Middle Class Bubble

[Frixxxx]

 

[Warrenlm]

He's being misunderstood. He's being picked on unfairly. It's Bush's fault.

 

[Birchtree]

"You didn't build that" is swelling to such heights that it has the president somewhere unprecedented: on defense. In addition to "you didn't build that," the president also put down those who think they are "smarter" or "work harder" than others. Witness the first president to demean the bedrock American beliefs in industriousness and exceptionalism. The presient's disparaging attack on business has also made voters more open to a defense of it. I'm glad he has finally shown us who he really is.

 

[Warrenlm]

Unfortunately, i'm not sure where my paycheck comes from. I serve at the pleasure of the taxpayer, so i'd like to think it comes from revenue. But since we as a nation spend about 1.5 times what we earn, there's about a 1/3 chance it comes out of the free money pool....

Another way to look at it is that you're one third funded by creditors of the Nation, so you could ask yourself daily, "What have I done for (China, Japan, banks, pension funds...) lately?"

 

[Warrenlm]

Ignore that young misguided teenagerFireWeatherTwit

Warrenlm mentioned M2 first out of fairness. On the M2 remark, it's a key measurement of part of the money supply:
M2: Represents money and "close substitutes" for money.[SUP][13][/SUP] M2 is a broader classification of money than M1. Economists use M2 when looking to quantify the amount of money in circulation and trying to explain different economic monetary conditions. M2 is a key economic indicator used to forecast inflation. Laura writes check number 7774 for $1000 and brings it to the bank to start a Money Market account (these do not have a credit-creating charter), M1 goes down by $1000, but M2 stays the same. This is because M2 includes the Money Market account in addition to all money counted in M1. (wikipedia).
I always assumed the Asst Secys in briefings were using their handheld devices to access their acronym list when they were looking down at their hands, so you're in good company.

I have seen it before on this very message board Ignore him. He will grow up.

I am a blue collar worker. Be very VERY thankful. You have an advantage in the coming society.

I am looking forward to hearing about all the resignations of those (who) feel their federal paycheck is an assistance payment! Lost on the young guy.

 

[PessOptimist]

Well great, a discussion.

My comments on posts in chronological order, picking on no one.

Alevin - I'm not going to quote you, just make a statement and ask some questions.

Elitism takes many forms. I run in to it often at work in the form a person giving a briefing (usually mandatory attendance) who throws acronyms around freely and takes offense that everyone doesn't have a clue what they mean. I suppose it does provide the briefer an opportunity to later tell peers how stupid the prols are. I feel it is elitist in that not everyone thinks your job/project is the most important thing in the world, though you do.

With that in mind, what is PTB and what is M2 wealth. Warrenlm mentioned M2 first out of fairness. Should the rest of us just tune out at this point because we are stupid?

We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Well, that and omibus bills that are filled with things that have nothing to do with the title of the bill itself.

I snipped this one quite a bit. Not that I disagree with the rest of it but I love the bottom line.

About Birchtree's story.. he said yesterday. Was it really yesterday? Entitlements were not always on a credit type card. I have observed much the same thing, much more openly. Put the authorized item on the counter, put the beer on the counter, submit the paper voucher, get change, pay for the beer. Mostly in small towns and a lot of nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Birch is not saying all people receiving funds from some level of government are misusing them, he is just stating he has seen it happen. Many of us have also seen it. With the cash cards now it is just a different way of doing it. Yes, I do see it occasionally. Travel in to areas outside your own ivory tower, open your eyes and you will see it too. Most of my state's cash assistance cards will allow withdrawals of cash from ATMs. At the register, all the store employee has to do is ring it up as something besides beer.

Whoa, y'alls worrying too much about the why and forgetting the what.

I know what that man did.

He bought food. With food stamps. Oh snap. Either he couldn't or wouldn't work for food. So we bought him lunch. Simple as that.

How many reading this are on food stamps? If not why not? It's free you know. Well, not really, it's on account.

On account of folks who contribute. Get with the program.

Unbelievable. Since when did it become fashionable to bash poor folk? I worry about you guys.

Including the donkey's post for context. clester, I worry about you based on the next post.

Btw, where does you paycheck come from?

I love this statement. I have seen it before on this very message board. If you feel that your federal pay check is in the same category as assistance, aka welfare; perhaps you need to examine your worth to the US government and if you actually do anything that is in the job description for your series. If not, you should immediately resign (not retire if eligible) and perhaps turn yourself in to LE for defrauding the US government.

I am a blue collar worker. Myself and most of my fellow craftsmen have jobs assigned and someone following up to see if that task was completed. We do not feel that our pay checks are or should be classified the same as public assistance. We work hard for our money. Under our WB system we lag behind our private entity counterparts by many percentage points. Some employees leave, some stay. None beleive we are bellied up to the trough for free bubble up and rainbow stew.

After you examine your statement and veiled accusation that the burro's paycheck is equivalent to public assistance, examine you own worth based on what you feel your own pay is based on; I am looking forward to the news you have resigned and are now receiving public assistance. We all must do what we can to reduce the deficit and ensure those unable/unwilling to work can have more.

In the mean time, those of us actually working to keep infrastructure operating will continue to do so without raises. Yes, we can always leave and try to find that equivalent public sector job. Strangely, some of us actually believe in what we do. We certainly do not equate our pay with public assistance.

Once again, any of you who believe your pay check is the same as a public assistance payment, please resign. I bet you agency won't even notice you are gone.

Very cool, while I was writing this FireWeatherMet posted. He suggests the money the homeless get is the same as burro's or my paycheck.

Burro my friend,
Just like the homeless
Who get food assistance from the taxpayer,
So you too get the similar assistance from the same taxpayer,
All of your food money, and mine, come from the same source,
From taxpayers, who probably have less health and retirement benefits than you or I,
Yet they still pay for your food, and mine. And your generous benefits, and mine,
Something for all of us to ponder this election year,
Just Remember...YES WE CAN!

p.s.
Hell, If I can have BirchTree be my vocal supporter for his bullish US economic stance,
Then maybe I can turn you around too?
​

I do not understand how any sane person can call a pay check for services rendered under a contract with the US government the same as assistance for a non worker. Most of us actually give the US government a service for the payment. Perhaps those that view it as assistance should re-evaluate their worth as a US govrernment employee and read the above paragraphs. The fact that it comes from the same source is not really relevant.

These are my thoughts on this subject.

I am looking forward to hearing about all the resignations of those feel their federal paycheck is an assistance payment! The deficit will be reduced and many work places will show improved productivity. I have much hope for change!

 

[burrocrat]

All of your food money, and mine, come from the same source

Sorry, i got a little carried away there. What i meant to say was...

You're right fire, i agree, same source.

Can you agree that there's an important difference in how folks access that source?

And would you mind turning over?

 

[burrocrat]

Well now i'm confused. That's some pretty slick talkin the way you turned that around there. I was going to say either i'm a poor communicator or you suck at understanding but that wouldn't be nice.

So let me think out loud on that one for a bit. Let's see, i trade my skill and labor, which takes time, for cash. And then i trade that cash for food. Seems pretty obvious, nothing sinister there, that's how i was taught as a kid to not go hungry. But maybe i'm just close minded and following the old ways by rote because they work (key word there, work) and there could be a different but equally viable way to achieve sustenance.

Alternatively, i could for whatever reason not work. Maybe i'm down on my luck, or my boss is a jerk and it stresses me out because he wants me to work too hard all the time, or my mom was mean, or i'm infirm, or just plain incapable. But i still get hungry just the same as everyone else. So how do i eat? Fortunately, other folks without all those real or imagined impediments to success have managed their affairs such that they have extra. Well, maybe not extra but at least enough to share, and share they do by virtue of the tax code. So i get this cash and trade it for food.

Eureka! I get it now! Either way cash gets traded for food and i'm no longer hungry because it's not fair that not everybody gets a warm fuzzy everytime. You're right, it's the same trade at the counter, cash for food. Let's not quibble about where it comes from because it all comes from the same printing press anyway. Man this pee wee tee ball game is fun because everybody gets to hit a home run. Screw you darwin!

You can try to turn me around anytime friend. But please quit turning me over, i'm a little sore.

 

[burrocrat]

Btw, where does you paycheck come from?

Unfortunately, i'm not sure where my paycheck comes from. I serve at the pleasure of the taxpayer, so i'd like to think it comes from revenue. But since we as a nation spend about 1.5 times what we earn, there's about a 1/3 chance it comes out of the free money pool. Which would suck because i give honest effort and don't want to be rewarded with the funny money.

Maybe we could prorate it so that 2/3 is actual earned money and 1/3 is conjured out of the full faith and credit thin air. Which is probably what really happens since they take about 1/3 of my gross before i ever see it like it never existed anyway.

That's a pretty cool perpetual financial motion machine we managed to build for ourselves, make it - give it - take it, all in the blink of a digital eye. I'm glad it seems like it's pretty content to feed on itself, cause if the monster ever gets hungry look out.

 

[burrocrat]

Bashing? Huh?

I stated the facts. 1) he bought food with public benefits. 2) people who work paid for it.

I did not begrudge the man a meal. I did recognize where the meal came from.

Perhaps it's all a matter of perspective. We see what we want to see i guess.

 

[clester]

Unbelievable. Since when did it become fashionable to bash poor folk? I worry about you guys.

Btw, where does you paycheck come from?

 

[clester]

Whoa, y'alls worrying too much about the why and forgetting the what.



I know what that man did.

He bought food. With food stamps. Oh snap. Either he couldn't or wouldn't work for food. So we bought him lunch. Simple as that.

How many reading this are on food stamps? If not why not? It's free you know. Well, not really, it's on account.

On account of folks who contribute. Get with the program.

Unbelievable. Since when did it become fashionable to bash poor folk? I worry about you guys.

 

[burrocrat]

Whoa, y'alls worrying too much about the why and forgetting the what.

you don't know what that man did.

I know what that man did.

He bought food. With food stamps. Oh snap. Either he couldn't or wouldn't work for food. So we bought him lunch. Simple as that.

How many reading this are on food stamps? If not why not? It's free you know. Well, not really, it's on account.

On account of folks who contribute. Get with the program.

 

[Birchtree]

Some are raised in radical egalitarianism - they are just wired differently. There're are going to be many municipalities going bankrupt in California because of liberal policies.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.

UPS paid it's share of taxes. You may not like that UPS was able to reduce it's tax burden through the use of legal tax avoiding procedures, but they did pay their share of taxes. Those taxes also paid for the roads.

 

[Buffalo_Nickle]

i love these type discussions..., reminds me back in the day when Wimpy and Birch touched' at whits end and nobody ever got offended, oh well the good discussions are gone here now, some young GS 13 in California feels hurt and whomever is outlawed and ostracized. Sadly enough is our society, because everyone is scared to express truthful opinions on how it really is or should be!

 

[ILoveTDs]

Mapper, your letting Birch get to you.

Birch story is completly false, anyone who knows anything about food stamps knows you don't have a paper food stamp anymore. Food stamps are "loaded" on a plastic card, and their will be NO CHANGE.

 

[Aitrus]

Just a note, just who paid for public infrastruture...

I agree with this post, but...

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.

I also agree with what you're saying. Yes, UPS didn't build the roads they drive on, so they should pay for the privelege of using them. But that's why they get taxed at the pump just like everybody else. It's not their fault if those taxes don't go toward maintenance of those roads and paying back road building loans like they should. That's the fault of Congresses at both the State and Federal levels.

In the end, we're being taxed enough, both individuals and businesses. We could eat the rich for 100% of everything they earned for the last year and we wouldn't pay for this year's budget, not to mention paying back on debt. Look here: EAT THE RICH! - YouTube We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Well, that and omibus bills that are filled with things that have nothing to do with the title of the bill itself.

 

[Mapper]

I went grocery shopping yesterday, while in the store checkout line there was a middle age black guy in front of me. The only thing he bought was a sinle banana that he paid for with food stamps. What is interesting is that he collected cash back. What do you think he will buy with that cash - buy crank or Mogen David. Unfortunately there appears to be around 47 million people on food stamps that will never aspire to the upper classes. Who's fault is that?

One more thing. In this little anecdote, why would you assume this man used the cash back for drugs or booze. Couldn't he just as easily be saving the money for next month. Maybe he's a stellar planner and stayed under budget for the month and found a way to set a little aside for a better future. After all, he bought a banana, quite the responsible food item, as opposed to the Mt. dew or twinkie or some other crap you might expect from a junkie, regardless of color. It's entirely possible he did the same things you do with the leftover money you have, save for the future. The point is, unless you are completely omniscient, which we know you aren't, you don't know what that man did.

 

[Mapper]

Just a note, just who paid for public infrastructure, we and our parents and grandparents paid for it, not the government so what's the point? When needed I will gladly pay for more, but not for Bullet Trains and bridges to nowhere for political reasons.

That is true. But I know, for example, UPS makes extensive use of roads. The whole community (rich, poor and middle class) chipped in to build the roads. You may think UPS should have built it's own infrastructure but that's not what happened.