FAB1
Market Veteran
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Excellent point! I will be referencing that observation in future discussions!
And Im no Bible scholar, jest putting two and two together. :nuts:
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SANTA SIGHTED
- Thread starter James48843
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And Im no Bible scholar, jest putting two and two together. :nuts:
SkyPilot
TSP Pro
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Probably in your favor!
Afishegg
TSP Strategist
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Oh ok, so we should base our beliefs off of YOUR opinion? Well NOT me, I'll base my beliefs off of what the BIBLE teaches...Hey...LOOK! Looks like you have a follower already, congrats! :nuts:
Oh by the way if you 2 wanna know about the pagan holiday you just partook in, you can just look it up in any encyclopedia or even the catholic encyclopedia if you want to..ok? They'll explain to you why it is pagan and unchristian and HEY!, They even STILL continue to celebrate it, Knowing full well it is wrong, so that should help you guys to justify it and fell good about doing it.... even more....
No wonder the "bible" teaches, that "The road leading into destruction is broad and "cramped" because many are on it, but the road leading into life is narrow and spacious because FEW are the ones finding it" Matt 7:13,14. Yes most people on earth will die at armagheddon, because of their failing to abid by gods rules "John 17:3" (yet they abide by mans thats for sure. example: "CHRIST-MASS") It's just as Jesus himself told the sadducees and pharisees " Because of your "traditions" you have made the word of god Invalid" Mark 7:13. Any ways, I won't turn this financial forum into a religous debate so I'll digress, find your own answers, it aint that hard, just.... READ YOUR BIBLE DAILY!
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SkyPilot
TSP Pro
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Oh ok, so we should base our beliefs off of YOUR opinion? Well NOT me, I'll base my beliefs off of what the BIBLE teaches...Hey...LOOK! Looks like you have a follower already, congrats! :nuts:
Oh by the way if you 2 wanna know about the pagan holiday you just partook in, you can just look it up in any encyclopedia or even the catholic encyclopedia if you want to..ok? They'll explain to you why it is pagan and unchristian and HEY!, They even STILL continue to celebrate it, Knowing full well it is wrong, so that should help you guys to justify it and fell good about doing it.... even more....
No wonder the "bible" teaches, that "The road leading into destruction is broad and "cramped" because many are on it, but the road leading into life is narrow and spacious because FEW are the ones finding it" Matt 7:13,14. Yes most people on earth will die at armagheddon, because of their failing to abid by gods rules "John 17:3" (yet they abide by mans thats for sure. example: "CHRIST-MASS") It's just as Jesus himself told the sadducees and pharisees " Because of your "traditions" you have made the word of god Invalid" Mark 7:13. Any ways, I won't turn this financial forum into a religous debate so I'll digress, find your own answers, it aint that hard, just.... READ YOUR BIBLE DAILY!
Seems like you had every intention of turning this otherwise happy and amiable discussion into a religous debate. By reading your other posts, you seem like a nice enough fellow and above such nonsense. However, your intentions and justification seem obvious and apparent. And, don't assume when you purpose to critisice as you have done that such comments will go without answer.
Again, I only bring this up as you have referenced the Watchtower as your source of authority... Therefore, either you are in conflict with the organization, or the organization is in conflict with itself.
1904 "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date.We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day.""(Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1904, p364)
For further reading, you may wish to consult http://www.letusreason.org/jw10.htm
or maybe http://www.bible.ca/jw.htm
Otherwise, please keep your vitriol to yourself.
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Afishegg
TSP Strategist
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You mean "critisize" and "amicable"? And you're referencing a 1904 watchtower? You do know this is 2011 right? I do believe "they" (the organization) openly admit to celebrating christmas in the past, (as well as smoking,using the cross etc etc) heck they even show pics of the world headquarters decked out in christmas decorations in their "current" literature..... BIG DEAL, as I mentioned that was in the past (probably like 1904... around the time that watchtower you referenced was written)
So do you have anything else better to use for an argument? Any of their "up to date" literature to reference? NO? I figured as much. So Your argument is that back in 1904 (over 100 years ago) they celebrated christmas and so ..THERE! You sound like a 9 year old kid arguing with an adult. Actually you sound like someone who has had a falling out with the "organization" and was just WAITING for this moment. Maybe perhaps your even an apostate, yeah thats probably more like it. ok I'll leave you alone, go back to reading your 1904 articles while spewing your hate on a modern computer.
By the way! did you look up "christmas" in the catholic or americana ecyclopedia (or any other modern type of database)? Please reference THAT for me!
E.N.D . . . . . of. . . . . D.I.S.C.U.S.S.I.O.N. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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SkyPilot
TSP Pro
- Reaction score
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You seem to be angry and hurt. Participation in a forum such as this need not be so traumatic. However, if you posit such extreme positions, surely you must respect others right and obligation to rebut and refute. This is only reasonable.
Actually, the fact that the publication (Watchtower) promotes two different official positions is difficult, as their material as is viewed authoritative, in the same way that you have used it for a reference.
I have provided additional links for you to research this further if you are interesed.
Seems the "facts" and "interpretations" change over time... so, which position was wrong then or now? And what happens when another position is published in the future? Again, you have offered this publication as a reference and an authority.
Further, all the days in the year have multiple religious significance, so you would suggest that there should be no celebrations at all, of any kind? I guess this would also rule out anyone's birthday, wedding, Bar Mitzvah, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, etc... ?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/int_rel3.htm
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SkyPilot
TSP Pro
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Hilarious!
You know what they say, "Never talk about religion when you're drinking". Maybe you guys aren't drinking, but I am!!:laugh:
Please continue this is GREAT! View attachment 10367
HA!
The original text, derived from the Dies irae sequence, is as follows:
Pie Jesu Domine,
dona eis requiem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_Jesu
Or Monty Python and the Holy Grail
SkyPilot
TSP Pro
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I can't wait till the "Easter" discussion starts..talk about your pagan holiday:blink:
And here you go!
From Wikipedia:
The modern English term Easter developed from the Old English word Ēastre or Ēostre (IPA: [ˈæːɑstre, ˈeːostre]), which itself developed prior to 899. The name refers to Eostur-monath, a month of the Germanic calendar attested by Bede, who writes that the month is named after the goddess Ēostre of Anglo-Saxon paganism.[6] Bede notes that Ēostur-monath was the equivalent to the month of April, yet that feasts held in her honor during Ēostur-monath had died out by the time of his writing and had been replaced with the Christian custom of "Paschal season".
Using comparative linguistic evidence from continental Germanic sources, the 19th century scholar Jacob Grimm proposed the existence of a cognate form of Ēostre among the pre-Christian beliefs of the continental Germanic peoples, whose name he reconstructed as *Ostara.
Linguists have identified the goddess as a Germanic form of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European goddess of the dawn, *Hausos, some scholars have debated whether or not Eostra is an invention of Bede's, and theories connecting Ēostre with records of Germanic Easter customs (including hares and eggs) have been proposed.
Modern German features the cognate term Ostern, but otherwise, Germanic languages generally use the non-native term pascha for the event (see below).
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
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James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
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alevin
Market Veteran
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Alright, lets talk scripture. scriptural principles applicable to disagreements about what is acceptable religious practice for believers. Romans Chapter 14. advice for those still learning what's okay and what's not okay in the name of spiritual freedom.
"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him....
"one man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind....You, why do you judge your brother? Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another"...and "whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God." ...
"If anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean. blessed is the man who does not condemn himself for what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he does what he does not approve, because his action is not from faith and everything that does not come from faith is sin."
To me that principle means if Fish thinks celebrating Christmas is wrong then for him its wrong and he shouldn't do it. Doesn't mean it's ok for him to try to make it everyone else's problem so long as they're not conflicted about the meaning of Christmas and Christmas symbols for themselves. That's straight from scripture too.
"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him....
"one man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind....You, why do you judge your brother? Each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another"...and "whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God." ...
"If anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean. blessed is the man who does not condemn himself for what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he does what he does not approve, because his action is not from faith and everything that does not come from faith is sin."
To me that principle means if Fish thinks celebrating Christmas is wrong then for him its wrong and he shouldn't do it. Doesn't mean it's ok for him to try to make it everyone else's problem so long as they're not conflicted about the meaning of Christmas and Christmas symbols for themselves. That's straight from scripture too.
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Buster
TSP Talk Royalty
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nnuut
Moderator | TSP Talk Royalty
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Indecision is one of my strengths so I really don't know if I'm immune to the promised wrath of non belief and that is probably the truth, maybe.Hey nnuut, that is talking to people who already consider themselves accountable to God. If you don't, then hey no problem, right?
View attachment 10371
alevin
Market Veteran
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Oooh, dontcha just hate being stuck trying to make a decision when you can see the pros and cons either way? I do. Feels great to finally make a decision and go with it, even when you're not completely sure but still have to make a decision? that's called faith.
faith in the unseen, faith when you don't feel like you're in complete control of the outcome but however it turns out, you'll know you did your best with what you had to work with at the time. that's faith too. secondguessing yourself, that's lack of faith, it'll getcha even if God doesn't.
I hate when I secondguess myself. hate it hate it hate it. but I try not to impact other people with my indecisions. that's the point. tussle it out with ourselves and come to terms with our own indecisiveness and uncertainties.
faith in the unseen, faith when you don't feel like you're in complete control of the outcome but however it turns out, you'll know you did your best with what you had to work with at the time. that's faith too. secondguessing yourself, that's lack of faith, it'll getcha even if God doesn't.
I hate when I secondguess myself. hate it hate it hate it. but I try not to impact other people with my indecisions. that's the point. tussle it out with ourselves and come to terms with our own indecisiveness and uncertainties.
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