SANTA SIGHTED

[nnuut]

Thank you for your concern but it's not warranted, I'm good where I am, just because I am, I think? I didn't mean flash a red light I'm satisfied with what I have.

 

[alevin]

We're good, nnuut, wasn't aiming at you anyway. was speaking in general terms about life and decisionmaking in general and how I experience it.

 

[Afishegg]

Alright, lets talk scripture. scriptural principles applicable to disagreements about what is acceptable religious practice for believers. Romans Chapter 14. advice for those still learning what's okay and what's not okay in the name of spiritual freedom.

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him....

"one man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind....You, why do you judge your brother? Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another"...and "whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God." ...

"If anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean. blessed is the man who does not condemn himself for what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he does what he does not approve, because his action is not from faith and everything that does not come from faith is sin."

To me that principle means if Fish thinks celebrating Christmas is wrong then for him its wrong and he shouldn't do it. Doesn't mean it's ok for him to try to make it everyone else's problem so long as they're not conflicted about the meaning of Christmas and Christmas symbols for themselves. That's straight from scripture too.

Yes ...BUT!:cheesy: From your application of this scripture, if I think "murder" is ok then it's ok, or if I think adultry is ok then it's ok. Seriously, aside from what Romans Chapter 14 talks about the bible CLEARLY teaches that there are some things that are just simply off limits DESPITE what you think or say. Mixing paganism with christianism is just one of those things that are "clearly" wrong..Right!? I mean if I read Romans chapter 14 and then reasoned "well, he shouldn't tell me that my fornicating or me murdering or me commiting adultry or me practising demonism is wrong because I'm ok with it" (despite the fact that these things are condemned in gods word) would it make it right? (I mean this all hinges on whether you consider yourself a "christian" of course)..the answer is NO! You have to take the entire bible into consideration not just some parts, and when the bible says that spiritism is wrong for example(such as astrology,or practising of dark magic or reading tarot cards ,conjuring the dead etc,etc,) or when it shows that worshippers of god have to worship in spirit and truth, or that they must stay spiritually clean (hence foregoing unclean spiritual practises, such as pagan customs and traditions) do you simply shrug these things off and say "well, I'm ok with it, BESIDES, Romans says if my conscious is clean then it's ok". I mean your whole argument is just that, that Romans chapter 14 is saying "Well, if your good with it, then it's ok!" Loose interpretation (real loose) Dontcha think, and obviously as shown, wrong.......next! :toung:

Alright I SAID I wasn't going to comment anymore on this subject, now stop ...enticing me! :laugh:

 

[burrocrat]

whooo, hooo. i just drove past the blm station yesterday and the dial said the danger was low, but looky what we got burnin here.

cool, i like my religion with a little fire in it.

fish, you ain't one of them ex-morons are you?

alevin, you ain't one of them ex-hippies are you?

 

[James48843]

Yes ...BUT!:cheesy: .......

I mean your whole argument is just that, that Romans chapter 14 is saying "Well, if your good with it, then it's ok!" Loose interpretation (real loose) Dontcha think, and obviously as shown, wrong.......next! :toung:

Ok Fish- I'll bite.

I agree there are right and wrong things in this world.

I'd also point out that how one interprets "the law" in the Bible can vary depending on who is talking in the Bible. Is it Jesus who is giving the word, or is it a book where Paul, or another is speaking. Jesus is very clear in his teachings- but there is a mixture of clarifications from others - different views from Paul, for example, with no substantiation from Jesus, within the various books we now call the Bible.

 

[Afishegg]

whooo, hooo. i just drove past the blm station yesterday and the dial said the danger was low, but looky what we got burnin here.

cool, i like my religion with a little fire in it.

fish, you ain't one of them ex-morons are you?

alevin, you ain't one of them ex-hippies are you?

I just like good conversation ever now and then....Just like the next guy....

 

[James48843]

I'll drop this little gem on you Fish-

Lots of good, thought provoking discussion about Romans Chapter 14, and what it really says.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/romans/romans14.htm

Food for thought.

Enjoy.

Good night.

 

[Afishegg]

Ok Fish- I'll bite.

I agree there are right and wrong things in this world.

I'd also point out that how one interprets "the law" in the Bible can vary depending on who is talking in the Bible. Is it Jesus who is giving the word, or is it a book where Paul, or another is speaking. Jesus is very clear in his teachings- but there is a mixture of clarifications from others - different views from Paul, for example, with no substantiation from Jesus, within the various books we now call the Bible.

Hmm....:suspicious: I see what your sayin. I do wanna say this. I hope noone gets offended here at whats being said. I DO understand that many folks take seriously the holidays and I don't like stompin' on peoples toes and all. I do like a good argument and I DO mean what I say/have said, I just don't wanna let it get outa control here. As far as burrocrats question, I do read and keep up with the watchtower.org I find that the explanations they give are deep, and come from only the bible, which is what I personally feel is the only source of info in which one should seek answers. I do also believe that just because their teachings have changed does not mean they lose all credibility as some suggest. Again, the bible shows that god does reveal his word to honest hearted ones progressivly. If doctors learn that a procedure they have been performing in the past on heart patients is not really effective and after much study find that in fact it could actually be detrimental to the patient, do they continue using that procedure or do they stop it. Likewise when a student of the bible finds that certain practises that they have held dear in the past are found to be wrong when held up to the light of the bible, do they keep practising them or do they stop? I have found that it is wise to reconsider ones old ways (an autoexam so to speak) every now and then and "test" whether or not we are all really living up to gods standards "in the faith" as the bible says. That is what the articles in the watchtower and awakes help one (me) do, move foreward and learn and think and reason and all that other deep stuff that meets my intellectual and spiritual needs. Again it's not my aim to offend at whats being said......NOW!....Hit me with your best shot.....:laugh::laugh:

Just wanted to add this link to often asked questions by interested people. Thanx James for your link as well.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/article_08.htm

 

[Buster]

One of the reasons man is at the top of the food chain, is because God almighty gave us the ability to think outside the box..I believe very much in God, his Son Jesus and the Holy spirit..I also believe that a lot of the Bible's teachings was/were just that..teachings based on parables, examples of for instances and truths..not necessarily real actual events such as Seven days for creation, ADAM and EVE, Noah and the great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah..etc all those things goes against science and nature..which of course God created in perfect order and gave man the ability to rationalize these things..But from those truths, one should see or learn in the understand the messages being exhibited were trying to convey, so that we can draw on this wisdom and live our lives accordingly.

I'm just saying I don't need to feel Jesus' wounds to know what his Crucifixion meant for us.

 

[James48843]

Hmm....I see what your sayin....... As far as burrocrats question, I do read and keep up with the watchtower.org I find that the explanations they give are deep, and come from only the bible, which is what I personally feel is the only source of info in which one should seek answers. ... I have found that it is wise to reconsider ones old ways (an autoexam so to speak) every now and then and "test" whether or not we are all really living up to gods standards "in the faith" as the bible says. That is what the articles in the watchtower and awakes help one (me) do, move foreward and learn and think and reason and all that other deep stuff that meets my intellectual and spiritual needs. Again it's not my aim to offend at whats being said......NOW!....Hit me with your best shot.....:laugh::laugh:
...

OK- I'll hit you with my best shot.

You said:

I do read and keep up with the watchtower.org I find that the explanations they give are deep, and come from only the bible, which is what I personally feel is the only source of info in which one should seek answers.

I'll grant you that JW do spend a lot of effort putting out the MEANING of various phrases and words in the Bible. Meaning as THEY have heard it, and interpreted it.

I found Watchtower and Jehova Witness to be very meaningful as I conducted MY journey towards learning about God.

What I found, however, is that once I began to read intently the Bible, meditate on it, think about the meaning of certain words, and then asked God himself for answers to my questions, HE gave me the answers in the word itself.

Not someone else's interpretation (Yes, I did attend some JW meetings at one time), but God gave me MY OWN, DIRECT ANSWERS in his word.

And then, when I went back and read exactly the same chapter and verse over again, I would sometimes get additional information directly from HIM that would add to what HE gave me before.

The book came ALIVE for me.


Now, I don't know how you explain that to someone who it never happened to before. I was 42 years old when it happened to me.

JW served God's purpose in my case, in getting me to begin reading and studying the Bible. Another church got me involved in actually opening myself up to listen to what God had to say. So I don't knock JW's at all. JW's served God's purpose in my case in getting me started studying the word. But I went further, and stopped asking Jehova Witness interpretation, and started asking God himself what he meant. That's when the real fun started.

I just know for myself now, that JW's are just another branch used by God to bring people closer to him. But it is up to each one of us, individually, to make the actual move and ask him to become a part of our lives.

Cause it you ask him, he will. :laugh: He'll knock down walls for you, if you just listen and obey. He'll create things you never thought possible, if you just listen and obey. Everything I have, everything I've done, is because He made it possible. And to him, nothing is im-possible.

Well, enough said.

Good night.

 

[alevin]

Well, I've never managed to learn how to multi-quote, even tho this is an occasion where I wish I could. but I'll leave it at this-when I brought forward the parts of Romans 14 that I did, I was taking the whole section-including the part I quoted about how

"Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another (because we are accountable to God first and foremost)"...which was my bottom line takeaway from that section and the point I was trying to bring forward.

James' link was masterful, and the content presented in-depth is the very same teaching and learning I've had, that I evidently failed to summarize clearly enough in my 2 summary sentences. I'm no hippie of the "If it feels good, just do it" generation, and I've had similar experience direct with scripture that he has had. My concience has to be consistent with my understanding of right and wrong as defined in scripture, which means murder would never be right for me-because I am accountable to God and what is clearly stated in his word, not just to my own mental gymnastics, as a friend once called them.

On the other hand to me a tree is just a tree, a beautiful and useful creation from the Creator-and one that at certain times of year can serve as a symbol of joy in my relationship with the Creator. Not a substitute, and not necessary, but a meaningful symbol. If that symbol carried multiple and conflicting meanings for me that weakend my relationship with god (which it doesn't-I'm aware of ancient customs and beliefs from other cultures, but they have no meaning or value to me), or its presence in my home created problems for people close to me, then I would reconsider keeping it as a tradition in my life.

And as FAB said, the angels and shepherds and magi set the example for us-the birth of that special individual is worth observing in special ways-for those who can do it by faith without doubts about it being right or wrong.

1 Corinthians 8 continues the theme begun in Romans 8. FYI

OK, I'm done now, goodnight all.

 

[burrocrat]

the explanations they give are deep, and come from only the bible, which is what I personally feel is the only source of info in which one should seek answers. I do also believe that just because their teachings have changed does not mean they lose all credibility as some suggest. Again, the bible shows that god does reveal his word to honest hearted ones progressivly.

well that was a testimony if i ever heard one, say it brother, feel it, amen.

as far as the romans and morons and hippies go... the pope says it's ok to use a condom if means not infecting your tricks to protect the ones you love; joe smith was right, then wrong, but will be right again, believe it; and even bob marley has been known to switch strains sometimes.

oh it takes a lot of faith for sure, but good works never hurt nothin neither.

that's how profits are made.