Paid Services or Free with help...

[tsptalk]

You're fired!

 

[buda]

$100 - $150 Prepaid for the etire year to include all services and also offer a monthly ala carte at a higher rate.

 

[Divot]

Just thought I'd add my two cents to this public discussion.

There are a lot of TSP "advisory" services out there, most of them charge a fee.

• Some just tell you what to do and when to do it.
• Some give you lots of food for thought, without clear direction.
• Some give you a menu of portfolios to chose from that will contradict each other.

None of them come close to the corporate knowledge and educational value of TSP Talk.

The real attraction to TSP Talk is the opportunity to learn from a variety of perspectives. I think Tom's vector of providing a TSP oriented "thestreet.com" is exactly what government employees really need. I've been visiting TSP Talk for years, and I know I've benefited from reading what others have to say. I think that there is a real demand for financial/investing literacy material - and TSP Talk is best poised to deliver that.

I definitely believe that there should be value (ie: $) associated with getting timely advice from a source that's proven to beat the market. When Ebb and Fred go to being subscription services, that's great and I know they will have many interested subscribers. I just know that when I stumble across a website for a paid TSP advisory service with nothing for me to read but a promise and subscription price - it doesn't grab my attention. I want to learn, not just pay someone else to tell me what to do. I hope that most of the content on TSP Talk remains free (ie: advertisement funded).

Bottom line: I like the current model for TSP Talk. Ebb and Fred are definitely worthy of going to a subscription format, but I think that their older content should be available for free (so people can see what they offer.) The same goes for RevShark - I used to read him before he went subscription, so I know his style and content - but folks just showing up today can only read his credentials and then make a decision whether to subscribe.

- Divot
Market Debrief

 

[BeaverState]

Seems to me you might want to get some legal advice on this idea of charging for financial adivce. I don't know, but you may need a license to do that. The laws may be different in different states. You might need good insurance for those naughty people who like to sue if your advice loses them money.

 

[budnipper1]

Seems to me you might want to get some legal advice on this idea of charging for financial adivce. I don't know, but you may need a license to do that. The laws may be different in different states. You might need good insurance for those naughty people who like to sue if your advice loses them money.

Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.
There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants. Granted, there is a lot of great information within these pages and much can be learned. What each individual decides to do with that info is exactly that: HIS PERSONAL DECISION. Charging for certain premium services are not new here. Some are already in place and have been for a while. I am currently a paying member and have access to a couple of features that non-subscribers do not. I also know that I can use that information when making my investment decisions, or not. Please continue to read the other posts in this forum and get the whole story.

(From TSP Talk home page
TSP Talk is in no way affiliated with the U.S. government, or military TSP Thrift Savings Plan, tsp.gov, or any other government agency.TSP Talk does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this report, nor does TSPtalk.com assume any liability for any loss that may result from reliance by any person upon any such information or opinions. Such information and opinions are subject to change without notice and are for general information only. The information contained in this report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written consent from TSPtalk.com.

Copyright © 2003 - 2007 TSP Talk, LLC
All Rights Reserved

 

[McDuck]

I think things when you start charging for a service. When information is free, you are expected to take for what you paid for it. I would be surprized if there weren't regulatory / legal obligations when you charge money for financial advice.

WHAT I THINK SHOULD BE TRYED FOR SEPTEMBER IS: EBB SETS UP A PAYPAL ACCOUNT WHERE EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO VOLUNTEERLY CONTRIBUTE $9.99 TO HIM FOR HIS SERVICE. After a month or two, have him determine if that's enough income for him. If not, then try something else.

Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.

There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants. Granted, there is a lot of great information within these pages and much can be learned. What each individual decides to do with that info is exactly that: HIS PERSONAL DECISION. Charging for certain premium services are not new here. Some are already in place and have been for a while. I am currently a paying member and have access to a couple of features that non-subscribers do not. I also know that I can use that information when making my investment decisions, or not. Please continue to read the other posts in this forum and get the whole story.

(From TSP Talk home page
TSP Talk is in no way affiliated with the U.S. government, or military TSP Thrift Savings Plan, tsp.gov, or any other government agency.TSP Talk does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of this report, nor does TSPtalk.com assume any liability for any loss that may result from reliance by any person upon any such information or opinions. Such information and opinions are subject to change without notice and are for general information only. The information contained in this report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written consent from TSPtalk.com.

Copyright © 2003 - 2007 TSP Talk, LLC
All Rights Reserved

 

[BeaverState]

Welcome BeaverState, to the forum.
There are numerous places within this site that state that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. All things stated here are only opinions of the numerous participants....

BeaverState replies...

Thank you for the welcome. What I was referring to was not tsptalk.com in general or the posts made on the site. I know that the posts and comments are only people's opinions. What I was saying is that you may need a license to charge people money for financial advice. I noticed the RevShark guy advertises he is a Registered Financial Advisor, or something similar to that, along with many other credentials. I would imagine he has some serious liability insurance.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of each newsletter would be enough. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Some husband and wife teams at my work claim to have close to a half million dollars in there TSP accounts. Pretty cool huh? This would be serious business advising them on which funds to invest in. Should their accounts go down 10 percent, they've lost $50,000. A serious chunk of change for a civil servant.

By the way, I have been following the ebbchart and would consider paying for the service. I think he would make a lot more money if he waits until he has a daily following of 10,000 or more people before he starts charging for the service. I would think once he starts charging it will be hard to attract newcomers.

 

[budnipper1]

BeaverState replies...

Thank you for the welcome. What I was referring to was not tsptalk.com in general or the posts made on the site. I know that the posts and comments are only people's opinions. What I was saying is that you may need a license to charge people money for financial advice. I noticed the RevShark guy advertises he is a Registered Financial Advisor, or something similar to that, along with many other credentials. I would imagine he has some serious liability insurance.

Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of each newsletter would be enough. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Some husband and wife teams at my work claim to have close to a half million dollars in there TSP accounts. Pretty cool huh? This would be serious business advising them on which funds to invest in. Should their accounts go down 10 percent, they've lost $50,000. A serious chunk of change for a civil servant.

By the way, I have been following the ebbchart and would consider paying for the service. I think he would make a lot more money if he waits until he has a daily following of 10,000 or more people before he starts charging for the service. I would think once he starts charging it will be hard to attract newcomers.

Based on what I've read, I believe that it's not so much the issue of Ebb expecting to get rich; but rather, that he deserves some compensation for all the time and work he's invested in developing his system.(which he has graciously shared it with us for nothing, so far)

Whatever the final outcome about fees charged for Ebb's chart or any of the other offerings on TSP Talk, I really don't see what all the hubbub is about. Any fees I've seen discussed would be chump-change compared to the fees Rev Shark receives from his official website subscribers.(approx. $5,000/year) And even at that price, he still has a disclaimer stating that all information provided is for educational purposes only and should never be construed as a recommendation to buy or sell. (http://www.sharkinvesting.com/services.aspx ) I find it hard to see how anybody could win a lawsuit based on the argument that "because he gave me his opinion on what the market might do tomorrow, I gambled that he would be right and lost money".

Basically, I just enjoy what TSPTalk is all about. The message board discussions and opinions on investing strategies, all the information that's brought in everyday from almost every financial website imaginable, as well as the Ebbchart and other "systems" which try to track the market trends. I'm getting very valuable information and being entertained at the same time. I won't mind paying a reasonable price for that.

(Not to worry, Tom...no charge for the commercial)

About James 'RevShark' De Porre
James "Rev Shark" De Porre is president of Shark Asset Management, a Registered Investment Advisory firm specializing in actively managed, separate accounts, located in Anna Maria, Florida. He is a member of the Michigan Bar Association and a former tax attorney and CPA. De Porre holds business and law degrees from the University of Michigan. He was formerly the host of America Online's The Shark Attack and presently operates Shark Investing.com. De Porre is also the author the Trading Diary of The Street.com’s Real Money. He is a pioneer in the online trading world and has been an active participant in chat rooms and message boards since their advent. You can contact him at RevShark@SharkInvesting.com
Nothing contained in this article should be interpreted as or deemed to be a recommendation to any investor or category of investors to purchase, sell or hold any security.
http://www.tsptalk.com/revshark_bio.html

 

[TRUEHONEST]

I have a suggestion.

Guarantee them that the service fee would not increase that much the next three years even when ebbchart still continues to gain Big Percentages. And those people who procrastinate subscribing will be charged 7x fold for not getting the package deal. Buy it while it is still hot. :suspicious:

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

I think the idea of voluntary paypal donations makes more sense. It would also simplify some of the legal concerns. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[tsptalk]

Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

 

[tsptalk]

I have a suggestion.

Guarantee them that the service fee would not increase that much the next three years even when ebbchart still continues to gain Big Percentages. And those people who procrastinate subscribing will be charged 7x fold for not getting the package deal. Buy it while it is still hot. :suspicious:

Not a bad idea. Thanks.

 

[BeaverState]

Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

I believe amazon.com has a program where you can add an icon to your webpage to collect donations. They do all the processing for you and send you a check. I don't know if it's a good or bad deal but you could read about it here http://zme.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/fx/home.html/058-3568697-9345220

 

[tsptalk]

Thanks. What I mean is, people don't donate. Very, very few anyway. We've done the PayPal donation thing. There's one on the tracker page right now, as well as on the TSPLookup page.

 

[jayhawker]

Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

Since you asked...

No, asking for donations doesn't pay the bills.

I put TSPLookup out in the marketplace for free so I'm not complaining. But I am disappointed in the amount of donations I've received. I know people are using it; it's handy and has some nice features for the user. I'm not saying it's a work of genius but I put my time and effort into it (still do), it serves a useful purpose and it should be worth the $10 bucks I'm asking for it in the form of a donation. It has been downloaded thousands(!) of times and I've received 13 donations. Is that a fair return? It may be so.

Users here have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars at risk in the market every day, but $10 or $25 or whatever once per month is a hardship(?) It may be so.

Ed.

 

[jkat1966]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

While everyone is in such a good mood because of the incredible success of the ebbchart system, let me lay this on you...

As I have mentioned in the past, there is a time that we will have to make changes to the way these services are delivered and accessed. We (ebb, trader fred, and myself) have always discussed a possible move in the Fall to make the services part of a fee based subscription. As with any payment service we realize many people won't participate once they have to pay, no matter how much or how little we charge. The bottom line is, these guys and myself, must be compensated for the time, effort, expertise, dedication, you name it, that goes into putting all of this together - but before you run off, hear me out.

There is a way around it. The only way to compensate these fine contributors and system creators is to either charge a fee or get advertisers to pay us. We have tried the latter and while we do make some money, I wouldn't say anyone will be quiting their day jobs anytime soon. I did the math and basically if TSP Talk's traffic can grow in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 times its current size, we may be able to keep things free and still compensate ebb and trader fred pretty well.

With millions and millions of government employees and military personnel out there, our traffic is just scratching the surface when it comes to traffic potential. I spend literally thousands each month in advertising TSP Talk putting virtually every dime I ever made back into the site one way or the other (advertising, email services, chart services, software, webhosting, servers, shirts, hats, mugs, etc.) to keep it growing, so I am stretched that way.

Here's where you come in...

If we could get everybody here (the regulars) to help spread the word, we may be able to accomplish the goal of getting 4 to 5 X traffic faster than we've grown to this point. If you tell your co-workers, forward your email alerts, tell people about the ebbchart, trader fred, the sentiment survey, the message board, mention it in meetings, retirement seminars, write to federal publications like Gov Exec, Causey, Stephen Barr, ask your agency put links on their websites to us, etc., etc., etc, it may only take a few months before we go from 10,000 visitors a day to 50,000 or more. And with those numbers the advertising revenue should kick up a notch where we could keep every free.

What do say? Any comments, feedback, suggestions, questions?

If there is a positive reception to this idea, I may write something similar to this in my commentary to get everyone on board. Otherwise, we will likely go to a subscription service some time this Fall.

Thanks!

How much have you discussed charging?

 

[ebbnflow]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

How much have you discussed charging?

We don't know yet for sure. Tom says maybe $15/month for a service or $25 for both systems (Trader Fred, EbbChart). Or if traffic picks up from 10,000 to 50,000 we coud remain a free site. Just throwing numbers around for now hoping for a feedback. Nothing is set in stone.

And thanks guys and gals for the kind words and show of support!

 

[Reactive1]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Oh man, I hate to hear that you plan to charge. I'm very new to this site but have been a part of similiar ones, and my initial reaction is that it wouldn't work to charge. I know I wouldn't pay. Of course I could be completely wrong, but the effect I see is that you would suddenly have half or less members actively involved and everyone else looking in from the outside...not a happy family. I would strongly endorse the second idea of avoiding this and getting co-workers involved in the website. People are just not inclined to pay for information over the internet.

 

[SkyPilot]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Oh man, I hate to hear that you plan to charge. I'm very new to this site but have been a part of similiar ones, and my initial reaction is that it wouldn't work to charge. I know I wouldn't pay. Of course I could be completely wrong, but the effect I see is that you would suddenly have half or less members actively involved and everyone else looking in from the outside...not a happy family. I would strongly endorse the second idea of avoiding this and getting co-workers involved in the website. People are just not inclined to pay for information over the internet.

I'm with you and would like to see this site continue as is. So, get the word out. I would guess about a third of my co-workers visit on a weekly if not daily basis now.

 

[Grizzly]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Ebb is up over 20% so far this year! I'm csrs so I don't have much in the thrift, 30,000 or so. Even at that I'd be up over 6,000 ytd. I'd gladly pay 15 a month. I'm also using the Ebb Chart with some etf's and doing well.
Another point to consider is if too many people are using market timing, the tsp may follow in the footsteps of most mutual funds and limit the frequency of moves or put in some other restrictions.
A few years back I was switching between international funds and money market. Eventually the fund companies tired of the market timers and now we have all these redemption fees and restrictions. Too many people using Ebb, and they will if it is free, may ruin it. 15 a month is fine by me.
Just my opinion.
Mike