K0nKuzh0n's Account Talk

[k0nkuzh0n]

I had been doing something similar a month or so ago - when using my last IFT, I made sure to leave at least a percent in each of the stock funds as well as F. I didn't think to use the L funds though. That's a good idea. One day, I literally had 1.01% in a fund, and was able to up it .99%. With your method, you could potentially move up to 7.92% into stocks and lifecycle funds on any given day. It's not illegal at all, actually.

One thing I learned, though, is you can only do it every other day. If tsp.gov shows that I have 1.1% in the S fund today, and I put in an IFT to make it 2%, the next day I can't add anymore because the rule is that it has to be a <1% transaction. Make sense? I think I stopped at 6 IFTs that month. I did update the auto tracker. You should too - will show everyone just how much we can still play with our money after the IFT limits.

Your right, you can only do it only every other day because it does the transfer after the price adjustment, so then you need to wait for the percentages to be bairly off what you set them at to be <1% (like you said).

The illegal part is that when the percentages were at 2.01%, I put in an IFT to make them 3%, AFTER THE DEADLINE. At the close, funds had gone down quite a bit, causing the percentages to drop below 2%, to more like 1.97%. The transfer was not done at the close since I was after the deadline... the transfer was done at the close of the NEXT day. I did not try it, but I'm going to guess if I was to cancel the IFT, and attempt to put the exact same percentages, it would tell me I can't because its no longer <1%. That is what makes it technically illegal, because I could not cancel it and re-enter it, but since I put the request in prior to the new allocation percentages being updated, the IFT still went through. Follow?

The key is the IFT was entered AFTER the deadline, but BEFORE the allocation being updated for the new closing prices; and the fact that the percentage flipped from just above a whole number, to just below (or vice versa).

 

[uscfanhawaii]

I LIKE it!!
Because what this also means is that you can wait till the end of the day (or just before the end of the day?) to decide if you want to make the IFT. :nuts: Something we are not normally able to do, but wish we COULD (that's another thread that nsurf9 is working on!).
Of course, the only drawback is that these are really small IFTs. I was trying them a while back, and keeping track of the 'what if I didn't make the IFT' scenarios. It was a lot of effort with very little return.

 

[bmneveu]

I LIKE it!!
Because what this also means is that you can wait till the end of the day (or just before the end of the day?) to decide if you want to make the IFT. :nuts: Something we are not normally able to do, but wish we COULD (that's another thread that nsurf9 is working on!).
Of course, the only drawback is that these are really small IFTs. I was trying them a while back, and keeping track of the 'what if I didn't make the IFT' scenarios. It was a lot of effort with very little return.

Are you saying that I could move up to .99% into each fund near COB and get the prices of that day's close? This is a very nice tool if true!

 

[Scout333]

Squalebear is the less than 1% Guru. Check his information out under Member's Account Talk. Second option down. <1% IFT Option (read only)

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

Squalebear is the less than 1% Guru. Check his information out under Member's Account Talk. Second option down. <1% IFT Option (read only)

I skimmed through his thread but I don't see anything about the two topics I discussed, 1- using the L funds also, and 2- Using the deadline to your advantage to make 'illegal' IFTs

 

[Scout333]

I skimmed through his thread but I don't see anything about the two topics I discussed, 1- using the L funds also, and 2- Using the deadline to your advantage to make 'illegal' IFTs

I believe using the L funds has been tested here and you can use the < 1% IFTs for the L Funds as well. Not sure about the after the deadline IFTs you mentioned?? Can you explain? You can also use your payroll allocation i.e. biweekly contributions to spread between all of the funds to give you a small amount in each fund so you can round up to more funds.

 

[uscfanhawaii]

Are you saying that I could move up to .99% into each fund near COB and get the prices of that day's close? This is a very nice tool if true!

Well, in a word...NO.
The price would be COB the next day, since you 'missed' the deadline. (in this case, waited for the deadline to pass)
But what it apparently allows (if I read KK's post correctly) is waiting to COB when you can see if the price went up or down, and then lock in the <1% IFT. So...say your holding is 1.01% C, you can put in your <1% by the deadline and get 2% at the close...OR, you can wait till near the close and if the price goes down so that you would have say 0.97%, you can still put in the IFT to 2% instead of only 1% that it would normally allow. If it goes down again tomorrow, even better. You still keep the IFT to 2%, instead of only going to 1%. So even if it dropped to 0.1%, your <1% IFT would go to 2%, an increase of 1.9%. Of course, what happens on the second day is anyone's guess, so again, I am not sure this is any real big advantage. It is interesting as a way to 'stay in the game' when you are out of IFTs.

Am I right, K0nKuzh0n?! :blink:

 

[nasa1974]

When Squalebear and myself worked on the <1% move we didn't use the L funds because the investment funds (G, F, C, S & I) were a % of each depending on which L fund you got into. I can't speak for SB but I believe the L funds is what got him looking into the <1% move. You have to remember that doing a <1% move would be one of your IFT's if it was your first or second move for the month. After you have used your IFT's (2) for the month doing an<1% move does not count against you and it is not illegal. Back in 2009 I tested the <1% move on my real account for a couple of months, G, F, C, S & I funds but not the L funds, and didn't get a nasty gram from FRTIB. The <1% Thread was reduced from a few 100 posts down to the most important ones. Read it over and it may explain most of your questions.

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

Well, in a word...NO.
The price would be COB the next day, since you 'missed' the deadline. (in this case, waited for the deadline to pass)
But what it apparently allows (if I read KK's post correctly) is waiting to COB when you can see if the price went up or down, and then lock in the <1% IFT. So...say your holding is 1.01% C, you can put in your <1% by the deadline and get 2% at the close...OR, you can wait till near the close and if the price goes down so that you would have say 0.97%, you can still put in the IFT to 2% instead of only 1% that it would normally allow. If it goes down again tomorrow, even better. You still keep the IFT to 2%, instead of only going to 1%. So even if it dropped to 0.1%, your <1% IFT would go to 2%, an increase of 1.9%. Of course, what happens on the second day is anyone's guess, so again, I am not sure this is any real big advantage. It is interesting as a way to 'stay in the game' when you are out of IFTs.

Am I right, K0nKuzh0n?! :blink:

you are exactly correct! There is no share price advantage, its just a matter of getting 'grandfathered in' when percentages flip from one side of a whole number to the next.



Scout333 and nasa1974...

I wasn't asking any questions. I was reporting on behavior that I noticed, and was apparently outside of what squalebear covered.
The ideas that I covered only make sense when you are out of IFTs and you want to increase your equity exposure.

The only time I'd expect to gain from this is during long rallies, or reversals, but you are without IFTs and not in equities.

I suggest going back to post #56 (its not that far back!) and reading from there.
http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/members-account-talk/9835-k0nkuzh0ns-account-talk-2.html#post366156

but the major points, given what I said above, are:
1. the L Funds help increase equity exposure faster
2. Timing of <1% IFTs MAY MATTER.

Per the rules of IFTs, I did an illegal IFT. I was out of IFTs for the month, and I successfully changed a non-G-fund-fund from 1.97% to 3%.
Do the math, that is GREATER THAN 1%.

You could essentially move ~5-6% (C,S,I, and 4 L funds) into equities every other day. Like I said earlier, in extended rallies, that is partial gains you would miss out on staying in the G. Or if the markets are falling and you are expecting a rally at some point before the end of the month, you can DCA (Which Squalebear covered).

Of course if you are expecting an extended sell off, I'm not quite sure why you would want to leave the G/F fund.

Note that Squalebear mentions that you can do a <1% IFT to keep allocations the same when they are at whole numbers... I've seen behavior that actually disproves that claim. I've gotten a distinct popup when I go to submit the IFT that the allocations I am requesting are identical to the current allocations and it will not let me proceed.

 

[Talan150]

You guys are making my head spin

 

[Sensei]

1. the L Funds help increase equity exposure faster

...

Of course if you are expecting an extended sell off, I'm not quite sure why you would want to leave the G/F fund.

With regards to the top line, here are the current approximate stock allocations for the L funds:
L inc: 20%
L2020: 55%
L2030: 69%
L2040: 79%
L2050: 88%

Pretty good stock exposure, especially in L2030-50. If you had $100K in your account, you could probably move $3-5K a day from G into stocks by utilizing this method.

With regards to your latter statement, buying bit by bit on the way down is not a bad strategy at all, in my opinion. This is a fun and intriguing topic. I'm just afraid that the more we expose it, eventually someone from the TSP board will get a burr under their saddle and try to do away with it.

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

With regards to the top line, here are the current approximate stock allocations for the L funds:
L inc: 20%
L2020: 55%
L2030: 69%
L2040: 79%
L2050: 88%

Pretty good stock exposure, especially in L2030-50. If you had $100K in your account, you could probably move $3-5K a day from G into stocks by utilizing this method.

With regards to your latter statement, buying bit by bit on the way down is not a bad strategy at all, in my opinion. This is a fun and intriguing topic. I'm just afraid that the more we expose it, eventually someone from the TSP board will get a burr under their saddle and try to do away with it.

Thanks for the percentages! Its higher than I thought. I'd call it about 3% total, so we can move 6% at once..That's pretty good if you ask me.

The good thing about the whole down/up trend and DCA, is if the market is falling, you aren't really buying much more than you already had, because your allocations will slip slightly below a whole number, so all you can do is round it back up to that SAME whole number. Where as, if the market is going up, the allocation will change to just above a whole number and we can round up to the NEXT whole number. So if the market goes UP, we can move about 6% more in, if it goes down, its less than 1%.

I plan to do it every day I can (Which is probably every other day), regardless of whether the market goes up or now.

Another thing I noticed is you can't put in an IFT if the allocations are exactly whole numbers in attempt to stay at those whole numbers and not have to wait a day, BUT what you can do is sacrifice 1% from one of the other funds (Like F, or L Income) to the G fund, then keep all the other funds the same. This way you don't have to wait every other day when the market goes down... Only on the way up! But of course you have to be able to predict whether the markets will be up or down for that day prior to the deadline

 

[Khotso]

You guys are making my head spin

Ditto -- they're making me feel like I've got a Konkuzhon!

 

[Talan150]

OK I think i get it...scary...but i have a question.
Wouldn't leaving 1% in the stock (heavy) funds during pull backs negate any profit from adding <1% to the fund during uptrends? I guess a better way to put it is ... Has anyone ran the numbers to see if this actually is profitable?

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

OK I think i get it...scary...but i have a question.
Wouldn't leaving 1% in the stock (heavy) funds during pull backs negate any profit from adding <1% to the fund during uptrends? I guess a better way to put it is ... Has anyone ran the numbers to see if this actually is profitable?

There is all kindas of research on DCA (Dollar cost averaging) available on the web, not specific to TSP. It would cover the same principles.

Remember, the goal is to beat the G fund. Or to keep one busy until the end of the month :nuts:

 

[uscfanhawaii]

Remember, the goal is to beat the G fund. Or to keep one busy until the end of the month :nuts:

Yeah....with heavy emphasis on the latter! It DOES keep you in the game when you are out of wishes for the month

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

So here is a noob question. Over the past month I have noticed some threads under the "latest posts" section with an asterix (*) in front of the name. I assume these are threads in the political forum. When I click to view them, it says I don't have permission to view them. How do I go about getting permission? I'm not one to debate politics, but some of them (read: Romney's tax returns :laugh seemed like they could be informative!

 

[nnuut]

So here is a noob question. Over the past month I have noticed some threads under the "latest posts" section with an asterix (*) in front of the name. I assume these are threads in the political forum. When I click to view them, it says I don't have permission to view them. How do I go about getting permission? I'm not one to debate politics, but some of them (read: Romney's tax returns :laugh seemed like they could be informative!

Send a PM to TSPTALK and he will help you out, or in!:toung:

 

[PessOptimist]

So here is a noob question. Over the past month I have noticed some threads under the "latest posts" section with an asterix (*) in front of the name. I assume these are threads in the political forum. When I click to view them, it says I don't have permission to view them. How do I go about getting permission? I'm not one to debate politics, but some of them (read: Romney's tax returns :laugh seemed like they could be informative!

nnuut's reply was right on. Informative? Well sure in a way. Opinionated? Definitely. But, that's what it is for. Expect lots of truthiness.:cheesy:

PO

 

[k0nkuzh0n]

I recently made an IFT, and when I went to submit it on the autotracker, it said I was already 100% in the fund (Fund X) I was trying to go into, even tho I had put in a IFT ~2 weeks ago that took me to a different fund (Fund Y). That IFT doesn't show in my records at all, but when I look at the daily returns prior to my most recent IFT ( into Fund X), they match the fund I was supposed to be in (Fund Y) and not the fund it said I was in (Fund X).

Anyone see anything like that?