Corn and Ethanol.

[James48843]

CNG= Fossil fuel. Comes out of WELLS, drilled in places like under the ocean. Eventually, we'll run out of CNG (although it will be far later than when oil gets really, really expensive).

Yes, there is a place for CNG in the mix, but there are places for other fuels as well.

Ethanol IS the fuel of the future:

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[alevin]

I'd buy that, but there'd still need to be massive infrastructure buildout-density of non-residential-filling stations would have to increase on cross-country routes out west in low population density areas where there can be 100 miles between small communities-or more. For the people travelling between towns. Kinda like the old Pony Express/stage stops-which were roughly 20 miles apart.

 

[KevinD]

IMO our only way out is CNG, and filling our converted cars right off a compressor-ed second metered line off the main that comes in for our gas heat.

+1 to CNG.

 

[crws]

Have you watched Food, Inc. ?
Corn based ethanol won't make it. Neither will any soybean based fuel either, cuz Monsanto basically owns the patent on the genetic strain of soybean (and corn most likely) used throughout the US.
If you want to see an amazing use of raw material, check how many products are made with raw cotton. Phenomenal!
Of course, will the cotton industry lobby to grow the ultimate plant of industrial versatility? Hemp?

IMO our only way out is CNG, and filling our converted cars right off a compressor-ed second metered line off the main that comes in for our gas heat.
There will need to be separate accounting for hiway taxes and the like.
Perhaps...in our kid's lifetimes...

 

[nnuut]

The MAN has spoken!!!
Hey James are you ever going to get that truck to haul ethanol?

 

[James48843]

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[James48843]

Flex-Fuel car owners reaping the benefit of cheaper fuel

April 15, 10:35 PM ·
James Pratt -
Detroit Alternative Energy Examiner


While gasoline prices this spring continue to climb towards $3 a gallon, owners of flex-fuel cars are beginning to take advantage of something better. They are discovering cheaper E85 flex-fuel.

Made from 85 percent ethanol and just 15 percent gasoline, the fuel known as E85 has become the better bargain for thousands of Michigan motorists looking to fill up. Those are the motorists who own the many flex-fuel capable vehicles now driving on area roads.

General Motors, Ford and Chrysler have delivered millions of flex-fuel cars over the last decade, but until now, only a small percentage of owners bought flex-fuel. In prior years, the cost of flex-fuel was usually near or above the price of gasoline, so it didn’t make economic sense to buy E85 from a strictly dollars and cents perspective.

The economics changed about two months ago, when the good news of last year’s bumper corn crop collided with increased petroleum demand. Gasoline prices began to rise, and ethanol prices began to fall.

The result?

It’s now far cheaper to fill up on E85. And flex-fuel car owners are loving it.

This week, gasoline prices averaged $2.87 a gallon in Michigan, while E85’s average pump price was just $2.30, according to the website http://e85prices.com. It's now a better deal to use E85.

Today, at a Shell Station on South Waverly Road in Lansing, a young woman in a 2007 Chevrolet Impala stopped to fill with E85 for the very first time.

“I didn’t even think about it until today, when I saw the sign,” the unidentified woman said. “I’ve had this car for a year, and have never tried it before, until today.”

She topped off her blue Impala with E85 at just $2.29 a gallon.


“We’ll see how it works out,” she said.

The Lansing area woman is not alone in not using E85 before. Many owners of flex-fuel cars haven’t tried ethanol, mostly because either it was hard to find, or because the price didn’t make economic sense. Until now, that is.


More:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...ar-owners-reaping-the-benefit-of-cheaper-fuel

 

[James48843]

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[Buster]

But if they need a ride to the hospital, they ask their Mennonite neighbors for a ride in their Suburbans...

Yeah, and when the Mennonites need a portable fireplace looking space heater, the Amish are right on it...

 

[James48843]

Protec expands E85 in southern states

By Luke Geiver

Posted March 1, 2010

The funding for E85 infrastructure is reaching further south, this time creating 30 new fueling stations spread out through Florida, Georgia and Alabama. Protec Fuel LLC, a Florida-based company specializing in ethanol programs, recently received funding from the U.S. DOE and announced in February that 18 of the 30 awarded sites are already finished or currently under construction. Partnering with Urbieta Oil, the Renewable Fuels Association, the U.S. Clean Cities Coalitions, and General Motors, Protec says its main goal is to get the E85 infrastructure into the highest use areas.

“Just because there are a lot of flex fuel vehicles in one area, doesn’t mean we will put a blending facility there,” said Todd Garner, managing partner for Protec. “We still have to complete a survey and other research to determine what blending facilities will work in specific locations.” Garner says they start with determining the number of flex fuel vehicles around each proposed site, including the presence of corporate fleets, military vehicles, and the distance between the vehicles and the site. After obtaining this information, Protec believes they can offer a more feasible grant when applying for funding and Garner adds, “Our success rate at our stations average more gallons of E85 than any other stations in the nation.”

More: http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=6399

 

[SkyPilot]

More than 80% of Amish households in one Ohio community now have solar panels.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2007/06/amish-are-surprise-embracers-of-solar.html

But if they need a ride to the hospital, they ask their Mennonite neighbors for a ride in their Suburbans...

 

[SkyPilot]

While the technology to make ethanol from sugar beets exists, the pricing still doesn't make sense. It costs around $45 a ton for sugar beets, which in turn makes ethanol about $2 a gallon produced from sugar beets, vs. $1.45 from corn.

If there is technology to become more efficient, and it becomes cost competitive, I'm sure we'll see some sugar beet ethanol out there commercially.

Quote from same article,,,

According to Gustafson, researchers are currently working to complete a feasibility study for the construction of a 20 MMgy facility that would produce 26.5 gallons of ethanol per ton of sugar beet feedstock. “Our initial statistics show that we have a break-even production cost of ethanol at $1.48 – that is assuming the sugar beets are priced at about $42 per ton,” he said. In addition to producing ethanol, the facility would also produce livestock feed and potash fertilizer coproducts.

 

[alevin]

Now there's an idea I can support too-good for them.

 

[James48843]

More than 80% of Amish households in one Ohio community now have solar panels.

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2007/06/amish-are-surprise-embracers-of-solar.html

 

[James48843]

Lets force everyone to be Amish. Better for the environment and less subsidies.

Now THERE's an idea I can support.

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[Show-me]

While the technology to make ethanol from sugar beets exists, the pricing still doesn't make sense. It costs around $45 a ton for sugar beets, which in turn makes ethanol about $2 a gallon produced from sugar beets, vs. $1.45 from corn.

If there is technology to become more efficient, and it becomes cost competitive, I'm sure we'll see some sugar beet ethanol out there commercially.

Sounds like they need a bigger taxpayer subsidy to make it more competitive.

 

[James48843]

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=5997

NDSU spearheads sugar beet-to-ethanol project

By Erin Voegele


Report posted Sept. 23, 2009, 6:15 p.m. CST

Attendees at North Dakota State University’s bioenergy event Sept. 22, titled “Northern Plains Bioeconomy: What Makes Sense?” were given the opportunity to learn about a project spearheaded by NDSU that seeks to establish sugar beet ethanol production facilities within the state.

According to Cole Gustafson, a professor in NDSU’s Department of Agribusiness and Applied Economics, the primary goal of the project is to develop a new industry in North Dakota that will help build local economies. “We are trying to develop an industry…in North Dakota that is locally owned and provides economic opportunities to the region,” he said.

Gustafson said there are a variety of reasons why sugar beet ethanol production makes sense. Unlike many cellulosic technologies, he said sugar ethanol production is a well-established process and considerable quantities of sugarcane-based and sugar beet-based ethanol are currently produced in South America and Europe. “It’s a proven technology,” Gustafson said. “It’s not exploratory.”

When compared to corn ethanol, Gustafson said sugar-based ethanol yields nearly twice the amount of ethanol per acre of production. It also offers a number of advantages from a climate change perspective, which results in lower life cycle carbon emissions. For example, sugar beet cultivation requires less nitrogen input, requires less water, and Gustafson said NDSU’s production process is expected to reduce feedstock transportation needs.

While the technology to make ethanol from sugar beets exists, the pricing still doesn't make sense. It costs around $45 a ton for sugar beets, which in turn makes ethanol about $2 a gallon produced from sugar beets, vs. $1.45 from corn.

If there is technology to become more efficient, and it becomes cost competitive, I'm sure we'll see some sugar beet ethanol out there commercially.

 

[Show-me]

Here's the deal. When gasoline is at $5 a gallon and they can sell Ethanol for $4 a gallon or less without tax credits and subsidies. Then and only then will I be a believer in ethanol. I still do not like using food for fuel.

 

[Show-me]

Two words that strike home "corn monoculture".

We are back to free range grazing and timber. No feed lot operation here, we feed just enough corn to keep the cattle tame. More like a sweet treat snack.

trash, not food-and maintain a diversity of food crops within a region-no corn monoculture. the other little problem developing on the east side of the Midwest-is people converting prime farmland back to timberland (for carbon storage credits). :worried:

the east side of the midwest tallgrass prairie was always a naturally fluctuating boundary-trees invaded from the east, fires from the grasslands on the west side would beat the tree line back eastward regularly through natural fire cycles-reason why there used to be buffalo as far east as New York.

 

[SkyPilot]

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=5997

NDSU spearheads sugar beet-to-ethanol project

By Erin Voegele


Report posted Sept. 23, 2009, 6:15 p.m. CST

Attendees at North Dakota State University’s bioenergy event Sept. 22, titled “Northern Plains Bioeconomy: What Makes Sense?” were given the opportunity to learn about a project spearheaded by NDSU that seeks to establish sugar beet ethanol production facilities within the state.

According to Cole Gustafson, a professor in NDSU’s Department of Agribusiness and Applied Economics, the primary goal of the project is to develop a new industry in North Dakota that will help build local economies. “We are trying to develop an industry…in North Dakota that is locally owned and provides economic opportunities to the region,” he said.

Gustafson said there are a variety of reasons why sugar beet ethanol production makes sense. Unlike many cellulosic technologies, he said sugar ethanol production is a well-established process and considerable quantities of sugarcane-based and sugar beet-based ethanol are currently produced in South America and Europe. “It’s a proven technology,” Gustafson said. “It’s not exploratory.”

When compared to corn ethanol, Gustafson said sugar-based ethanol yields nearly twice the amount of ethanol per acre of production. It also offers a number of advantages from a climate change perspective, which results in lower life cycle carbon emissions. For example, sugar beet cultivation requires less nitrogen input, requires less water, and Gustafson said NDSU’s production process is expected to reduce feedstock transportation needs.