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alevin said:
On the points question re at minimum, a person places last based on participation vs no place at all for nonplay: by "enter", we mean "register"?

but for clarity, under a Con vote-if a person only registers and plays 1 of 13 tournaments, and ended up last in that one game, for example, are you saying that anyone who plays, for example 6 games and ends last place every time, would end up higher in the ranks for the season than the person who only played 1 tournament and ended up last in that particular tournament?

and for clarity, under a Con vote-would a person who registers for 6 of 13 tournaments but never makes it to any of the games, end up lower place for the season than a person who only registered for 6 and played all 6 tournaments and came in last every time of the people who actually played in those tournaments?

seeking yes/no answers to those 2 questions, making sure I understand what the Con vote about participation points actually means in application.
Click to expand...

Lol...K0n wrote that CON argument. I have no clue as to what he's talking about. :)

But, if I may try to explain this again:

Under the current, k0n supported system:
Suppose John pays for 6 tourneys, places last in each tourney; he receives zero points. Someone that didn't play any tourneys also receives zero points. Fair?

Under my proposed system:
Suppose Jane pays for 6 tourneys, places last in each tourney; she receives some points. Someone that didn't play any tourneys receives zero points. Fair?

For the life of me, I can't understand how the first system would be desirable. Maybe it's just me.

Under k0n's system, a new, just-learning-the-game player wouldn't feel so good about the club when s/he doesn't see his/her score grow each week, like everyone else's, and worse, stays the same as players that haven't even bought in once in the whole season.

Please feel free to ask me any additional questions about this :)
 
a 'Yes' would mean there WOULD be 'participation points'. So someone who got last place in 13 games would have more points than someone that got last place in 1 game. Or even probably 2nd from last in one game.

'No' would mean no change to current way. means last place would continue to get 0 points, the same as someone who doesn't register at all. This is how the points function was intended to do.

The people that register but don't play, and just get blinded out are not covered under this vote, its a seperate issue.
alevin said:
On the points question re at minimum, a person places last based on participation vs no place at all for nonplay: by "enter", we mean "register"?

but for clarity, under a Con vote-if a person only registers and plays 1 of 13 tournaments, and ended up last in that one game, for example, are you saying that anyone who plays, for example 6 games and ends last place every time, would end up higher in the ranks for the season than the person who only played 1 tournament and ended up last in that particular tournament?

and for clarity, under a Con vote-would a person who registers for 6 of 13 tournaments but never makes it to any of the games, end up lower place for the season than a person who only registered for 6 and played all 6 tournaments and came in last every time of the people who actually played in those tournaments?

seeking yes/no answers to those 2 questions, making sure I understand what the Con vote about participation points actually means in application.
Click to expand...
 
Remember, under the default PokerStar point system, and most point systems, only the top 2 or 3 people get points. EVERYONE else gets 0. So that is what we went from, to everyone except last place gets 0.

I mentioned this way back when we made the move, explained my train of thought on it, and I don't recall anyone protesting; But I understand thats likely because no one put much (or any) thought into it.

I Personally believe getting last place doesn't deserve points, because you didn't beat anyone. I don't understand why you would want to give participation points.
 
k0nkuzh0n said:
a 'Yes' would mean there WOULD be 'participation points'. So someone who got last place in 13 games would have more points than someone that got last place in 1 game. Or even probably 2nd from last in one game.
Click to expand...

...and someone that got 3rd in 13 games would have more points than someone that got 3rd in 1 game.....so......what's your point?

k0nkuzh0n said:
'No' would mean no change to current way. means last place would continue to get 0 points, the same as someone who doesn't register at all. This is how the points function was intended to do.

The people that register but don't play, and just get blinded out are not covered under this vote, its a seperate issue.
Click to expand...

Lol...unless you're doing something with the stats I don't know about. They would be. And they should be. Research standard poker rules.

PS doesn't care if you play a hand or not. The stats are the stats. If you don't show, and everyone strangely folds to you. You win, regardless whether you sit down or not.

No casino I know of, real or online, treats any player differently dependent upon whether they actually sit down at the table. You paid like everyone else. You paid blinds and antes like everyone else. You get points based upon where you place, like everyone else. Or you should be.

Folks, you should also consider having a 'trustee' to verify that the stats are correct from game to game. It is not so difficult, and could help prevent huge problems later on.

Nothing against k0n, but we all can make mistakes. Trust, but verify. :)
 
k0nkuzh0n said:
Remember, under the default PokerStar point system, and most point systems, only the top 2 or 3 people get points. EVERYONE else gets 0. So that is what we went from, to everyone except last place gets 0.

I mentioned this way back when we made the move, explained my train of thought on it, and I don't recall anyone protesting; But I understand thats likely because no one put much (or any) thought into it.

I Personally believe getting last place doesn't deserve points, because you didn't beat anyone. I don't understand why you would want to give participation points.
Click to expand...

And the reason you advocated strongly to change the way PS does it is because you didn't think it was fair, expect you thought is was fair that last place get nothing, as you state above.

However, my opinion, for the stated reasons, disagrees. I think the last place should also get points.

Good debate folks. I have no dog in this, just want folks to make an informed decision, whatever it'll be.
 
Here is a crazy idea. How about instead of voting on every little thing, we just let those delegated to their respective roles decide, and they can ask for input as they seem fit.

For example, Tom, or whoever ends up being respondible for scheduling, decides when the seasons start and end, and whether or not its synced up with pokerstar's hardcoded quartlery dates.

In the grand scheme of things, It really doesn't matter if it starts Tomorrow, in june, or july. or whether the season is 3 or 4 months. Or whether we use the top 8 or top 10 or top 100. At the end of the day, there will be the same number of games available to play (1 per week) and everyone will still have the exact same oppertunity to play in and win each individual game.
 
Last edited:
1. I go to Vegas and place $20 "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I get nothing.
2. I don't play the tables in Vegas. I get nothing.

Seems fair.

1. I go to Vegas and place $20 on "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I lose my $20 but I get free drinks.
2. I don't play the table in Vegas. I don't lose my $20. I don't get free drinks.

Still Fair.


When does fun start start? :blink:
 
jpcavin said:
1. I go to Vegas and place $20 "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I get nothing.
2. I don't play the tables in Vegas. I get nothing.

Seems fair.

1. I go to Vegas and place $20 on "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I lose my $20 but I get free drinks.
2. I don't play the table in Vegas. I don't lose my $20. I don't get free drinks.

Still Fair.


When does fun start start? :blink:
Click to expand...

What does 3rd place get?

Lol...you may want to sit this discussion out.
 
userque said:
Lol...unless you're doing something with the stats I don't know about. They would be. And they should be. Research standard poker rules.

PS doesn't care if you play a hand or not. The stats are the stats. If you don't show, and everyone strangely folds to you. You win, regardless whether you sit down or not.

No casino I know of, real or online, treats any player differently dependent upon whether they actually sit down at the table. You paid like everyone else. You paid blinds and antes like everyone else. You get points based upon where you place, like everyone else. Or you should be.

Folks, you should also consider having a 'trustee' to verify that the stats are correct from game to game. It is not so difficult, and could help prevent huge problems later on.

Nothing against k0n, but we all can make mistakes. Trust, but verify. :)
Click to expand...
What are you even talking about? You might want to re-read the past few pages. Specifically the stuff Gata posted about people registering but not playing.

I was answering winter's question. I wasn't making any kind of statement. You literally just made the same arguement that I already made earlier.
 
Isn't that done every week, when we post the results?
userque said:
Folks, you should also consider having a 'trustee' to verify that the stats are correct from game to game. It is not so difficult, and could help prevent huge problems later on.

Nothing against k0n, but we all can make mistakes. Trust, but verify. :)
Click to expand...
 
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here to provide information. Take it for what it's worth. Again, I no longer have a dog in this fight. :)
 
Even if you lose, Q will give you some participation points to feel better :laugh:
jpcavin said:
1. I go to Vegas and place $20 "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I get nothing.
2. I don't play the tables in Vegas. I get nothing.

Seems fair.

1. I go to Vegas and place $20 on "odd" on Roulette Table. It lands on "even", I lose my $20 but I get free drinks.
2. I don't play the table in Vegas. I don't lose my $20. I don't get free drinks.

Still Fair.


When does fun start start? :blink:
Click to expand...
 
While I won't be as funny as the Clown Couple, I'll be here all night. :)
2KGI5X.png
 
"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."



Suppose John is a new player and club member. He plays 13 games that season. The fewer "best games" that count, the better for johnny; because he was improving all season, and had fewer good games.

Suppose Jane is a pro player and new club member. She plays 13 games that season. The more "best games" that count, the better for Jane ; because she is a pro, and played well all season, and had many good games.

Counting more games per season hurts weaker players.



Suppose John is a new player and club member. He plays 13 games that season. He placed last several times. Allowing players to receive points for last place helped John.

Suppose Jane is a pro player and new club member. She plays 13 games that season. She never placed last. Allowing players to not receive points for last place helped Jane.

Giving zero points for last place hurts weaker players.



I have advocated for improvements that would make the game more attractive to new members and new players--and less beneficial to me personally. In all cases, the proposals received fierce (as you have seen) opposition from many of the better players, or their sidekicks.

Many sports incorporate 'handicaps' to make the game more fair to beginners. This place is like bizarro world to me. :D

I think it's sad when experienced players attempt to convenience less experienced players that certain factors are to their benefit, when they simply are not.

Good Luck everyone. If there are any more performances tonight, the show will continue tomorrow...I've got some new material I'm hoping someone will give me a chance to test out. :D
 
This is from March 1st:
k0nkuzh0n said:
sure can.
The points system is an equation:
View attachment 37395
slight modifications from source: https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/leader-board/explained/
Modifications:
1. Removed adjustments for buy-in price
2. Subtracted last place's points from everyone
2. Changed scalar from 10 to 2 so points are more inline with what we previous used. This can be anything, it doesn't really matter other than whether or not you look at decimals.
Click to expand...

Here is the comparison of the two different scoring system. On the left, is with last place getting points. On the right is last place gets 0 points. As you can see, everyone gets the scalar (in this case 2) as 'participation' points.
Across the top (2-10): # of people in the tournament
Down the left (2-10): Place an individual finished
Table value: Points earned for each finishing place, for each size of a tournament.


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