Middle Class Bubble

[Mapper]

It's true. nearly all middle class wealth is based on credit and debt. Can you imagine an average middle class family purchasing a home with cash! Yeah, right! Paying cash for the average car is hard enough, although there are many models we could actually afford. Our perspectives are certainly warped

This is an interesting article I read recently in Fortune. It's a reprint from 1955 about top executive lifestyles. I'm not sure it completely relates but think it is an excellent read none-the-less. It puts a lot of perspective on many things.

How top executives live (Fortune, 1955) - Fortune Features

excerpt:
"

The executive's home today is likely to be unpretentious and relatively small--perhaps seven rooms and two and a half baths. (Servants are hard to come by and many a vice president's wife gets along with part-time help. So many have done so for so long, in fact, that they no longer complain much about it.) The executive who feels, as apparently Robert R. Young does, that to be completely happy he needs a forty-room "cottage" in Newport and a thirty-one-room oceanside villa in Palm Beach is a rare bird these days. The fact that Young paid only $38,000 for his Newport place, Fairholme, which cost Philadelphia banker John R. Drexel nearly a quarter of a million dollars to build in 1905, demonstrates the decline in the market for such outsize mansions."

I wasn't alive in 1955 but there are a lot of folks (in the masses) longing for the relative prosperity of that era. Therefore I found this very interesting. ​

 

[Birchtree]

I went grocery shopping yesterday, while in the store checkout line there was a middle age black guy in front of me. The only thing he bought was a sinle banana that he paid for with food stamps. What is interesting is that he collected cash back. What do you think he will buy with that cash - buy crank or Mogen David. Unfortunately there appears to be around 47 million people on food stamps that will never aspire to the upper classes. Who's fault is that?

 

[Birchtree]

"Barack Obama is explicitly seeking a mandate to make the public economy pre-eminent. That is the unmistakable meaning of "You didn't build that". His opponent so far is talking about, but not seeking a mandate for, the other economy. One expects that in time Mitt Romney will seek a mandate equal to Mr. Obama's" Not everyone appreciates the virtues of affirmative action in any form to succeed. If you work hard in the private economy you will have the opportunity to achieve your potential.

 

[Mapper]

I went grocery shopping yesterday, while in the store checkout line there was a middle age black guy in front of me. The only thing he bought was a sinle banana that he paid for with food stamps. What is interesting is that he collected cash back. What do you think he will buy with that cash - buy crank or Mogen David. Unfortunately there appears to be around 47 million people on food stamps that will never aspire to the upper classes. Who's fault is that?

First off, I'm going to call B.S. How did you know he used food stamps? Second, If that's what you saw then you should report the store for unauthorized use because it means, first and foremost, that store is illegally pocketing money. AND you should work through your state, who administers each program and make sure they have the procedures in place to limit such fraud.

Then I say...What? You want the gov't to micromanage every aspect of his life. You willing to pay for that bureaucracy. Cause Mitt sure aint gonna pay for it with all his tax shelters. Then I'll ask, which character is fleecing the gov't for more money Mr. offshore tax haven or Mr. ficticious MAYBEgetting change from food stamps. Finally, until you know the money is used for something other than food, the only clear case of fraud exists on behalf of the store. You should probably change stores if you dislike fraud so much.

 

[Mapper]

"Barack Obama is explicitly seeking a mandate to make the public economy pre-eminent. That is the unmistakable meaning of "You didn't build that". His opponent so far is talking about, but not seeking a mandate for, the other economy. One expects that in time Mitt Romney will seek a mandate equal to Mr. Obama's" Not everyone appreciates the virtues of affirmative action in any form to succeed. If you work hard in the private economy you will have the opportunity to achieve your potential.

Quit using public infrastructure then.

And who are you quoting? Without proper citation YOU are STEALING from whomever you quoted.

 

[nnuut]

Just a note, just who paid for public infrastructure, we and our parents and grandparents paid for it, not the government so what's the point? When needed I will gladly pay for more, but not for Bullet Trains and bridges to nowhere for political reasons.

 

[Mapper]

Just a note, just who paid for public infrastructure, we and our parents and grandparents paid for it, not the government so what's the point? When needed I will gladly pay for more, but not for Bullet Trains and bridges to nowhere for political reasons.

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.

 

[Mapper]

I went grocery shopping yesterday, while in the store checkout line there was a middle age black guy in front of me. The only thing he bought was a sinle banana that he paid for with food stamps. What is interesting is that he collected cash back. What do you think he will buy with that cash - buy crank or Mogen David. Unfortunately there appears to be around 47 million people on food stamps that will never aspire to the upper classes. Who's fault is that?

One more thing. In this little anecdote, why would you assume this man used the cash back for drugs or booze. Couldn't he just as easily be saving the money for next month. Maybe he's a stellar planner and stayed under budget for the month and found a way to set a little aside for a better future. After all, he bought a banana, quite the responsible food item, as opposed to the Mt. dew or twinkie or some other crap you might expect from a junkie, regardless of color. It's entirely possible he did the same things you do with the leftover money you have, save for the future. The point is, unless you are completely omniscient, which we know you aren't, you don't know what that man did.

 

[Aitrus]

Just a note, just who paid for public infrastruture...

I agree with this post, but...

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.

I also agree with what you're saying. Yes, UPS didn't build the roads they drive on, so they should pay for the privelege of using them. But that's why they get taxed at the pump just like everybody else. It's not their fault if those taxes don't go toward maintenance of those roads and paying back road building loans like they should. That's the fault of Congresses at both the State and Federal levels.

In the end, we're being taxed enough, both individuals and businesses. We could eat the rich for 100% of everything they earned for the last year and we wouldn't pay for this year's budget, not to mention paying back on debt. Look here: EAT THE RICH! - YouTube We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Well, that and omibus bills that are filled with things that have nothing to do with the title of the bill itself.

 

[ILoveTDs]

Mapper, your letting Birch get to you.

Birch story is completly false, anyone who knows anything about food stamps knows you don't have a paper food stamp anymore. Food stamps are "loaded" on a plastic card, and their will be NO CHANGE.

 

[Buffalo_Nickle]

i love these type discussions..., reminds me back in the day when Wimpy and Birch touched' at whits end and nobody ever got offended, oh well the good discussions are gone here now, some young GS 13 in California feels hurt and whomever is outlawed and ostracized. Sadly enough is our society, because everyone is scared to express truthful opinions on how it really is or should be!

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.

UPS paid it's share of taxes. You may not like that UPS was able to reduce it's tax burden through the use of legal tax avoiding procedures, but they did pay their share of taxes. Those taxes also paid for the roads.

 

[Birchtree]

Some are raised in radical egalitarianism - they are just wired differently. There're are going to be many municipalities going bankrupt in California because of liberal policies.

 

[burrocrat]

Whoa, y'alls worrying too much about the why and forgetting the what.

you don't know what that man did.

I know what that man did.

He bought food. With food stamps. Oh snap. Either he couldn't or wouldn't work for food. So we bought him lunch. Simple as that.

How many reading this are on food stamps? If not why not? It's free you know. Well, not really, it's on account.

On account of folks who contribute. Get with the program.

 

[clester]

Whoa, y'alls worrying too much about the why and forgetting the what.



I know what that man did.

He bought food. With food stamps. Oh snap. Either he couldn't or wouldn't work for food. So we bought him lunch. Simple as that.

How many reading this are on food stamps? If not why not? It's free you know. Well, not really, it's on account.

On account of folks who contribute. Get with the program.

Unbelievable. Since when did it become fashionable to bash poor folk? I worry about you guys.

 

[clester]

Unbelievable. Since when did it become fashionable to bash poor folk? I worry about you guys.

Btw, where does you paycheck come from?

 

[burrocrat]

Bashing? Huh?

I stated the facts. 1) he bought food with public benefits. 2) people who work paid for it.

I did not begrudge the man a meal. I did recognize where the meal came from.

Perhaps it's all a matter of perspective. We see what we want to see i guess.

 

[burrocrat]

Btw, where does you paycheck come from?

Unfortunately, i'm not sure where my paycheck comes from. I serve at the pleasure of the taxpayer, so i'd like to think it comes from revenue. But since we as a nation spend about 1.5 times what we earn, there's about a 1/3 chance it comes out of the free money pool. Which would suck because i give honest effort and don't want to be rewarded with the funny money.

Maybe we could prorate it so that 2/3 is actual earned money and 1/3 is conjured out of the full faith and credit thin air. Which is probably what really happens since they take about 1/3 of my gross before i ever see it like it never existed anyway.

That's a pretty cool perpetual financial motion machine we managed to build for ourselves, make it - give it - take it, all in the blink of a digital eye. I'm glad it seems like it's pretty content to feed on itself, cause if the monster ever gets hungry look out.

 

[burrocrat]

Well now i'm confused. That's some pretty slick talkin the way you turned that around there. I was going to say either i'm a poor communicator or you suck at understanding but that wouldn't be nice.

So let me think out loud on that one for a bit. Let's see, i trade my skill and labor, which takes time, for cash. And then i trade that cash for food. Seems pretty obvious, nothing sinister there, that's how i was taught as a kid to not go hungry. But maybe i'm just close minded and following the old ways by rote because they work (key word there, work) and there could be a different but equally viable way to achieve sustenance.

Alternatively, i could for whatever reason not work. Maybe i'm down on my luck, or my boss is a jerk and it stresses me out because he wants me to work too hard all the time, or my mom was mean, or i'm infirm, or just plain incapable. But i still get hungry just the same as everyone else. So how do i eat? Fortunately, other folks without all those real or imagined impediments to success have managed their affairs such that they have extra. Well, maybe not extra but at least enough to share, and share they do by virtue of the tax code. So i get this cash and trade it for food.

Eureka! I get it now! Either way cash gets traded for food and i'm no longer hungry because it's not fair that not everybody gets a warm fuzzy everytime. You're right, it's the same trade at the counter, cash for food. Let's not quibble about where it comes from because it all comes from the same printing press anyway. Man this pee wee tee ball game is fun because everybody gets to hit a home run. Screw you darwin!

You can try to turn me around anytime friend. But please quit turning me over, i'm a little sore.

 

[burrocrat]

All of your food money, and mine, come from the same source

Sorry, i got a little carried away there. What i meant to say was...

You're right fire, i agree, same source.

Can you agree that there's an important difference in how folks access that source?

And would you mind turning over?