Paid Services or Free with help...

[JTH]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Mr Ebbinflow


Despite what cheap-skates like me think, everyone deserves to make a profit from their work. I've noticed on another TSP Website, some folks were criticizing Tom and others for trying to charge a subscription fee. I agree with part of their argument when they say that your system doesn't have a long track record, but I disagree with the sentiment that making a profit is wrong.

I hustle and make a buck every chance I get with 2 part time businesses and a full time job. I'm looking out for number one and number one is my wife and kids.

Your system is unique and if I could figure out what the hell you are doing, then I'd already have a website up and running and I'd be making a killing off of clueless folks like me. Meanwhile I'll keep riding the gravy train and regardless of what you do, more power to ya.

 

[StarMan]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

I've been following the commentary on TSP Talk for some time now. Tom's analysis and the opinions of a few other members have always influenced my TSP trades to some degree. When I first came across ebbnflow's system, I didn't think much of it. Another timing system. As time passed, I just flatout couldn't ignore the growing percentage difference between the ebbtracker and the individual TSP Funds. I'm an oldtimer (35 years federal service) and have been in TSP since its inception. I'll use any edge I can find, and for quite a while now its been the ebbtracker. It has made me far more this year than I feel I could have done on my own. The posted weekly results speak for themselves. Call it a hot streak - whatever. I have to give the man his due. Until I see continual bad calls or negative percentages, I'm with it. We shall see. I would GLADLY pay a few bucks a month for continued access. Keep it flowing, ebbnflow. I'll be standing in line to subscribe.

 

[ebbnflow]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Dang, if we go the subscription route, these posts are going to serve as fine testimonials! Thanks for the great feedback.

 

[JTH]

Mr Tom & others


Please humor me with my hypothetical thought here...

If you drastically increased your membership, and the vast majority of your members followed the various trading systems...

Could it be that TSPTalk could move the market and in effect negate the true effectiveness of the trading systems?

 

[RPM]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Dang, if we go the subscription route, these posts are going to serve as fine testimonials! Thanks for the great feedback.

Ebb:

Did you check with Jayhawker how he made out with donations for TSPLookup? Maybe going that way might work for awhile? Not that I think you don't deserve regular income for all your selfless sharing of your system, but with so many happy people making money using your system, they probably would be happy to share some of their gains, and yet, if/when the system is out of sync, then you'd still be able to keep the good will of the board members. Just have a banner on your web page to remind people to give each day you hit a 1% return day!!!

 

[Remo]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

What do say? Any comments, feedback, suggestions, questions?

If there is a positive reception to this idea, I may write something similar to this in my commentary to get everyone on board. Otherwise, we will likely go to a subscription service some time this Fall.

Thanks!

This may have been covered already, but have you considered putting up a PayPal icon and asking for donations? Maybe donations can satisfy your financial needs for TSPTalk.com until traffic growth increases to the point where the site ignites with the heat of a newborn star...
At that point you might need more server space and hence...more money, hmmmmm it seems like a vicious cycle. I think it's worth looking into.

I love this site because it is FREE and it has a "family" feel to it. If you make the site fee-based, I'll have to respectfully decline and go my own way. I already have an Edward Jones account with an excellent financial adviser. TSPTalk.com is an awesome website that offers more than TSP advise...it offers comraderie and friendship...you can't buy that and you shouldn't try to charge for it. There has to be a solution that fits your monetary need and keeps the site and it's denizens together....for free.
Respectfully,
Remo

 

[Show-me]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

You guy need to think about it. Ebb is up around 20% this year. What is the buy and hold return for the year? What is 20% of $10,000? I'll pay $15/month to make $2,000/month.

To me it IS a no brainier!

 

[Vintage Money]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

In my first posting I mentioned I was new and just getting started. Ebbnflow's system is fantastic and I am a believer. The idea that he shares this information with others is greatly apprecitaed by me. If, or when, the day comes that a fee must be provided in order to recieve the information - although I would prefer to keep what I have, I will glady share in the associated costs.

 

[tsptalk]

If you drastically increased your membership, and the vast majority of your members followed the various trading systems...

Could it be that TSPTalk could move the market and in effect negate the true effectiveness of the trading systems?

I guess it's possible. I continue to worry that with all the buy and sell orders input by noon ET, and us not getting a price until the close, the market will move against us between noon and the close, whether it's because TSP needs to start to buy and sell during the day to get the transactions processed, or because someone in the know is using the information to jump in front of us. Does that make sense?

One thing that has not been discussed and is such a No-Brainer! is that you can use the Ebbchart outside of TSP. Think how much pocket money you can make with your Scottrade account trading the SPY or QQQQ or EFA, AGG, etc. No delays and fair value either. Is that worth $15 a month? The $100 and $150 an hour financial planners, and brokers will be signing up I'm sure.

Again, I would prefer to keep it free. It will be a lot less work for me (managing subscriptions will have to be programmed in and managed). But we need traffic. I had seen a slight increase in August, and it was a little more than typical growth we've experience over the last 3+ years - which is great. But we need an explosion. We had close to 11K visitors yesterday. We're looking for 40K to 50K. Spread the word!

Or, there is something to be said about keeping our group small (and paying the fee). For the reason JTH mentioned but also things like, how will TSP react to 4 or 5 tims the tranasactions? What if they make changes? Right now we are impacting things. Can you image what happens if we quadruple in size?

 

[fedgolfer]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

I like Ebb a lot... although I think mandatory fee for service isn't the best route. There are other sites that do that and also don't tell you thier formulas for making IFTs. I respect Ebb's success, but its still a relatively short track record. Hypothetically, if I follow Ebb for a year and make 20% or more, I'll throw him a nice chunk end-of-year as a voluntary donation... probably significantly more than what would add up to a yearly subscription fee -- which I would not join, unless I could get more data/insight on how he arrives at what makes things go from red light to green light.

 

[Birchtree]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

I've been making my own decisions for too long to change now - sorry. When I give some back I don't blame anyone and in the same vein, when I pull down the gains I don't share the accolades. I'm a happy camper cutting my own trail. And I've done it the hard way over the years and believe me there is no easy way. And for the new folks on the team I'll repeat my investing philosophy: What's easy to do is almost always the wrong thing to do. And what's hard to do is almost always what makes you money. The choice and ultimate sacrifice is yours to make. My $0.02.

 

[tsptalk]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Originally Posted by Remo
This may have been covered already, but have you considered putting up a PayPal icon and asking for donations? Maybe donations can satisfy your financial needs for TSPTalk.com until traffic growth increases to the point where the site ignites with the heat of a newborn star...
At that point you might need more server space and hence...more money, hmmmmm it seems like a vicious cycle. I think it's worth looking into.

I love this site because it is FREE and it has a "family" feel to it. If you make the site fee-based, I'll have to respectfully decline and go my own way.

Thanks for the feedback. The site will remain free but there may be services that move into premium services, like RevShark newsletter. We went through this back then too.

Yes, increasing traffic means more equipment. You think $15 is a lot? I pay over $160 a month for the server we are using right now. That will likely double or triple if we do have a 5 fold increase in traffic. The email alerts cost me another $150 a month and will go to $250 when we hit 25K members. The stupid polls on the home page cost me $20 a month. I could go on. Somethimes you just have to pay for services. Think about what you would be getting for that $15. If someone chooses not to pay $15 for this incredible tool, that's fine. The rest of the site will still be here for you too.

I forgot to mention, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying while I make my point, since EWGuy (EW_ret) wasn't getting any donations (donations don't work) I have been giving him $200 a month to do the tracker. People get tired of giving without getting back. He didn't want to do it anymore. If Ebb doesn't get compensated he may give up one day too.

 

[oreo]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Tom -

Have you ever considered setting up a centralized site for donations. I gave to Jayhawker for the TSP Lookup. It was the best money I have ever spent. If he needed more, I would gladly give him an additional donation. I would also love to give a donation to Ebb because I follow his system but I don't know how to do that. I would also give a donation to you to offset the costs of running the board if I knew how to. I'm a big believer that those fortunate enough to receive something of value should give back something for those blessings. I think the benefits I have gotten from this board are more than worthy of my donations. The guidance I have received from this board have helped me signifcantly increase my account and I believe those that those who helped me attain that benefit should be rewarded

The point I am making is that people wishing to give donations don't have a centralized place to find out who to give donations to. Unless they use the service, I think a lot of people are unaware of whether that takes donations or not. I think a centralized donation site with instructions would help.

Also, I'm not an expert, but has anyone investigated whether a donation can be tax deductible like the combined federal campaign. I'm sure its probably been discusssed before but I don't recall seeing it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[EW_ret]

I agree that the donation route does not work for paying the bills. I received only two donations from the Tracker page, and that was from the first two weeks in June when the donation button was added to the Tracker page. Thank you to those who donated.

My opinion here is just how I see it. Going to a paid service for the EbbTracker and Trader Fred will likely occur because at best I only see a doubling in traffic at TSTalk.com over the next four months. The summer months are slow all over the internet and the markets. Starting in September and October the traffic will pick up. I see TSP.gov implementing new trading rules next years that will limit daily/weekly trading. The bottom line is it will cost you to trade frequently. I say we will have to transition to the paid services. For each service, start at $120 for a year, $36 for 3 months, and $15 a month for a monthly commitment. A fee exceeding $15 a month would drastically reduce subscriptions.

Unfortunately, PayPal donations don't work. Just ask EW_ret and Jayhawker.

 

[vic]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

It's the American way. I can understand wanting to gain from your knowledge and hard work. Although it does not have a long track recored, or does it? Maybe you have been using it for a long time. This site has grown over the years because for the most part it had a very friendly atmosphere. I understandwanting to take advantage of what appears to be a "no brainer", but just proceed cautiously so as to not loose the majority of your subcribers.If it is kept reasonable I would probably join, and I"m not a fan of joining clubs, do not belong to any. I do my own research and investing. You do have expensess and a small fee with all of the members you now have and are picking up daily, don't get greedy! I enjoy this site although I do not contribute very much, but do read it daily. Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money. Good luck

 

[mamikin]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

I don't post here daily, but I'm hear reading what everyone has to say daily. I find this site very valuable and I would be willing to pay a minor fee in order to access what Trader Fred and Ebb have to say about the market. I don't think that the $15 or $25 proposed fee is too much. Ebb and Trader Fred should be compensated for their efforts, as should Tom. And remember, access to the general site will still be free.

 

[tsptalk]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money.

I guess you don't follow the sentiment survey system, which is up 15.7%.

 

[ATCJeff]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Thanks for the feedback. The site will remain free but there may be services that move into premium services, like RevShark newsletter. We went through this back then too.

Yes, increasing traffic means more equipment. You think $15 is a lot? I pay over $160 a month for the server we are using right now. That will likely double or triple if we do have a 5 fold increase in traffic. The email alerts cost me another $150 a month and will go to $250 when we hit 25K members. The stupid polls on the home page cost me $20 a month. I could go on. Somethimes you just have to pay for services. Think about what you would be getting for that $15. If someone chooses not to pay $15 for this incredible tool, that's fine. The rest of the site will still be here for you too.

I forgot to mention, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying while I make my point, since EWGuy (EW_ret) wasn't getting any donations (donations don't work) I have been giving him $200 a month to do the tracker. People get tired of giving without getting back. He didn't want to do it anymore. If Ebb doesn't get compensated he may give up one day too.

It's the American way. I can understand wanting to gain from your knowledge and hard work. Although it does not have a long track recored, or does it? Maybe you have been using it for a long time. This site has grown over the years because for the most part it had a very friendly atmosphere. I understandwanting to take advantage of what appears to be a "no brainer", but just proceed cautiously so as to not loose the majority of your subcribers.If it is kept reasonable I would probably join, and I"m not a fan of joining clubs, do not belong to any. I do my own research and investing. You do have expensess and a small fee with all of the members you now have and are picking up daily, don't get greedy! I enjoy this site although I do not contribute very much, but do read it daily. Those stupid polls are not worth $20 a month. Save yourselve some money. Good luck

Please remember Tom use the word "stupid" first.

 

[tsptalk]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

Please remember Tom use the word "stupid" first.

I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but my point is not that the polls are stupid (OK, not the sentiment survey ones anyway, ), but that a service so minor costs more than what we're looking to charge for the ebbchart system, yet I pay it to keep the sentiment survey going.

 

[nsurf9]

Re: ebbnflow's Account Talk

It seems like there used to be A donation button on the TSP home page. But, I couldn't find it today. I suggest that a donation button/radio be prominently placed on the TSPTalk home page - or perhaps on every page.

Payment by donors must be made easy - e.g. with Paypal; or/and address to mail a check. Keeping it voluntary allows new users to fully get to know the site and profiting users to be "gently" reminded that they can donate as much and/or as often - especially when they profit, to make a donation. Perhaps, even give donate buttons Ebb and Fred pages, specifically, so as to permit users to, in turn, reward the success of that system.

As a note, I seldom look to the "Sentiment" survey, but will from now on considering its good return.

Also, would you consider a current fair-value for the Ebb page. And, lastly, clarify Ebb page as to when when the interfund transfer needs to be made.

NSURF9