voodoostation
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Shutdown is here.
- Thread starter James48843
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voodoostation
New Contributor
- Reaction score
- 15
Could you imagine the VA being scaled up 35 times? And dumping government money into paying medical care looks exactly like dumping government money into higher education tuition. Single payer, universal healthcare is not the answer, unless you really like waiting months for x-rays, MRI's, surgeries, etc.
I also believe the longevity issue is a diet and lifestyle issue predominately. We are a rotund nation. Pump us full of pills and shots, but don't call us fat.
- Reaction score
- 2,092
Healthcare is an issue, but if the gov't is going to remain shut until they agree on affordable healthcare for Americans and non-Americans, well, good luck.
Or, they could open up the government and then work on it, understanding that it could take weeks, months or years. I don't think there's a solution that will make everyone happy, but we could all be unhappy with the govt open.
Or, they could open up the government and then work on it, understanding that it could take weeks, months or years. I don't think there's a solution that will make everyone happy, but we could all be unhappy with the govt open.
JTH
TSP Legend
- Reaction score
- 1,035
I just want to add, this idea that a single-payer system always means long lines and no choice is a bit of a false narrative, it’s not universally true. In most countries with public healthcare systems, people who want faster access or extra services can buy supplemental insurance or private care. The base coverage gives everyone security, and those who want more can pay for more if they choose.
Since I've been here 10 years, I'll use Poland as an example. Everyone gets basic public health coverage through the National Health Fund (NFZ), which covers most essential care, doctor visits, hospital stays, surgeries, maternity. For routine needs and emergencies, it’s usually enough and costs you nothing for service. But if you want faster appointments, shorter wait times for specialists, or extras like private rooms or extra screenings, then you can buy supplemental private insurance or just pay out-of-pocket at private clinics like I do. These medical packages cost about often $30–$70 per month, and most middle income folks I know have them.
But there's a catch, to have a system like this, you’d have to fundamentally rebuild the way U.S. healthcare corporations and profit-driven insurance control the market. As long as hospitals and drug makers overcharge Medicare, it’s impossible to guarantee basic care for everyone while still allowing upgrades for those who want them.
The whole system would have to shift from maximizing profit to actually serving people’s health. At the moment, all of us are both indirectly and directly paying for Medicare and private insurance, and we pay about 4X more than the average country because of inflated charges across the whole system. And as for the famed U.S. healthcare that some people brag about, it’s really just the top 20% of high-tech care that 80% of us will never have access to anyway.
As an example, my daughter needs a new tooth implant, she could fly here, get it done, fly back and save over 1K in the process.
Since I've been here 10 years, I'll use Poland as an example. Everyone gets basic public health coverage through the National Health Fund (NFZ), which covers most essential care, doctor visits, hospital stays, surgeries, maternity. For routine needs and emergencies, it’s usually enough and costs you nothing for service. But if you want faster appointments, shorter wait times for specialists, or extras like private rooms or extra screenings, then you can buy supplemental private insurance or just pay out-of-pocket at private clinics like I do. These medical packages cost about often $30–$70 per month, and most middle income folks I know have them.
But there's a catch, to have a system like this, you’d have to fundamentally rebuild the way U.S. healthcare corporations and profit-driven insurance control the market. As long as hospitals and drug makers overcharge Medicare, it’s impossible to guarantee basic care for everyone while still allowing upgrades for those who want them.
The whole system would have to shift from maximizing profit to actually serving people’s health. At the moment, all of us are both indirectly and directly paying for Medicare and private insurance, and we pay about 4X more than the average country because of inflated charges across the whole system. And as for the famed U.S. healthcare that some people brag about, it’s really just the top 20% of high-tech care that 80% of us will never have access to anyway.
As an example, my daughter needs a new tooth implant, she could fly here, get it done, fly back and save over 1K in the process.
| Location | Typical cost for a single tooth implant | Notes / range | Approx ratio (Poland vs U.S.) |
|---|---|---|---|
| U.S. | $3,000 to $5,800 (implant + abutment + crown) (AAID Implant) | More complex cases (bone grafting, sinus lift, specialty materials) can push costs higher (Dental Depot DFW) | — |
| Poland | ~ $1,000 to $1,300 for a typical implant + crown in many clinics (Bookimed) | Some Polish clinics list the screw (implant post) itself from ~ PLN 1,800 (≈ USD ~450) and total implant procedure including surgery/implant/crown ~ PLN 4,000+ (~USD 1,000+) (Warsaw Dental Center) Clinic “GoDenta” lists implant root & surgery 2,400–2,800 PLN (≈ USD 570–670) and full implant including surgery + technician 4,400–6,500 PLN (~USD 1,050–1,550) (godenta.eu) | Poland is often ~ 25–35 % of U.S. cost, i.e. ~ 65–75 % less expensive |
Boghie
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 305
My health insurance costs were declining till 2010 or so. Then, they started going up.
I do agree that our health insurance and medical system is abysmal. I was on a basketball tournament trip to Istanbul in 2004. I had to visit a doctor for Bronchitis. Obviously, I was not covered by a national system. Out of pocket was about $25 for the doctor visit with a very impressive doctor who seemed to have concerns about sliming me with anti-biotics. I would grab this chap as my doctor here in the states. He gave me a 'prescription' for an anti-biotic for an additional $5. I put prescription in air-quotes because it really was a recommendation - the anti-biotic in question (and, I think all of them) were over-the-counter. The anti-biotic cost something like $15. So, for general care almost anything is better than calling a doctors office for bronchitis, being told the next available appointment is in 2026, then being told to go to urgent care, and then having insurance pick it all up for a lot of money and not caring because I never really saw the bill and I don't care if my insurance over-pays. What a mess.
On the other side of the coin, lots of folks from Canada and Mexico cross the border for health care that is not routine. I know Mexicans and Mexican-Americans that play both sides.
I do agree that our health insurance and medical system is abysmal. I was on a basketball tournament trip to Istanbul in 2004. I had to visit a doctor for Bronchitis. Obviously, I was not covered by a national system. Out of pocket was about $25 for the doctor visit with a very impressive doctor who seemed to have concerns about sliming me with anti-biotics. I would grab this chap as my doctor here in the states. He gave me a 'prescription' for an anti-biotic for an additional $5. I put prescription in air-quotes because it really was a recommendation - the anti-biotic in question (and, I think all of them) were over-the-counter. The anti-biotic cost something like $15. So, for general care almost anything is better than calling a doctors office for bronchitis, being told the next available appointment is in 2026, then being told to go to urgent care, and then having insurance pick it all up for a lot of money and not caring because I never really saw the bill and I don't care if my insurance over-pays. What a mess.
On the other side of the coin, lots of folks from Canada and Mexico cross the border for health care that is not routine. I know Mexicans and Mexican-Americans that play both sides.
Viettim
New Contributor
- Reaction score
- 10
My single medical insurance has gone up $1800 a year after “Affordable Care Act” so someone not paying into it can get it for free.
JTH
TSP Legend
- Reaction score
- 1,035
While I still think the US Healthcare system needs a complete overhaul, it still won't address an underlying issue we have. So I'd like to counter my argument with a comparison, of Poland Vs. US in terms of Social Assistance
Comparing Social Assistance Burdens: U.S. vs. Poland
In Poland, 3.4 % of the population received social assistance in 2023, fuzzy math $62/year averaged across entire population
In the U.S., 20–30 % of people take part in major welfare programs, fuzzy math $2,597/year averaged across entire population
If we hit “critical mass” where a third of the population depends on assistance, we’ll be unable to reduce both the dependency rate or the costs. But, If the U.S. overhauled healthcare to match European systems, per-person costs could fall $500-$1,000 per person. Bear in mind, a big chunk of those welfare costs (about 60%) in the U.S. are driven by medical bills; fix health care, and you cut welfare spending too.
JTH
TSP Legend
- Reaction score
- 1,035
You're cheating, Polish women live longer, their men drink 37% more beer, and they had to deal with some “post-Wall” hangover from the commies. You can get that 3.5ths through lifestyle choices.
From the Worldometer list, about 21 countries rank above the U.S. and use systems similar to Poland’s social health insurance (SHI). They’re cheaper, cover more, and still allow private supplements, usually while paying less than in the U.S. Most importantly, kids are covered. If you can’t afford insurance, you delay having children, the very people who later fund the system. We need more births or more immigration. U.S. birth rates are below replacement, and fewer kids mean weaker future contributors eroding our purchasing power. It’s already happening.
Boghie
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 305
I kinda agree JTH. Our system sucks, but I don't know if a socialist system sucks less. I want the ability to change providers if I don't like my current provider. I, personally, think we should move to a more self-pay environment. I don't know how though. In the end, math will win. It always does.
Your choice of Poland is at least fair. They are spending money on things other than welfare and socialized medicine. They do have the bear looking over the border fence and they do fund a viable military - unlike the big Euros on the continent.
Your choice of Poland is at least fair. They are spending money on things other than welfare and socialized medicine. They do have the bear looking over the border fence and they do fund a viable military - unlike the big Euros on the continent.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 788
Shutdown update:
The Senate today voted For the NINTH TIME against cloture on the House budget bill. Same vote the last eight times. No movement on a budget bill.
Heard on the street- Some FAA Inspectors who had been laid off furlough for two weeks were called back Monday. Seems industry has to continue to move on, and needs FAA to function. Without it, of course.
There is some talk also of possibly moving the Defense Appropriations bill in regular order, as a way to at least get something moving. No idea yet what kind of package that might look like, but you can read more about it here:
www.yahoo.com
That may spur some discussion tomorrow about passing the defense bill. Maybe some kind of package deal can be made.
My best guess is at least two more weeks, and maybe much longer, as the stakes are high and the division on how to proceed isn’t settled.
More turbulence ahead.
The Senate today voted For the NINTH TIME against cloture on the House budget bill. Same vote the last eight times. No movement on a budget bill.
Heard on the street- Some FAA Inspectors who had been laid off furlough for two weeks were called back Monday. Seems industry has to continue to move on, and needs FAA to function. Without it, of course.
There is some talk also of possibly moving the Defense Appropriations bill in regular order, as a way to at least get something moving. No idea yet what kind of package that might look like, but you can read more about it here:
Senate GOP, Thune throw curveball into shutdown fight
Senate Majority Leader John Thune (R-S.D.) is throwing a curveball into the shutdown fight as he plans to bring a full-year spending bill for the Pentagon to the floor on Thursday, effectively daring Democrats to oppose it as part of their push to keep health care at the forefront of the...
My best guess is at least two more weeks, and maybe much longer, as the stakes are high and the division on how to proceed isn’t settled.
More turbulence ahead.
- Reaction score
- 743
Well until both sides can sit down and talk nothing will be resolved.Shutdown update:
The Senate today voted For the NINTH TIME against cloture on the House budget bill. Same vote the last eight times. No movement on a budget bill.
Heard on the street- Some FAA Inspectors who had been laid off furlough for two weeks were called back Monday. Seems industry has to continue to move on, and needs FAA to function. Without it, of course.
There is some talk also of possibly moving the Defense Appropriations bill in regular order, as a way to at least get something moving. No idea yet what kind of package that might look like, but you can read more about it here:
That may spur some discussion tomorrow about passing the defense bill. Maybe some kind of package deal can be made.Senate GOP, Thune throw curveball into shutdown fight
Senate Majority Leader John Thune (R-S.D.) is throwing a curveball into the shutdown fight as he plans to bring a full-year spending bill for the Pentagon to the floor on Thursday, effectively daring Democrats to oppose it as part of their push to keep health care at the forefront of the...
My best guess is at least two more weeks, and maybe much longer, as the stakes are high and the division on how to proceed isn’t settled.
More turbulence ahead.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 788
News Update- as of just after noon eastern time:
The U.S. Senate just took another vote on the cloture of the Republican House passed bill - in the Senate the motion was DEFEATED for the TENTH time, by the same vote- 51-47, with 60 votes needing to pass.
Then the Senate went to lunch.
More:
The shutdown is now the fourth longest in history, and will become third longest after tomorrow.
The U.S. Senate just took another vote on the cloture of the Republican House passed bill - in the Senate the motion was DEFEATED for the TENTH time, by the same vote- 51-47, with 60 votes needing to pass.
Then the Senate went to lunch.
More:
Loading…
finance.yahoo.com
The shutdown is now the fourth longest in history, and will become third longest after tomorrow.
Last edited:
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 788
Senate came back from lunch.
Then adjourned until
3:00 PM MONDAY- next week.
No further business, the Senate adjourned at 14:32 pm. No more votes until next week.
Then adjourned until
3:00 PM MONDAY- next week.
No further business, the Senate adjourned at 14:32 pm. No more votes until next week.
- Reaction score
- 743
Except for this current shutdown. I was affected by all the others. The scariest was 1979. I was married for only four months and not a lot of money in the saving account.
Boghie
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 305
Almost a $200 Billion surplus in September - before the buyout salaries ended and before the gubmint shutdown.
Annual deficit down from last year, revenue up, spending looks better. Given the DOGE work, structural spending should decrease about $30 Billion per month starting October. Next months report will tell. Anyway, here is a side-by-side look at revenue and spending:
Be wary at looking at the numbers by month. Some expenses may bleed into the next month or be paid in the preceding month. Also, this is real data, not budget or CBO forecast data.
What this means is that if this trend continues the Federal Gubmint won't put as much pressure on debt instruments. Thus, interest rates will go down. Things are looking up!!!
Enjoy!!!
Annual deficit down from last year, revenue up, spending looks better. Given the DOGE work, structural spending should decrease about $30 Billion per month starting October. Next months report will tell. Anyway, here is a side-by-side look at revenue and spending:
Be wary at looking at the numbers by month. Some expenses may bleed into the next month or be paid in the preceding month. Also, this is real data, not budget or CBO forecast data.
What this means is that if this trend continues the Federal Gubmint won't put as much pressure on debt instruments. Thus, interest rates will go down. Things are looking up!!!
Enjoy!!!
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 788
Not exactly-
As long as revenues are less than expenses, there is still an issue. And, at the moment, there are more expenses than revenues. Interest rates will continue to be pressured.
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 788
Oh, I almost forgot to mention-
Speaker of the House told everybody to stay away until next week now. The House doesn’t meet again until Tuesday afternoon at the earliest.
My guess is that on Monday he’ll probably stretch that out some more. They really don’t want to swear in that 218th signature for the Epstein files.
Speaker of the House told everybody to stay away until next week now. The House doesn’t meet again until Tuesday afternoon at the earliest.
My guess is that on Monday he’ll probably stretch that out some more. They really don’t want to swear in that 218th signature for the Epstein files.
Boghie
Market Veteran
- Reaction score
- 305
The House already passed the CR.
They really don't have to come back and 'do something' till the Senate passes something. If the something the Senate passes differs, then the House and Senate have to reconcile and both have to vote again.
If the Senate passes the House CR we are done.
They really don't have to come back and 'do something' till the Senate passes something. If the something the Senate passes differs, then the House and Senate have to reconcile and both have to vote again.
If the Senate passes the House CR we are done.
