Middle Class Bubble

I will absolutely Zero Out your tax increases. Did it before, know how to do it, and will act again.
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Should this be a special instruction thread, while we still have time to learn? :)
 
I like the idea of a private board for expressing political opinion. Will kinda keep the dirty laundry out of public view:p. And, more importantly, out of the face of those who do not want to participate.

Out where I live there is a knife sharpening service outside our local Sprouts Grocery store.

I'll get my eye teeth sharpened for the debate.
 
Oh shoot. I maybe should have thought that last out a bit. What if i'm one of the unforgiven?

Great movie by the way, as are all movies with gene hackman, morgan freeman, or clint eastwood in them.
 
tsptalk said:
With the election coming up, I am considering opening a new area for politics again, but there's a catch.

I am considering a Private Political Forum - like the Premium Services forums where only those with permission to view can anticipate.

We know that arguments can get ugly in politics, even if clean and within the rules, and a private forum will shield lurkers and those uninterested from running across these posts.

It's obvious that some folks can't talk politics. They are passionate but don't have ability to talk civilly to someone with whom they disagree. So, a private forum will allow us to keep these folks out, while not having to ban them from the entire TSP Talk forum. We'll understand that things can get heated, but the forum rules will apply. Disrespect other members? Out. Name calling, etc. Out.

I'll think about this weekend. Any comments, suggestions, etc?
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I like that idea. I promise to be good this time. No wait, i promise to be better. No wait, i promise i'll try harder. Yeah, that's it. I can keep that promise.

Just please don't hit me with the wiffle bat too hard. What is the application process/which 'i swear i won't cry when someone kicks my flawed logic ass' waiver do i have to sign?
 
SkyPilot,

I think the relatively recent problem with the 'middle class' is that we began to think we were rich. How many middle class families and individuals refinanced their houses or jiggered their credit cards to buy a new Lexus rather than a used Lexus or a smart looking Ford? We all watched (and some of us enjoyed being) folks who did this. Are you middle class if you own a McMansion, lease a new luxury car every three years, go out to eat three times a week, go on European vacations with borrowed money, etc.? The middle class has temporarily shrunk because we are deleveraging and learning to live like middle class again. It's not so bad. We will be back:).

Now the nice thing is this: The fat is coming off. When the middle class does not waste their assets and learns to live like their middle class parents and their middle class grandparents and their middle class great grand parents (within reason of course - I ain't giving up my cell phone, microwave, clothes washer, television, high mpg car, efficient air conditioner, nice flooring, stone shower enclosure, or magnificent tungsten darts) we will actually bump up against the rich. It will be the free spending middle class that will become the working poor. The working poor will bump up against the responsible middle. That is how things work.

Now, if we could just get the middle class tax rate below 1/3rd of income. That would help, eh FWM. My tax burden is higher than my mortgage. But, to do so we have to accept that the Boomer Generation has demanded quite a bit more out of their government than prior generations and actually more than the current GenXers. Good thing we GenXers refuse to play and there are ways to shield income from the tax man. I still have a bit of room waiting in my 401(k) (TSP) contributions for the tax increase Governor Moonbeam wants to implement in Kalefornea. Message to Moonbeam and President Obama - I will absolutely Zero Out your tax increases. Did it before, know how to do it, and will act again.

Ah, that felt good. On topic - but able to launch a scud or two.


SkyPilot said:
Wow! This thread has really been hijacked! Back to the main point, that being is there really a "middle class" and if so, is it temporary or sustainable?

Earlier someone posited that the middle class was an extension of the trade guilds of the middle ages, but to me that is not really equivalent to the middle class of today as they were owners, and the workers and apprentices really did not participate. But this may be an inadequate understanding on my part.

That brings us then to the question "what is the Middle Class"?

Is it financial status, social status, professional status or what?

This is not really political, but rather sociological isn't it?

Let us inform ourselves, and let out wisdom and understanding inform our politics, and not enter into the polarization that the politicos are depending on.
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Aitrus said:
I know I'm new here, but I'll give you my 1/50th of a dollar on it. The best management I've seen was a system where there were 3 levels of access.

Level 1 was for newbies and lurkers only. These threads would be for things that the board and site were specifically set up for, and here I'm guessing it would be the Market Outlook, individual Account talks, etc.

Level 2 could be reached after you had posted a certain number of times and held threads on religion, politics, and other potentially flamatory topics. In the case I mention the number was 50 posts in good standing, meaning, that in the opinion of the moderators the individual had behaved well enough to be rewarded with increased access. In this way we were able to have lively discussions while at the same time protecting our reputation (such as it was) a little in the public eye. Having Level 2 was also a useful tool for behavior correction. Instead of having only the Ban Hammer to punish somebody, somebody could be Whiffle Batted back to Level 1 until they had earned their Level 2 privleges again.

Level 3 was reserved for the paying members. Level 2 permissions was a useful temporary banishment area for Level 3 miscreants who need to be Whiffle Batted back into line a bit. That said, however, I think that Whiffle Batting any Level 3s here back to Level 2 wouldn't be right as many Level 3s probably use the information in those threads to base financial decisions, so I would hesitate before utilizing that method here.
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Interesting idea. Thanks for sharing. We haven't really had any problems here, except when it come to politics. We tried it for a year or so, and it got so bad that I started a new, separate website just for that. That site got so unappealing to me that I gave it away to another member to run.

So we have 2 choices. 1) No political discussions here or 2) limited access. But your idea throws in another option. Thanks.

Sorry for the hijack SkyPilot. If this discussion doesn't end I'll move the posts to a new thread.
 
Middle class is a state of mind.


SkyPilot said:
Wow! This thread has really been hijacked! Back to the main point, that being is there really a "middle class" and if so, is it temporary or sustainable?

Earlier someone posited that the middle class was an extension of the trade guilds of the middle ages, but to me that is not really equivalent to the middle class of today as they were owners, and the workers and apprentices really did not participate. But this may be an inadequate understanding on my part.

That brings us then to the question "what is the Middle Class"?

Is it financial status, social status, professional status or what?

This is not really political, but rather sociological isn't it?

Let us inform ourselves, and let out wisdom and understanding inform our politics, and not enter into the polarization that the politicos are depending on.
Click to expand...
 
Wow! This thread has really been hijacked! Back to the main point, that being is there really a "middle class" and if so, is it temporary or sustainable?

Earlier someone posited that the middle class was an extension of the trade guilds of the middle ages, but to me that is not really equivalent to the middle class of today as they were owners, and the workers and apprentices really did not participate. But this may be an inadequate understanding on my part.

That brings us then to the question "what is the Middle Class"?

Is it financial status, social status, professional status or what?

This is not really political, but rather sociological isn't it?

Let us inform ourselves, and let out wisdom and understanding inform our politics, and not enter into the polarization that the politicos are depending on.
 
FireWeatherMet said:
I have no problem with those rules...as long as its not the old boys club deciding who's in or out based mainly on ones political views.
They are by far the ones who seem most prone to name calling, instead of just passionately discussing issues.
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FWM, you know that I respect you and your views despite our differences of opinion, but this kind of thing bugs me. How many times have you been banned from the forum? Our friend Birchtree leads in that category. And when's the last time you saw McDuck? I could name a few others. You don't know when we give negative reputation for posts, or send warnings via PM, or ban someone for a few weeks / months. I know you can't know what goes on behind the scenes. So please... I really do try to be fair.

I agree with you on the name calling side, but they are also more thick skinned and do far less complaining. I editted this post going into the stereotypes of each side, but I thought better of posting it. :)
 
tsptalk said:
With the election coming up, I am considering opening a new area for politics again, but there's a catch.

I am considering a Private Political Forum - like the Premium Services forums where only those with permission to view can anticipate.

We know that arguments can get ugly in politics, even if clean and within the rules, and a private forum will shield lurkers and those uninterested from running across these posts.

It's obvious that some folks can't talk politics. They are passionate but don't have ability to talk civilly to someone with whom they disagree. So, a private forum will allow us to keep these folks out, while not having to ban them from the entire TSP Talk forum. We'll understand that things can get heated, but the forum rules will apply. Disrespect other members? Out. Name calling, etc. Out.

I'll think about this weekend. Any comments, suggestions, etc?
Click to expand...


I know I'm new here, but I'll give you my 1/50th of a dollar on it. The best management I've seen was a system where there were 3 levels of access.

Level 1 was for newbies and lurkers only. These threads would be for things that the board and site were specifically set up for, and here I'm guessing it would be the Market Outlook, individual Account talks, etc.

Level 2 could be reached after you had posted a certain number of times and held threads on religion, politics, and other potentially flamatory topics. In the case I mention the number was 50 posts in good standing, meaning, that in the opinion of the moderators the individual had behaved well enough to be rewarded with increased access. In this way we were able to have lively discussions while at the same time protecting our reputation (such as it was) a little in the public eye. Having Level 2 was also a useful tool for behavior correction. Instead of having only the Ban Hammer to punish somebody, somebody could be Whiffle Batted back to Level 1 until they had earned their Level 2 privleges again.

Level 3 was reserved for the paying members. Level 2 permissions was a useful temporary banishment area for Level 3 miscreants who need to be Whiffle Batted back into line a bit. That said, however, I think that Whiffle Batting any Level 3s here back to Level 2 wouldn't be right as many Level 3s probably use the information in those threads to base financial decisions, so I would hesitate before utilizing that method here.
 
FireWeatherMet said:
I have no problem with those rules...as long as its not the old boys club deciding who's in or out based mainly on ones political views.
They are by far the ones who seem most prone to name calling, instead of just passionately discussing issues.
Click to expand...
And who might that be? copsticket.gif
 
Who is he calling old boy - there was a time when a woman would call me cute and the term boy was regarded as a compliment.
 
I often find it difficult to communicate with liberals without being somewhat vituperative - but I never use profanity. Would a name like peterhead be acceptable or is that too sensitive?
 
With the election coming up, I am considering opening a new area for politics again, but there's a catch.

I am considering a Private Political Forum - like the Premium Services forums where only those with permission to view can anticipate.

We know that arguments can get ugly in politics, even if clean and within the rules, and a private forum will shield lurkers and those uninterested from running across these posts.

It's obvious that some folks can't talk politics. They are passionate but don't have ability to talk civilly to someone with whom they disagree. So, a private forum will allow us to keep these folks out, while not having to ban them from the entire TSP Talk forum. We'll understand that things can get heated, but the forum rules will apply. Disrespect other members? Out. Name calling, etc. Out.

I'll think about this weekend. Any comments, suggestions, etc?
 
I feel oh so lucky today that FWM is not striving to rip me a new one - can you all smell that superlative bull manure that is wafting across the board.
 
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