
Sdouglas3: A fellow Sooner! You indeed ask some great questions. I will attempt to answer them, please let me know if I fail to do so sufficiently:
In regards to a resolution, I do not see that there even needs to be one, as I stated earlier, I do not even see a “situation”. You mention very astutely the point that you have to invest money to stimulate growth. Our government is doing just that! We are applying the “debt” as an investment to the Capital of this country (as opposed to China’s investment in Labor or Japan’s investment in Land; as both coutries lack those specific factors of production). Any economist will tell you that Capital investment (the investment of human capital that is), produces by far the best returns! Growth does indeed promote jobs and stimulate the economy, and nothing promotes growth like innovation (both technological and entrepreneurship). I guess the best measure that could be used would be to look at past ND percentages of the GNP, and then compare that to future Growth rates (returns on human capital as an investment are not seen for 5-7 years; as an example, look at what the simple creation of the internet has done to boost profit margins to both virtual and brick-and-mortar companies… It did not happen overnight, and required vast initial investment). Hope that provokes some thought Sdouglas3.
Bullitt: China is a sore spot for me, as I see it as a great opportunity to learn Economic Development of a previously LDC (Lesser Developed Country) into a giant! I will be writing a new thread, and will be sure to answer your questions as well as create some even more debatable analysis that I hope will spur further discussion! Sorry that I did not answer your question here and now, but it is a very complex question that is masked by a short sentence…
Lacaprup: I will answer your questions as well as I can (some in the form of a rhetorical question; mirroring the old teaching methods of Socrates):
You say: Japanese dept is held, by and large, by the Japanese. American dept is help by asians and arabs.
I propose: In an increasingly globalized world, it is imperative to spread the risk. America has done so by creating ownership for other countries… More amply put, think of it like a company and its shareholders (but with one major difference) in that after the investor buys the stock, the company has no obligation to share any profits with the investor, though some due through dividends, with the major difference being that no matter what, the other countries get no say in how the company runs… Seems like a good deal to me! Hope that analogy illustrates my point, as I must admit that analogies are my weak point.
You say: Personal saving in Japan is far higher than in the U.S.
I say: What must be remember with this, however, like any equations, is that there are other variables. Most importantly, are consumption and investment. With consumption being roughly equal (when per capita comparisons are made and distribution of goods taken into account), the true difference lies in investment, and it is true that American invest more and save less (there is a difference). Over the long term, which method usually produces greater returns?
2Easy: Ignoring the obvious inhumanity of inaction in the face of disaster, there are indeed many reasons that aid should not only be given, but I submit that it be increased (though allocated differently). To advocate my point, I will refer to the works of Dr. Muhammad Yunus. His use of direct aid (through small business loans) not only increased the living standards of countless individuals, but proved to be a successful business in itself (with, if I am not mistaken, a 97% repay rate)! Imagine such a venture on a larger scale, and you will have a true economist’s solution to many problems facing LDC’s. This is often debated, and I am amazed at the lack of thought that is offered in contradiction to the statement “Let’s stop giving to others and focus on us…”. Thank you for giving me the fuel to begin what will be my third thread on these boards. I may indeed become a regular! Thanks!
Ummm… Wow, I have read the rest of the posts and I guess that threads are often reduced to reciprocating arguments and insults. Oh well, perhaps this post will realign the comments back to the relevant topics.
Please let me know what you all think!
Currently, I am stationed in Japan and have had the wonderful privilege of discussing the nation’s economic strategy and challenges with some very influential Japanese economists here. It is truly a great country, but I for one am still quite grateful to be an American (due both to my unwavering patriotism and optimistic view of our current worldly economic stature and acumen).
As I am not one to ramble, I will get straight to the point:
Sdouglas3: A fellow Sooner! You indeed ask some great questions. I will attempt to answer them, please let me know if I fail to do so sufficiently:
In regards to a resolution, I do not see that there even needs to be one, as I stated earlier, I do not even see a “situation”. You mention very astutely the point that you have to invest money to stimulate growth. Our government is doing just that! We are applying the “debt” as an investment to the Capital of this country (as opposed to China’s investment in Labor or Japan’s investment in Land; as both coutries lack those specific factors of production). Any economist will tell you that Capital investment (the investment of human capital that is), produces by far the best returns! Growth does indeed promote jobs and stimulate the economy, and nothing promotes growth like innovation (both technological and entrepreneurship). I guess the best measure that could be used would be to look at past ND percentages of the GNP, and then compare that to future Growth rates (returns on human capital as an investment are not seen for 5-7 years; as an example, look at what the simple creation of the internet has done to boost profit margins to both virtual and brick-and-mortar companies… It did not happen overnight, and required vast initial investment). Hope that provokes some thought Sdouglas3.
Bullitt: China is a sore spot for me, as I see it as a great opportunity to learn Economic Development of a previously LDC (Lesser Developed Country) into a giant! I will be writing a new thread, and will be sure to answer your questions as well as create some even more debatable analysis that I hope will spur further discussion! Sorry that I did not answer your question here and now, but it is a very complex question that is masked by a short sentence…
Lacaprup: I will answer your questions as well as I can (some in the form of a rhetorical question; mirroring the old teaching methods of Socrates):
You say: Japanese dept is held, by and large, by the Japanese. American dept is help by asians and arabs.
I propose: In an increasingly globalized world, it is imperative to spread the risk. America has done so by creating ownership for other countries… More amply put, think of it like a company and its shareholders (but with one major difference) in that after the investor buys the stock, the company has no obligation to share any profits with the investor, though some due through dividends, with the major difference being that no matter what, the other countries get no say in how the company runs… Seems like a good deal to me! Hope that analogy illustrates my point, as I must admit that analogies are my weak point.
You say: Personal saving in Japan is far higher than in the U.S.
I say: What must be remember with this, however, like any equations, is that there are other variables. Most importantly, are consumption and investment. With consumption being roughly equal (when per capita comparisons are made and distribution of goods taken into account), the true difference lies in investment, and it is true that American invest more and save less (there is a difference). Over the long term, which method usually produces greater returns?
2Easy: Ignoring the obvious inhumanity of inaction in the face of disaster, there are indeed many reasons that aid should not only be given, but I submit that it be increased (though allocated differently). To advocate my point, I will refer to the works of Dr. Muhammad Yunus. His use of direct aid (through small business loans) not only increased the living standards of countless individuals, but proved to be a successful business in itself (with, if I am not mistaken, a 97% repay rate)! Imagine such a venture on a larger scale, and you will have a true economist’s solution to many problems facing LDC’s. This is often debated, and I am amazed at the lack of thought that is offered in contradiction to the statement “Let’s stop giving to others and focus on us…”. Thank you for giving me the fuel to begin what will be my third thread on these boards. I may indeed become a regular! Thanks!
Ummm… Wow, I have read the rest of the posts and I guess that threads are often reduced to reciprocating arguments and insults. Oh well, perhaps this post will realign the comments back to the relevant topics.
Please let me know what you all think!
You give up? Then I'm the last man standing.
Me, I'm just trying to keep our troops and my country safe from people who want to take advantage of their patriotism, and put them at risk for no reason.
Lessons learned from Iraq and Vietnam: Don't invade a country, especially if they haven't done anything to you. Don't spend money you don't have.
So, after 20 years of military involvement in Vietnam, what do we have to show for it?
Me, I'm just trying to keep our troops and my country safe from people who want to take advantage of their patriotism, and put them at risk for no reason.
Lessons learned from Iraq and Vietnam: Don't invade a country, especially if they haven't done anything to you. Don't spend money you don't have.
So, after 20 years of military involvement in Vietnam, what do we have to show for it?
Buster
Well-known member
I'm sure that the Vietnamese feel the same way. It's too bad we didn't walk away from that war before it started.
Old School mentality and we should have and did learned from that disgrace of how it was handled in VN and portrayed by the media here in the States..I spit on the people that Spit on our returning GIs....Let's not have a repeat is what you should be saying.
Cut and run? Nice turn of a phrase, but we're walking away from this one. It really wasn't necessary in the first place.
As usual Phil, you twisted a point to your line of thinking..You either missed my point deliberately or selectively, or you just like to take the low road on everything...I give up.
Have you made any finacial investing contributions about the market and TSP funds here yet?..Just wondering
I'm sure that the Vietnamese feel the same way. It's too bad we didn't walk away from that war before it started.
Now, we're faced with the same question, and it appears that we've made the right decision. We're leaving Iraq now, pulling out our troops. I remember hearing the previous administration saying that it was going to be a short war. But I knew differently then. The only problem that you seem to have, is that after 7 years....you probably know it too.
Cut and run? Nice turn of a phrase, but we're walking away from this one. It really wasn't necessary in the first place.
The only people who want to stay seems to be the people who are making money on the matter......defense contractors.
Now, we're faced with the same question, and it appears that we've made the right decision. We're leaving Iraq now, pulling out our troops. I remember hearing the previous administration saying that it was going to be a short war. But I knew differently then. The only problem that you seem to have, is that after 7 years....you probably know it too.
Cut and run? Nice turn of a phrase, but we're walking away from this one. It really wasn't necessary in the first place.
The only people who want to stay seems to be the people who are making money on the matter......defense contractors.
Buster
Well-known member
Me etherNo false assumptions here. Like many things it's a matter of interpretation. I interpret Phil's statement about the Iraq war being a waste as disrespectful to our troops. They gave their lives in service of this country and I will not stand by and let an ultraliberal elitist trivialize their deaths by calling it a waste as if their sacrifice meant nothing!
Viva_La_Migra
Well-known member
No false assumptions here. Like many things it's a matter of interpretation. I interpret Phil's statement about the Iraq war being a waste as disrespectful to our troops. They gave their lives in service of this country and I will not stand by and let an ultraliberal elitist trivialize their deaths by calling it a waste as if their sacrifice meant nothing!
grandma
Well-known member
.....USG?..What's USG?
All I can think of is, United States Gypsum ..and that ain't no Government agency..they sell Dry wall..
and probably that poisonous Chinese stuff at that; that has ruined a good many post-hurricaine families in Florida & where-ever else... That may answer a few questions...! :blink:
Frixxxx
Moderator
Well,
I would figure that since this board is for those who invest through TSP, it would be more civil servants and military people. If your saying that contractors are showing up here to do more than talk about investing in TSP, I would be surprised as there are way more sites that cater to political discussions.
So, yeah, I guess I'm saying your contractor statement makes little sense to me.
BTW: on topic...we owe more now.....
now we owe more.......
we owe more now.....
I would figure that since this board is for those who invest through TSP, it would be more civil servants and military people. If your saying that contractors are showing up here to do more than talk about investing in TSP, I would be surprised as there are way more sites that cater to political discussions.
So, yeah, I guess I'm saying your contractor statement makes little sense to me.
BTW: on topic...we owe more now.....
now we owe more.......
we owe more now.....