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Interfund Transfer 10/27 for 10/28/05
- Thread starter tsptalk
- Start date
smine
Member
imported post
On the subject Tom wrote about with timing and market closure hours: I encourage everyone to write this board often to explain the concept of we make more TSP makes more! They're in Washington, of course. The address is with this link. Tell them; write them.
"The Board. The Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board is an independent Government agency. The five members of the Board and the Executive Director are required by law to manage the TSP prudently and solely in the interest of the participants and their beneficiaries."
On the subject Tom wrote about with timing and market closure hours: I encourage everyone to write this board often to explain the concept of we make more TSP makes more! They're in Washington, of course. The address is with this link. Tell them; write them.
"The Board. The Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board is an independent Government agency. The five members of the Board and the Executive Director are required by law to manage the TSP prudently and solely in the interest of the participants and their beneficiaries."
grandma
Well-known member
imported post
:#I have a problem: Thursday I went from 70 to 50% S, and the shares were reduced to 2378.1822. Friday 28th, I made changes only to my G & F. But the TSPconfirmationnow (Sat@ 0200)tells me my S shares have droppedby a count of 18...AND worse than that,instead of the balance increasing by the .23 gain, it decreased by nearly $300.
I will call them Monday unless one of you can show me where my understanding of thisreport has gone astray. If I had 50% yesterday I should still have50% today since I made no changes;and with a 23 cent increase in the cost/share, there should be an increase in balance rather than the decrease showing, right??? :X
:x :i I am worried now I have been too casual in my checking of these nightly reports -
tyia for your assists
:#I have a problem: Thursday I went from 70 to 50% S, and the shares were reduced to 2378.1822. Friday 28th, I made changes only to my G & F. But the TSPconfirmationnow (Sat@ 0200)tells me my S shares have droppedby a count of 18...AND worse than that,instead of the balance increasing by the .23 gain, it decreased by nearly $300.
I will call them Monday unless one of you can show me where my understanding of thisreport has gone astray. If I had 50% yesterday I should still have50% today since I made no changes;and with a 23 cent increase in the cost/share, there should be an increase in balance rather than the decrease showing, right??? :X
:x :i I am worried now I have been too casual in my checking of these nightly reports -tyia for your assists
mlk_man
Banned
imported post
Grandma, the S fund had a bigger loss on Thursday than it gained on Friday. You also had more shares on Thursday than you did on Friday. The only wayyou wouldhave come out ahead was to of bought more shares on Thursday when it dropped big and then sold them on Friday when it gained.
ANother way to look at it, the S fund dropped 1.9% on Thursday and 70% of your balance was in it. THis means you lost 1.33% of your balance. ON Friday the S fund gained 1.53% but you only had 50% of your balance in it so you gained .77% of your balance. This results in a loss of about .76% of your balance from Wed. close.
Basically, on Fridayyou onlygained back about half of what you lost on Thursday by decreasing your share percentage.
Hope this helps and sorry you lost money.
Now if they are saying you lost money from Thursday close to Friday close, then something is wrong.
M_M
Grandma, the S fund had a bigger loss on Thursday than it gained on Friday. You also had more shares on Thursday than you did on Friday. The only wayyou wouldhave come out ahead was to of bought more shares on Thursday when it dropped big and then sold them on Friday when it gained.
ANother way to look at it, the S fund dropped 1.9% on Thursday and 70% of your balance was in it. THis means you lost 1.33% of your balance. ON Friday the S fund gained 1.53% but you only had 50% of your balance in it so you gained .77% of your balance. This results in a loss of about .76% of your balance from Wed. close.
Basically, on Fridayyou onlygained back about half of what you lost on Thursday by decreasing your share percentage.
Hope this helps and sorry you lost money.
Now if they are saying you lost money from Thursday close to Friday close, then something is wrong.
M_M
grandma
Well-known member
imported post
Okay Mlk: Friday morning @0100 I have 2378 shares $35672 in S
I did not make any move in S during this time span, still 50%
Saturday morning @ 0100 I have 2360 shares $35945 in S
I don't mean toadvertise my poverty in tsp, but I need to show the numbers. I am `number clueless'so am not able to use ratios, etc, & understand which represents what.
So - ?? What do you think.......??? Thanx for the assisting !!
Okay Mlk: Friday morning @0100 I have 2378 shares $35672 in S
I did not make any move in S during this time span, still 50%
Saturday morning @ 0100 I have 2360 shares $35945 in S
I don't mean toadvertise my poverty in tsp, but I need to show the numbers. I am `number clueless'so am not able to use ratios, etc, & understand which represents what.
So - ?? What do you think.......??? Thanx for the assisting !!
vectorman
Active member
imported post
grandma wrote:
grandma wrote:
grandma I checked the numbers and 2360 S shares are correct. Even though you made more money at the close of Friday, when you request a new IFT ( inter-fund transfer ) TSP combines the individual fund totals at the COB, then divides the total by the new requested IFT. Whenever you request an IFT, you are basically selling, then buying shares at theCOB price for that day. Look at your IFT confirmation, itshows you this under the title 'before' and 'after'. When the sums for the S, C and F were combined forthe total, then divided into your new 50% S and G request, the new total for the 50% S was buying S shares at the higher price of 15.23 andgiving you a new share total that ended up being18 less than what you had. What you ended up doing was taking some of your profit from the S fund, then placing it in the G fund. I will send you a PM with the numbers, hope this helps.Okay Mlk: Friday morning @0100 I have 2378 shares $35672 in S
I did not make any move in S during this time span, still 50%
Saturday morning @ 0100 I have 2360 shares $35945 in S
I don't mean toadvertise my poverty in tsp, but I need to show the numbers. I am `number clueless'so am not able to use ratios, etc, & understand which represents what.
So - ?? What do you think.......??? Thanx for the assisting !!
mlk_man
Banned
imported post
Thanks vectorman. Does this make since grandma? When you make an IFT, you can't just say "put my 50% F into the G fund". You actually have to "sell" all your shares and then "buy" back whatever yourallocation request was, like vectorman said.
Let's say Thurs. you went 50% F and 50% S and you have $10,000. That would put $5000 in the F fund and $5000 in the S fund. Then let's say Friday the F fund lost 1% and the S fund gained 5%. You would then have $4950 in the F fund and $5250 in the S fund. You then request an IFT to go 50% G and 50% S. That means half your balance goes to G and the other half to S. Your balance is $4950 + $5250 = $10200 so $5100 goes to G and $5100 goes to S fund. You'll lhave fewer shares of S because you bought them back at a higher price, but your over balance will be up.
I don't even pay attention to how many shares I have. I just make sure my balance goes up.
You should call them anyway because I'm curious to hear how they would explain it other than to say "I'm sorry ma'am but I'm sure our computers are correct and if didn't make so many moves you wouldn't have to worry about it as much". :shock:
Thanks vectorman. Does this make since grandma? When you make an IFT, you can't just say "put my 50% F into the G fund". You actually have to "sell" all your shares and then "buy" back whatever yourallocation request was, like vectorman said.
Let's say Thurs. you went 50% F and 50% S and you have $10,000. That would put $5000 in the F fund and $5000 in the S fund. Then let's say Friday the F fund lost 1% and the S fund gained 5%. You would then have $4950 in the F fund and $5250 in the S fund. You then request an IFT to go 50% G and 50% S. That means half your balance goes to G and the other half to S. Your balance is $4950 + $5250 = $10200 so $5100 goes to G and $5100 goes to S fund. You'll lhave fewer shares of S because you bought them back at a higher price, but your over balance will be up.
I don't even pay attention to how many shares I have. I just make sure my balance goes up.
You should call them anyway because I'm curious to hear how they would explain it other than to say "I'm sorry ma'am but I'm sure our computers are correct and if didn't make so many moves you wouldn't have to worry about it as much". :shock:
G
Greg
Guest
imported post
tsptalk wrote:
tsptalk wrote:
I'm game too. Someone posted that TSP wrote them saying they needed 2 hours to determine the funds trades. Fine, then let them make the deadline at 2 PM.
imported post
It will be interesting to see how the competitive bidding process for F, C, S, and I plays out. If Barclays loses and a domestic firm wins, you folks may have more leverageto push for alater deadline. I don't recommend frequest trading but Iwould like for TSP to beup to date. Both of the companies holding my IRAfunds have the 4PM eastern deadline.
It will be interesting to see how the competitive bidding process for F, C, S, and I plays out. If Barclays loses and a domestic firm wins, you folks may have more leverageto push for alater deadline. I don't recommend frequest trading but Iwould like for TSP to beup to date. Both of the companies holding my IRAfunds have the 4PM eastern deadline.
Spaf
Honorary Hall of Fame Member
imported post
IFT pro and con
The concept of buying and holding for long periods of time crashed with the market in 2000. Some folks have gotten completely out of investing. Others are looking for new ways to invest and or trade. Some investors carefully balance their portfolio using the buy and hold strategy and periodically change holdings, more so than before the crash.
Others have moved to the world of trading, which there are several types: Day traders never hold a position in a security overnight, and they share the higher risks. There is also what is called swing trading. Swing traders hold positions a bit longer, maybe days, maybe weeks. The third category is position trading. Position trading involves transfering funds in and out of positions and holding for a few weeks, month or even a year or more. Position traders look on trends, the economy, the marketplace, and the individual stocks.
tsptalk said: "I'm sure they'll just tell us that TSP wasn't meant to trade."
Well then TSP doesn't understand. Buy and hold "autopilot"crashed in 2000. Just about everone is a trader now, in one form or another! The definition of trading is now quite large, even for those that have brokers or fund managers. Yes, even Mrs. Stewart!
Could the 12:00 ET deadline for TSP transfers be improved for participants? Yes, I think it can be better! Generally by noon, the market has just settled down (sometimes). A 2:00 PM ET deadline would be better!
The early deadline could be unnecessary. The arguement for it doesn't seem to be valid. If it is practical to extend it to 2:00 PM ET. It should be! Is TSP against it, if so, we need a valid reason.
My 2 cents Spaf
IFT pro and con
The concept of buying and holding for long periods of time crashed with the market in 2000. Some folks have gotten completely out of investing. Others are looking for new ways to invest and or trade. Some investors carefully balance their portfolio using the buy and hold strategy and periodically change holdings, more so than before the crash.
Others have moved to the world of trading, which there are several types: Day traders never hold a position in a security overnight, and they share the higher risks. There is also what is called swing trading. Swing traders hold positions a bit longer, maybe days, maybe weeks. The third category is position trading. Position trading involves transfering funds in and out of positions and holding for a few weeks, month or even a year or more. Position traders look on trends, the economy, the marketplace, and the individual stocks.
tsptalk said: "I'm sure they'll just tell us that TSP wasn't meant to trade."
Well then TSP doesn't understand. Buy and hold "autopilot"crashed in 2000. Just about everone is a trader now, in one form or another! The definition of trading is now quite large, even for those that have brokers or fund managers. Yes, even Mrs. Stewart!
Could the 12:00 ET deadline for TSP transfers be improved for participants? Yes, I think it can be better! Generally by noon, the market has just settled down (sometimes). A 2:00 PM ET deadline would be better!
The early deadline could be unnecessary. The arguement for it doesn't seem to be valid. If it is practical to extend it to 2:00 PM ET. It should be! Is TSP against it, if so, we need a valid reason.
My 2 cents
SpafBuffetology
New member
imported post
TSP Admin,
Can you explain to me the difference between interfund and allocation changes. I am new at this game, and so far I have been doing straight allocation changes with no interfund transfers. Am I loosing out?Are you doing just interfund transfers and no allocation changes? and if you are do you set one or the other (allocation or interfund) to 0% while you play the other? :?
TSP Admin,
Can you explain to me the difference between interfund and allocation changes. I am new at this game, and so far I have been doing straight allocation changes with no interfund transfers. Am I loosing out?Are you doing just interfund transfers and no allocation changes? and if you are do you set one or the other (allocation or interfund) to 0% while you play the other? :?
biggdog1
Member
imported post
B, Biggdog here. Your allocations are how your payroll deduction is put in your TSP account (ie 100% S-Fund or whichever fund you designate). IFT's however can be done daily or whenever you see fit to accomodate the markets. IFT's will not change your payroll allocation. As you can see by checking this board, several members do many IFT's (myself included) and some let their money set for the ride. Hope this helps.
BIGGDOG
B, Biggdog here. Your allocations are how your payroll deduction is put in your TSP account (ie 100% S-Fund or whichever fund you designate). IFT's however can be done daily or whenever you see fit to accomodate the markets. IFT's will not change your payroll allocation. As you can see by checking this board, several members do many IFT's (myself included) and some let their money set for the ride. Hope this helps.
BIGGDOG
Last edited:
imported post
tsptalk wrote:
When I madethis transfer about an hour before the deadline on 10/27, the Dow was down about 20+ points. After the deadline - that afternoon, the Dow closed down 115. So I smelled trouble but was unable to react quickly enough because of the deadline. Once the Dow was down heavy I immediately realized this move was going to backfire in the short term as the indicators became very oversold.
Right now (Monday) they are on the overbought side again.
Thanks,
Tom
tsptalk wrote:
A little explanation for the those who may not have seen the logic orresults of this transaction. (I had a few emails about why I did this).
When I madethis transfer about an hour before the deadline on 10/27, the Dow was down about 20+ points. After the deadline - that afternoon, the Dow closed down 115. So I smelled trouble but was unable to react quickly enough because of the deadline. Once the Dow was down heavy I immediately realized this move was going to backfire in the short term as the indicators became very oversold.
Right now (Monday) they are on the overbought side again.
Thanks,
Tom
grandma
Well-known member
imported post
mlk_man wrote:
mlk_man wrote:
Vectorman & Mlk_man - thank you both for your responses. I got pulled away from the computer and am just now getting back to it. I will study what you've both said. I have not called tsp - yet. based on some mis-interpretations I have made some bad moves - hopefully I will get straightened out today !!!:^ thank you again -
grandma
Well-known member
imported post
Spaf wrote:
Spaf wrote:
We could argue that if the deadline were pushed back to 2pm, that we might be more comfortable with where we are and Not make an ift afterall. ??IFT pro and con
tsptalk said: "I'm sure they'll just tell us that TSP wasn't meant to trade."
Could the 12:00 ET deadline for TSP transfers be improved for participants? Yes, I think it can be better! Generally by noon, the market has just settled down (sometimes). A 2:00 PM ET deadline would be better!
The early deadline could be unnecessary. The arguement for it doesn't seem to be valid. If it is practical to extend it to 2:00 PM ET. It should be! Is TSP against it, if so, we need a valid reason.
My 2 cents
