Christianity vs Islam

[fabijo]

Islam:

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of those nearest to Allah. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be of the righteous."

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?"

He said: "Even so. Allah createth what He willeth. When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!"

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?"

He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."

Christianity:

"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am."

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[fabijo]

Errr...someone who knows more about Islam can contradict me here. However, I heard one of the fundamental differences have to do with the crucifixion and the resurrection. From what I understand, under Islamic belief, God would not have let that happen and there was a substitution.

Quote from Koran, Surah 5:17

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary.

 

[wv-girl]

Amen !! Brother

There is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism; Having Faith and letting that Faith transform your life where we trust only in the Spirit of our Lord and Savior and strive to obey His Leading with a broken and yeilded spirit.

It honestly makes little difference what church we go to; as our journey is deeply personal and without the inward commitment and true longing to yeild ourselve to His Glory - all the outward acts are pretty meaningless.

I have been part of many denominations and have been more and more convinced that the trivial doctrines that give each it's distinction - are garbage and meaningless compared to the core doctrine of Christ and all He represents. He is the church.

He is the church.

Amen, Steady. I was at one time attending a church and was in prayer when GOD showed me how sad he was that he couldn't find his light in very many people. HE not only showed me the congregation that I was in but all around the world. There were other points of light but compared to the darkness in people it was very few. So please look inward to find your answers and do not rely solely on any written word. GOD put the truth in our hearts when we were baptised in HIS name. You might be suprised how much you know without ever having read it in the Bible(even tho you can find it there).

 

[Buster]

Amen !! Brother

There is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism; Having Faith and letting that Faith transform your life where we trust only in the Spirit of our Lord and Savior and strive to obey His Leading with a broken and yeilded spirit.

It honestly makes little difference what church we go to; as our journey is deeply personal and without the inward commitment and true longing to yeild ourselve to His Glory - all the outward acts are pretty meaningless.

I have been part of many denominations and have been more and more convinced that the trivial doctrines that give each it's distinction - are garbage and meaningless compared to the core doctrine of Christ and all He represents. He is the church.

Beautifully put..I couldn't have said it better

 

[Steadygain]

But, for more reasons than one, I now simply wish to be known as a Christian.

Amen !! Brother

There is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism; Having Faith and letting that Faith transform your life where we trust only in the Spirit of our Lord and Savior and strive to obey His Leading with a broken and yeilded spirit.

It honestly makes little difference what church we go to; as our journey is deeply personal and without the inward commitment and true longing to yeild ourselve to His Glory - all the outward acts are pretty meaningless.

I have been part of many denominations and have been more and more convinced that the trivial doctrines that give each it's distinction - are garbage and meaningless compared to the core doctrine of Christ and all He represents. He is the church.

 

[Rod]

Why sure, there were already accepted books throughout The Church prior to the Council of Trent. But, one of the Council's goals was to officially recognize and finalized those books into a canon- especially in light of the Reformation which was causing quite a stir. Isn't it quite ironic the Council session for the canon took place 2 months after Martin Luther died? Coincidence??? I think not.

For the record, I grew up Roman Catholic, then became a Roaming Catholic, then became a Protestant, then contemplated returning to the Roman Catholic Church. But, for more reasons than one, I now simply wish to be known as a Christian.

 

[FUTURESTRADER]

At least start with Constantine's Council of Nicaea, AD 325

"There seem to be a number of legends about the First Council of Nicaea (325AD) in circulation on the internet, presented as fact. Some people seem to think that the council, which was the first council of all the Bishops of the Christian Church, either invented the New Testament, or edited it to remove references to reincarnation (or whatever) or burned large numbers of heretical works, or whatever. These are in error. This page documents the problem and provides links to all the ancient source material in order to allow everyone to check the truth for themselves. "

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

 

[Steadygain]

Christians should remain open to reading/studying the original Biblical canon, and refuse to be brainwashed into thinking it is/was flawed simply because the Roman Catholic Church finalized it.

Especially, since it is our belief that the Holy Spirit was at work during the finalization of the Biblical canon.

Thanks Rod - I believe the Cannon was established in 367

But the point remains unchanged - in that we need to believe it was the Holy Spirit at work in the entire process. The Old Testament hugely magnifies the New Testament.

Again the Bible can only be understood in terms of it's underlying message and that is God's LOVE for us demonstated through Jesus Christ and if it does not point to Jesus and God's Grace and Glory and His Love actively working in our lives for others THEN IT COUNTS FOR NOTHING.

So no matter what the religion (Cath - Prot) if the Bible is not interpreted in light of the previous paragraph then the entire significance of God's Message to everyone is lost.

For the members who are not Christian (or have no belief in God) or somehow believe that your church uniquely qualifies you to have "a real walk with God" - I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING TO CRAM DOWN YOUR THROATS.... BUT TRUE CHRISTIANITY IS HONESTLY MEANT TO BE A VERY SIMPLE RELIGION BASED PURELY ON LOVING AND ACCEPTING ALL PEOPLE AND EXTENDING GOD'S LOVE TO EVERYONE.

 

[Rod]

I too struggle with which books of the Bible should or should not be there. The Catholic Church being the first Church had much to do with which books are in the Bible.

Yes, The Roman Catholic Church finanlized the Biblical canon at The Council of Trent in 1546.

As a Christian, one must conclude that the Holy Spirit's work in this matter was not "flawed".

Therefore, we must essentially, by faith, place our trust in the Roman Catholic Church's ability to set in stone, thee definitive Biblical canon for the Christian Church.

But, ever since, 33,000+ protestant denominations have been detracting certain books from the Biblical canon because they don't fall in line with their particular theologies.

Christians should remain open to reading/studying the original Biblical canon, and refuse to be brainwashed into thinking it is/was flawed simply because the Roman Catholic Church finalized it.

Especially, since it is our belief that the Holy Spirit was at work during the finalization of the Biblical canon.

If He wasn't at work, then we are still without a Biblical canon.

Bottom line- The books which belong in the Christian Bible have been established at the Council of Trent. So, are we going to rely upon and trust that The Church "got it right" with the Biblical canon, or are we going to detract from it as has been going on for centuries throughout the 33,000+ protestant denominations?

I'd much rather choose the former so I can settle the matter within my own soul, thus keeping myself from becoming "a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind" because of the doubts that would constantly arise. James 1:6.

 

[Show-me]

I hope no one gets offended by this discussion. I am against discussion politics and religion and I have been sucked in by the debate.

Here is one thing that comes to mind back in the day. Remember this game, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?

Now imagine it called Six Degrees of Jesus Christ.

 

[Show-me]

Let's go one branch farther. I knew a Viet. Vet that spent some studying Buddhism and made the claim that is was very possible that Jesus visited the East and influenced Buddhism or is Buddha.

Google "Jesus lost years visit Buddhist" and see the hits you get.

http://www.thezensite.com/non_Zen/Was_Jesus_Buddhist.html

 

[Buster]

It has been noted and claimed in many texts as well, that the Jew Altered and corrupted some of the books of the Bible, to suit them as in the case of Abraham and his sons, as to which one was offered to God for sacrifice..

http://www.answering-christianity.com/isaac_and_ishmael.htm


And you guys thought politics was a touchy subject...please keep in mind folks when discussing this topic, that beliefs run fundamentally deep..so be respectful.

 

[Silverbird]

Errr...someone who knows more about Islam can contradict me here. However, I heard one of the fundamental differences have to do with the crucifixion and the resurrection. From what I understand, under Islamic belief, God would not have let that happen and there was a substitution.

This is similar to the beliefs under the mystic Gnostic branch of Christianity. The Gnostic branch went out of favor under Constantine (it probably didn't help that they believed Mary Magdaline was the first Disciple). Christianity on the whole moved away from the Gnostic branch, and I believe it's going to be wellnigh impossible for Islam and Christianity to meet on the subject of Jesus with this difference in belief about the Crucifxion and the Resurrection, since that is now the basis of Christian belief. Since under Islamic belief Jesus is a Prophet, such substitution would be within the privledge of God to do, and there are many instances in the Bible of such subsitutions. However, a substitution or a rescue is not a sacrifice of the Son for our sins. Although understandable that God would not stand for such a humiliting sacrifice it looks like a bit of retributive trickery in comparison done by the Son of God if put against the mirror of Crucifixion and Resurrection.

Some of the Gnostic texts were discovered recently, not in good shape. Causing much concernation in Christian circles.

 

[Buster]

It is all about belief and faith. The story about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar is the one I like the most because I can relate it to the current events. Jews, Muslims, and Christians all have the same Father but they can not see past their noses or their own need to dominate the world with their beliefs.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_1/abraham.html

Excellent SM..I was raised Catholic and often pondered the truth if this story of Abraham and his sons and mistress and learned from being open minded that the Christians, Jews and Muslims have so much in common, it must make God very weary at all the conflict...but that's why we are mortal and lack the wisdom of the Divine..


But I thought this was a topic that needs to be discussed civilly because there is so much we misunderstand about these one almighty GOD based religions

 

[Steadygain]

First let me start with Christianity vs Islam gives the appearance that a person has to choose one against the other; that one is right and one is wrong; that it is a struggle or war between the two.

As with the RAPE SITUATION - I think you meant well but this could very much turn into a huge battle and cause a lot of deep friction and even create some wounds. So let's get that out of the way to begin with.

I do not pretend to be the authority on this subject but I can honestly say that the Spirit of Christ has flooded throughout my being and remained with me over the many years since I gave everything over to Him. The Bible is first and foremost the Living Word of God and can only be appreciated in terms of His Spirit working in your life and revealing the deeper truths. Dwelling on, and re-reading many passages brings out the substance of what God intended to be incorporated in your life and shape your beliefs.

The Bible can only be understood by reading and knowing the whole book. Again, I don't pretend to be any more equiped to know it better than anyone else but I have been through many Bible Studies over the years and have a very solid understanding of the entire book.

I have left many churchs because of what they have added to the Bible and expected me to proclaim teachings that diminish the Cross and supercede it with a doctrine of their making to give their chruch a special identity. I will not spit in God's Face.

The main drawback to this discussion is the fact that numerous Scriptures are used as weapons to attack various people or groups of people and I have heard many ministers over the years declare their hatred and total intollerance towards this group (gay) or that (women) by taking a few passages and distorting them to convince everyone that God hates them and we should all the more hate them and treat them indifferently.

HERE THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT IS KNOWING THE MESSAGE OF THE BIBLE - and not taking a few passages to foster our own prejudical views.

THE MESSAGE IS GOD IS A GOD OVER AND ABOVE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE and everything within the universe is wholly by His doing. We exist only because of Him. GOD CONSIDERS RELATIONSHIPS TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF OUR EXISTENCE AND MAKES HIS GRACE AVAILABLE TO ALL PEOPLE AND ALL THINGS. Jesus is the beginning and the end - He everything and He embodies God's Message of Love and Service to everyone and His sacrifice was for every injustice ever committed by anyone. SO THE MESSAGE IS TO LOVE ALL PEOPLE AND EXTEND THE GLORY AND GRACE OF GOD (IN YOUR LIFE) TO EVERYONE REGARDLESS OF GENDER, RACE, SEXUAL PREFERENCE, NATIONALITY, OR RELIGION. Any person led by God's Spirit would work towards this endeavor.

As for the Bible being the only "HOLY BOOK" - I respectfully disagree. The Cost of Discipleship by Bonhoffer (and many other books) have convinced me that thousands of other books have the potiential to exemptify God's Holy Spirit and bring it to life just as strongly.

For those interested in discovering the difference the best thing to do is research the everything about the Founders (Jesus Christ and Mohammad). One had many prophetices written about him hundreds of years before his birth - look at his life and how he lived it - and the way His Spirt changed people. Then look at the other - how he incorporated various religions to form his own; look at the motives behind his actions and see how he lived his life. SO TO A LARGE DEGREE IT IS NOT THE KORAN VS THE BIBLE; It is much more Jesus or Mohammad - and here I would encourage anyone to be as open as possible to allowing God Himself to guide you into knowing which one most represents His Spirit and how that Spirit should be lived out in us and be the basis of our RELATIONSHIPS. Which one represents God's Love - God's Glory - and God's Grace wholly and completely. iF YOU FIND THE ANSWER AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD LIVES IN YOU AND YOU LEARN HOW TO MAKE HIS GLORY KNOWN AND DEMONSTRATE HIS LOVE - THEN REACH OUT TO OTHERS IN THAT SPIRIT AND LET THEM WITNESS GOD'S LOVE

 

[fabijo]

Umm.... on the index page?

You are the second person to give that exact answer! I thought it would more be in the Table of Contents, but I guess the index works fine! :laugh:

 

[Show-me]

I too struggle with which books of the Bible should or should not be there. The Catholic Church being the first Church had much to do with which books are in the Bible. This is based, in simple terms, on the fact that if they did belong or not belong in the Bible God would intervene and correct His word.

It is all about belief and faith. The story about Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar is the one I like the most because I can relate it to the current events. Jews, Muslims, and Christians all have the same Father but they can not see past their noses or their own need to dominate the world with their beliefs.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_1/abraham.html

 

[James48843]

How about this...

Where in the Bible does it say what books should be included in the Bible?

Umm.... on the index page?








(sorry, I had to.)
:notrust:

 

[fabijo]

How about this...

Where in the Bible does it say what books should be included in the Bible?

 

[The HalfBreed]

Good reading, however, let me play Devils' Advocate here....

Short n Sweet.

This quote>

The Holy Bible is the only book that I accept as the Word of God, nothing else that was written, before or after, is "holy" to me. What I believe is based on the Holy Bible, on that written Word of God, and what I believe about the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael is based on that written Word of God.

Now, Imagine that one is looking at the Holy Bible, and the other, the Koran, BOTH with the same arguments.

Now, my question would be...."WHY would one be more correct than the other>???"

Don't get mad coz I question the validity of the Bible, but, I have to look at it BOTH ways....trying to be fair.
There are some who'd rather be one-sided.........

I wonder WHY Islam is being brought up in the first place.......