Market Talk

[Guest]

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I just read something that I thought was interesting. For the first time the average american has $0 in savings. That would mean for the 13k I put in a year to TSP plus my other investments, that someone out there is just spending the quivelent amount.

Just wondering, if true, how can so many people be irresponsible?

 

[Show-me]

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rondalw wrote:

I just read something that I thought was interesting. For the first time the average american has $0 in savings. That would mean for the 13k I put in a year to TSP plus my other investments, that someone out there is just spending the quivelent amount.

Just wondering, if true, how can so many people be irresponsible?

Easy it's called marketing. 0% interest, no money down, bad credit accepted, buy now before its to late, rebate, rebate, rebate, last chance, never a deal like this again, title loans, credit cards, refinance, buy a bigger home, low interest, interest only loan, CHARGE IT!!!!!!!!!!

Self gratifying, consumer drive economy, entitlement programs, welfare, ect!

We don’t teach people to save in the media. Just spend it life is short, someone will take care of you later.

 

[Guest]

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Show-Me: I guess that was my concern. We will have to take care of these people. Scary!

 

[Show-me]

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You bet its scary and no one has a fix or the will to make the hard choice.

 

[Guest]

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Okay, let me open the Pandor's box: Private Accounts? Force the savings.

 

[Show-me]

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Ok, Pandora. Private accounts are another band aid. Won’t work as long as politicians are in charge of it. Force us.............I don’t like to be forced to do anything. It’s that freedom thing.

People are part of the animal kingdom and animals do not like to do things the hard way even if it’s for their own good. Animal do not like change.

This is why we can get people to use dollar coins instead of bills. Coins last 30 years, bills last 3 weeks. We spend a small “tax payer fund” fortune on printing bills every year.

The government can’t make people “save” it’s against the will. Self-gratification is the way. We smoke and drink because it makes us feel good even though we KNOW it cause liver disease, heart disease, and cancer. Then we wonder why we are sick in our 40’s or 50’s. Drink more soda it make you feel good. Coke and a smile! Coke-cola was a cure all made with, I think, a cocaine derivative. Don’t forget driving fast, saturated fat, sunscreen, blah, blah, blah.

Sorry, I’m ranting! Point is we the people want to live large and enjoy life no matter what it cost us or anyone else in the future. Some of use get wisdom later in life but by then the damage is done.

Just one man’s opinion! Not the gospel or correct in any way, just opinion.

 

[Mike]

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The 0% savings rate is NOT TRUE. The government uses an incorrect formula that generates numbers that are flat-out wrong.

To generate this number, they take income and subtract spending. Well, 401(k) plans are taken *before* taxes and therefore are not part of your "take home" pay. So, that won't show up in these numbers. Equity in your house also won't show up in these numbers. When you pay a mortgage off, the money isn't just vanishing into a bottomless pit - it's building equity in the property.

This just happens to be one case where the government is completely wrong about what it's claiming.

Yeesh, I felt like DMA when I posted this. :l

Americans have more money in assets than any other country in the world.

Edit: yes, I know full well we have a debt problem in this country - illustrated by bankruptcy filings + the federal government's horrid spending rate. However, to say that as individuals, nobody is saving is a total outright lie. We are, they just aren't measuring it correctly. The trillions of dollars in investment accounts had to come from *somewhere*, didn't they?

 

[Show-me]

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Mike,

All depends on your definition of savings.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Asavings+account

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:savings

I think of it as cash that is not an investment.

 

[coolhand]

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Mike wrote:

The government uses an incorrect formula that generates numbers that are flat-out wrong.

No way Mike! The Government would never mislead us! o

Yeesh, I felt like DMA when I posted this. :l

:x

 

[Spaf]

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The Kingdom of TSP

Daily Edition

Market News, Doodles, Tea Leaves & Yak Date August 10, 2005, Closing


Market News.

Kingdom Talk: Spiked in the back!! Aggggg! Market party raided by Krude! Horsemen sends vestors scampering for exits!

Elsewhere: Clothing store sales up...Run on clean undies!

Elsewhere: Vestors suspect conspiracy that as IFT closes 12CT, oil advances, on the minute.


Doodles and Tea Leaves - Daily.

Doodles:
S&P 500 (Index)
Closed at 1229.13, dn -2.25
CMF (money flow) at 0.000, dn
RSI (strength) at 52.1, dn
MACD (trend) bearish
Slow STO (signal) neutral/oversold
ROC (change) at -0.01, rising

Light Crude (NYM)
Closed at 64.90, up -1.83

Tea Leaves: Yellow


Yak.

Remarks: Holding 50/50
S&P Stops: Alert=1233 [broken], Trail=1221

 

[Guest]

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I am sorry to be in the negative but, home equity is not savings. Stock equity is really not savings until it is realized. No we as a nation are debtors. Me as an individual is not.
(pardon teh english).

To be fooled by false savingswill not be good. If I can't write a check, pay cash or just not buy it, makes no sense.

Private account payments are the same. Most pay already into A DEFUNCT out-dated system.

Time to wake up and get real. We must take care of our individual famalies. Those that won't must be forced.

 

[Guest]

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Birchtree wrote:

I noticed where the Chinese are buying 42 of the Boeing 787 planes. These things can fly anywhere none stop for fuel. They hold up to 400 people and would be able to fly from Peking to St Louis none stop. Do they have river boat gambling on the mississippi river up that far inland. Yes, they will be here before you know it. Went to a Chinese restaurant the other evening and in the fortune cookie they are now teaching Chinese language words. Mine was friend = peng. Think of the possibilities- having a hotel with only futon beds - luxury chop sticks, etc.

Great thinking. I bet their immigrant would stamp those visas in a SECOND.

 

[Guest]

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Birchtree wrote:

Futures this morning are indicating a strong opening - which means at least a nice spike up on the open and goodness maybe a runaway for the rest of the day. I would certainly like to see penetration of 1245 on the sp500 by Friday. I think there is choir practice tonight for the G fund curb folks.

SPX 1220 - watch it.

 

[Guest]

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Mike wrote:

The 0% savings rate is NOT TRUE. The government uses an incorrect formula that generates numbers that are flat-out wrong.

To generate this number, they take income and subtract spending. Well, 401(k) plans are taken *before* taxes and therefore are not part of your "take home" pay. So, that won't show up in these numbers. Equity in your house also won't show up in these numbers. When you pay a mortgage off, the money isn't just vanishing into a bottomless pit - it's building equity in the property.

This just happens to be one case where the government is completely wrong about what it's claiming.

Yeesh, I felt like DMA when I posted this. :l

Americans have more money in assets than any other country in the world.

Edit: yes, I know full well we have a debt problem in this country - illustrated by bankruptcy filings + the federal government's horrid spending rate. However, to say that as individuals, nobody is saving is a total outright lie. We are, they just aren't measuring it correctly. The trillions of dollars in investment accounts had to come from *somewhere*, didn't they?

They do not count mortgage interestand home line ofinterest towards the savings rate. Actually savings rate is around -3% (and rising).

China saves about 20%.

But what do I know? Who's highest bill each month is their mortgage? We all live in caves and eat grass if you believe their numbers.

 

[Guest]

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Oh Lord, strike me down. I must concur with DMA (who was absent for 1 1/2 days) the savings rate and our obligation to support fools is growing.

Forced savings and education in schools (early) on life skills (rent, mortgage, interest, etc..) should be mandatory.

 

[Guest]

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DMA wrote:

Lot of folks got jammed on CSCO.

Like INTC and GE earnings they are "normally" good for a shoot in the arm for a day or three.

I am on the other side of that trade. :shock:

6% gain in twelve minutes. 200% short for the am on Crisco. :dude:

1.36 (6.94%) :shock:

The above post was from last night. I have been on travel.

 

[Guest]

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double the fun

 

[Mike]

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Who wouldn't consider an investment to be savings? I have 15% of my pay taken out pretax for TSP - if that's not savings, what the hell is? :h

If you spend your money on something that is likely to be worth a lot more later, I would count it as savings. Owning property = asset = savings. Owning stocks/etf's/mutual funds= assets = savings. When you retire, you aren't raiding a savings account. You're selling stocks and bonds most likely.

I can't find any compelling reason to "save" at a higher rate by their definition (i.e. by taking more of my net income and dumping it into a savings account / money market). Yes, we should have a cushion in these things for emergencies, but if you are expecting any massive rate of savings here, it isn't going to happen. I'm more responsible with my money than most, and I don't even kick *that* much into these things. The rate of return is too low.

 

[Guest]

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Mike they count social security - you know that 6.25% into the savings rate.

I believe Bush called them - worthless IOUs-that have been spent.

Right about that time is when the Asians stopped buying our debt.

Funny how that works, huh?

 

[Guest]

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Mike, you miss the point. We save, we prosper but, we must end up paying for those that do not even bother to put away $5 from a weekly paycheck. They will depend on us in the future. Sorry but I am not really into the European way of supporting those that so not bother to think or want to considr others. Sorry, you are really wrong