Market Talk

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The Kingdom of TSP

Daily Edition

Market News, Doodles, Tea Leaves & Yak Date: Oct. 4, Closing


Market News.

Kingdom Talk:. Poor profits plunge stox? Or was it the Yak of the Creature?

Elsewhere: Cartel refuses to reign in Rats.

Elsewhere: Lube at 2-week low.


Doodles and Tea Leaves - Daily.

Doodles:
S&P 500 (Index)
Closed at..............1214.47, dn -12.23
CMF (money flow) at.-0.063, dn
RSI (strength) at......43.9, dn
MACD (trend)....bearish
S-STO (signal)...Undetermined
P-SAR (signal)...bullish
ROC (change)....bearish (-1.89)

Light Crude (NYM)
Closed at..........63.80, dn -1.67

Tea Leaves:................Mixed colors


Yak.

Remarks:..........Holding 40/60
S&P Stops:........Alert: 1217[broken], Trail: 1205.
Oil Markers:......<64= ok, 64-69= worry, >69= panic.
 
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Birchtree wrote:
The hedge funds try to create volatility so thay can trade to try and make quick $.
Isn't this the kind of thing that could cause a 1929-like crash? :%
 
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"The question assumes a fact; how do you know the rate hike is the onlycause?"

I guess you're right, correlation is not causation. When the indexes deflated, the media latched onto the idea that somebody's comments in Dallas spooked the market. Maybe nobody knows why it went down, or we'll know in a month.

I guess I'll back up and review my assumptions.

I don't know whether to feel good about coming off the sidelines after a sell-off like that, or to be worried that I jumped onto an avalanche.

In any event, it's still fun.


"Isn't this the kind of thing that could cause a 1929-like crash? :%"

Can there be another 1929-like crash? I don't think there really can be with the willingness of government to jump in and intervene. Teckno probably has a lot of insight into this.
 
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Don't be scared of September job loss


http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/04/new...eview/index.htm

Don't be scared of September job loss
haha.gif

First drop since May '03 forecast for next jobs report; economists say ignore it due to Katrina.
October 4, 2005: 2:09 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - This Friday's monthly employment report is probably going to be pretty scary -- it's predicted to show thatSeptember saw the first decline in U.S. payrolls since May 2003.

But smart investors won't overreact to the number, which will be affected not only by Hurricane Katrina's impact on the labor market, but by the Labor Department's ability to collect data through surveys in the affected Gulf Coast region.



"I think it's fair to say to say it'll be the least important or most distorted jobs report in memory," said Anthony Chan, senior economist with JPMorgan Asset Management. "Maybe both."

Because of questions about the surveys that are used by theLabor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) to compile the report, economists' forecasts vary widely.

Economists surveyed by Briefing.com expect a loss of 150,000 jobs to be reported, while Reuters' survey comes up with a consensus of a 129,000-job loss, with a range of estimates that stretch from Lehman's projection of a 400,000 decline to Citigroup's prediction of only a 25,000 decline.

The consensus forecast from both Briefing and Reuters for the unemployment rate is for it to rise to 5.1 percent from August's 4.9 percent, before Katrina hit. But again the range of forecasts is much wider than normal, stretching from 4.9 to 5.3 percent.

"We're basically guessing how the BLS adjusts for Katrina, which is an even bigger stretch than we normally have to do," said Gina Martin, an economist with Wachovia Securities.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics will adjust the way it compiles the report to try to adjust for those displaced by the storm. But it will not come up with an estimate of how many people lost their jobs due to the storm, said BLS analyst Bill Goodman.

"We can't quantify the effect, even the direct effect. We can't given even a rough estimate," he said.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the storm cost 400,000 jobs, at least temporarily.

But despite the problems with the numbers, some believe that markets will react after the 8:30 a.m. ET report.

"Economists all realize this number is not a big deal, but people will be trading on the number this week whether it's a big deal or not," said Martin.


Overall economy shows strengthGiven the expected impact of Katrina on the payroll number, the economists' forecasts suggest that they see underlying strength in the national labor market close to pre-storm levels.The employer survey had found an average of 194,000 jobs added during each of the first 8 months of the year before the storm.

Economists say that even with the devastation on the Gulf Coast, that job loss will start to work itself out sooner rather than later.

"These jobs are not lost forever," said Chan. "When you take into account everything coming through the pipeline, all Federal aid, all the insurance money, there will be a lot of jobs created by recovery efforts. Remember the GDP of New Orleans was about $40 billion annually before the storm. We'll easily see more than that being pumped into the system."

Still Katrina is enough to cause severe data collection problems.

Part of the problem is that if an employer is called by the Labor Department and it doesn't answer, the department will conclude it is at least temporarily closed and without employees, even if its workers are all still on the job at remote locations. That means that the job losses could be overstated by the employer survey.

Meanwhile, people who had to leave their homes in the Gulf Coast due to storm damage may end up being counted as no longer in the labor force. The lower number of people included in the labor force could mean the unemployment rate may register lower than it really is, according to economists.

One thing that won't affect this report is Hurricane Rita. The data was collected and surveys conducted a full week before evacuations from the Houston and Texas Gulf Coast began due to the threat posed by that storm.

Still all the problems with this month's report is leaving economists scratching their heads as they prepare to weigh the data.

"I think Friday's will be impossible to analyze," said economist Greg Valliere of the Stanford Washington Research Group. "But everyone said all the numbers this week would be ignored, and the ISM number caused a big sell-off in the bond market." The ISM, which came out on Monday, is a survey of manufacturing executives about their business conditions. This month's report showed strong orders and manufacturing activity but also a big jump in prices paid for raw materials and other goods by the businesses.

Valliere said that even if investors overreact to the jobs report, he can't believe that anything in report will move the Federal Reserve off its path of "measured" quarter-percentage point rate hikes.

"I think the number is going to be so unreliable, so fluky, I don't see this number by itself changing the scenario for the Fed," he said.

For more on the impact of Hurricane Katrina on jobs, click here.
 
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Fed presidents offer cautionary tale
Top policymakers say they are keeping watch on inflation, ready to act if problems arise.
October 4, 2005: 6:17 PM EDT

Thanks guys it is greatly appreciated. Fishers comments today were very Greenspan-esque. "The inflation rate is near the upper end of the Fed's tolerance zone, and it shows little inclination to go in the other direction,"

Talk about a major one liner. The inflation rate is what keep the Fed rate on its measure pace. If inflation falls too low outside the Fed's 'tolerance zone' then we get a rate pause. If the inflation rate goes above this 'tolerance zone' then we get more frequent surprise hikes or larger moves up.

Remember once inflation is set into motion it it's difficult to slow down. You can't just halt inflation, or pause on rate hikes because you think the inflation rate is contained. The very definition of contained is not used property by the Fed as it makes people assume that inflation is locked in some kind of box were it's not doing any growing. But it is INFLATION. The very work means growth. When the Fed suggests inflation is contained it means that it is still growing but at the pace it finds acceptable. When inflation is in a healthy range of growth we will continue to get a measured pace of hikes.

Until we get a recession rate hikes will continues.



SEATTLE (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve is keeping a wary eye on inflation that is running at its maximum tolerable rate, and is prepared to take action if problems develop, two top Federal Reserve policy-makers said Tuesday.

The remarks from Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President Richard Fisher and St. Louis Fed bank president William Poole further underlined the central bank's apparent concern with inflation rather the chance of slower growth after hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

"The inflation rate is near the upper end of the Fed's tolerance zone, and it shows little inclination to go in the other direction," Fisher told the Greater Dallas Chamber of Commerce. He said hefty energy price rises were adding "demand pressures" to the economy that had to be watched.

Separately in Seattle, Poole said the U.S. central bank would be flexible if inflation risks become heightened and said financial markets, which have grown used to more transparency in policymaking, understand that is so.

"I have no doubt that both the FOMC (Federal Open Market Committee) and the market would respond to surprises in core inflation that seem likely to persist and to indicate a developing inflation problem," Poole said.
Fed more open

The Fed in 2003 introduced forward-looking language into its policy statements which accompany each FOMC meeting. Since then, the degree of surprise in markets to subsequent policy action has been muted.

"It is quite clear that the markets understand Fed policy to a much better extent than before," Poole said. "My own view is that the market's improved understanding, and the Fed's efforts to improve clarity of monetary policy decisions, has much to do with the economy's improved stability."

Over the past few weeks, a number of Fed officials have emphasized the central bank's determination to keep inflation under control, leading financial markets to believe the rate-rise cycle may not be as near an end as some had previously thought.

At its last policy meeting two weeks ago, the Fed raised the benchmark overnight lending rate by a quarter-percentage point to 3.75 percent. It was the 11th straight increase series of hikes that started in mid-2004, when the bank-to-bank rate stood at a 1958 low of 1 percent.

In a statement outlining its Sept. 20 decision, the Fed expressed concern Katrina could boost inflation pressures and said the hit to economic growth from the storm was likely to be fleeting. It also repeated its expectation that it could continue to push rates higher at a "measured" pace.
Narrow inflation target

Poole said the Fed wanted to keep so-called core inflation, which excludes volatile food and energy costs, within a fairly narrow range to prevent a threat to expansion.

"Our aim is to keep inflation, in general, down," Poole said. "If I had to pick a point, it is to keep these broad measures in a 1 to 2 percent range."

Poole is not a voting member of the policy-setting FOMC this year. He said markets had moved most on employment data, with investors evidently deciding that it "is a significant influence on the path of the intended funds rate", while inflation was generally ignored because it has not caused big surprises.

Fisher, who is a voter on the FOMC this year, told reporters after his formal address that policy-makers were keenly aware of the potential impact of heightened price pressures.

"We have to watch things very carefully here because there are inflationary pressures and ... (the Fed's) duty is to be especially vigilant on that front," Fisher said. "The question really is .... 'How much pricing power is there, or leeway to pass on prices?"'

He added that "clearly there is some pressure there and now we'll have to see how it manifests itself."

-------------

Focused on the Fed? Click here for more. Top of page



Find this article at:
http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/04/news/economy/fed_fisher.reut/index.htm
 
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:):^,

Been off line a little of late...got a comment or two on this inflation thing....

This whole thing about inflation is situationary....meaning if you look at the M3 money supply being doubled since '99, then its not inflationary.....but if you look at what its costing the consumer who doesn't get pay raises with the M3 money supply increase it is....

So, the big question is, why are the interest rates going up....??? Is it or isn't it inflationary.....well it is since our economy is 2/3 dependent on consumer spending...printing more money to make the Fed deficit seem lower just causes another problem...its more like taxation without representation to the citizen....and we will all suffer for the pigs in Washington who don't know how to look after our money, instead they think that the Fed coffers is a piggy bank and will pilfer it until we're broke....there should be more control on how our hard earned tax dollars are spent, and I don't mean by a vote by reprensentatives of the people who are bought off with special interest monies....

By the way, I have historical data that this very thing was a public sore back in the early 1800's......so the boat is still sinking.....and the people are still bailing on the political spendingincorrectness of the politicians.

We really need a new ways of controlling spending in the govt.....mandatory limits on taxing and spending in certain areas eachyearis the first step....business attraction is always the key, and freedom wins by a long shot in this area.....there are several other methods that can be used, but just try to look at your family financing and spending methods to come up with ideas....it does work...

:dude:
 
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Some Comments from a Tech:

When the S&P 500 closed just 0.62 points above its 50-day moving average on Monday, I expected the bounce we got yesterday, but it provided very short term encouragement. The steep decline at the end of the day moved the market right down to the uptrend line we spoke about. This trendline is the last "clean" support level before a few minor supports are encountered. However, the 200-day moving average is an important one, and then there's the major support band between 1190 and 1194.90 where the June decline was stopped.
05derfSP.gif
 
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Market direction;)

Personally, I'm looking for the market to make a short short term rebound here over the next couple of days and then go south again......further south than what we are today...:?...I would almost say we are going to start that Slip Sliding Away thingy I keep mentioning til EOY...:^

I don't know about them Redskins ...haven't been watching NFL....but my son's JV team is undefeated...and it looks like they will be undefeated at the EOY also....GO RAMS GO!!!! They're kicking butt and takeing names of the defeated as they go....

:dude:
 
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Wow. :shock:

Either I'll look like a genius for buying today, or I'll just get slaughtered. :s
 
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Mike wrote:
Wow. :shock:

Either I'll look like a genius for buying today, or I'll just get slaughtered. :s
Between now and 930 AM ET tomorrow, you look like a genius. But that might change by the end of the week.
 
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Citizen wrote:
I think today is going to leave a mark...:?
On 12/31/04 the C-fund was $12.91 per share. Today COB it will be back to thatexact amount +/- a penny.
 
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Did the S&P drop all the way to its 200 MA? If it didn't, it's gotta be awfully close to it...


Edit: per Tom's chart, today's close is basically right on the 200 day MA (~1196).
 
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The Kingdom of TSP

Daily Edition

Market News, Doodles, Tea Leaves & Yak Date: Oct. 5, Closing


Market News.

Kingdom Talk:. The Lows have it! Horsemen of the Cartel strike fear into Vestors.

Elsewhere:...... Lube at 2-month low.


Doodles and Tea Leaves - Daily.

Doodles:
S&P 500 (Index)
Closed at.............1196.39, dn -18.08
CMF (money flow) at.-0.152, dn
RSI (strength) at......34.8, dn
MACD (trend)....bearish
S-STO (signal)...bearish
P-SAR (signal)...bearish
ROC (change)...bearish

Light Crude (NYM)
Closed at..........62.79, dn -1.11

Tea Leaves:................Red


Yak.

Remarks:........Holding 40/60
S&P Stops:.....Alert: 1217[broken], Trail: 1205[broken].
Oil Markers:....<64= ok, 64-69= worry, >69= panic.
 
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YTD Returns (since 12/31/2004)
I-fund8.14%
S-fund4.68%
G-fund3.28%
F-fund1.73%
C-fund0.15%

Return since 08/01/2005 - Date that L-funds were started
L2040-0.43%
L2030-0.44%
L2020-0.15%
L20100.08%
L-Inc0.26%
 
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Either I'll look like a genius for buying today, or I'll just get slaughtered. :s
Um, well, I was kinda congratulating myself on buying in last night.

"Yes, yes... It's all coming together, and I timed it perfectly!"

I just got slaughtered. :s
 
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