Rod
Well-known member
YES, YES, and YES!
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Christianity vs Islam
- Thread starter Buster
- Start date
YES, YES, and YES!
Rod
Well-known member
Steadygain
TSP Elite
I do it mainly because the fellowship of other believers is essential to our Spiritual Growth and helps us bask in the presense of God's Spirit and we share our lives in a manner that keeps us in God's Word and living in His Spirit.
My friend Tom who passed away began a 'firewood ministry' on God's leading and donated everything to build homes for those in need. He (and others working with him) had gathered over $75,000 which was wholly for God's Glory. We have a food pantry for those in need; we go in groups around the world to help restore areas hit with natural disasters and support churches in places like Russia. Many of us (such as my daughter in Korea have their own unique ministry - and serve God with all their heart and by the life they live) and it is largely this sharing with one another and praying for each other that keep us more in Touch with His Spirit.
I go to both feed and be fed. I give 10% off the top in an offering and simply trust that God will use it as He sees fit. The church I attend is now my family. It is a United Methodist Church but I do not claim to be a 'Methodist' - for the doctrines are trival and essentially meaningless. So I am like Rod - in that I refuse to be pinned in by any doctrine apart from Christ - yet I reap the benefits of being a part of a wonderful group of people.
Frixxxx
Moderator
Amen!
They were like lost sheep that were in need of a shepherd!
I must say...this has turned into a wonderfully enlightening and beautiful thread and topic...If I do say so myself
Keep it going this way
God Bless
My belief is that a church is parts that make up the whole. Evil exists everwhere good exists. It is up to us to vanquish evil even unto the holy places. I go to church to profess my love and speak of my salvation. I do this because I was asked to do so.
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. Acts 10:42
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.1 Corinthians 14:19
Steadygain
TSP Elite
I must say...this has turned into a wonderfully enlightening and beautiful thread and topic...If I do say so myself
Keep it going this way
God Bless
We can take NO credit for this - other than the simple acknowledgement of TRUTH.
WV-girl said it all and that is everything.
When we simply except GOD for who and what He represents and focus only on that He gathers us in His Spirit and we acknowledge His abundant Grace.
Thank you Debbie
Steadygain
TSP Elite
My brother and friend - without understanding there is confusion.
You and I are on the same page my friend. I despise the Idiosyncrasies that give each of the thousands of churches their distinction. These doctrines are MEANINGLESS - and often DESTRUCTIVE - and I have left many churches because of that.
One church that had the most beautiful and openly authentic worship to God - with the Spirit of God moving in mighty ways turned out to be perhaps my biggest disappointment. They called me into the higher leadership of the church and it was during that meeting that I discovered "I had to proclaim that being Baptised in their water was a requirement for Salvation; in otherwords the Spirit of God could not/and would not enter any person apart from that".
I told them that destoys everything Christ stands for and to preach such a message would be 'spitting into the face of God'. So now I see your anger is not directed at God - but against the many structures (churches) in the name of GOD - that undermine the true message of Grace and somehow impede TRUE SPIRITUAL LIFE and CELEBRATION and GROWTH.
Now I see that your primary message is the same as mine: That being filled with God's Spirit and Grace and letting His Love dominate your life - HAS TO BE A PERSONAL ENDEAVOR - and you will find more freedom to discover God in your own home - than simply going to church and following the crowd.
May we stand strong and give all glory to Christ alone.
wv-girl
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadygain
Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused. [/b]
"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .
Originally Posted by Steadygain
Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused. [/b]
Gentleman:There's no need for you to be confused. But, there is a need for you to understand where I am coming from. My bottom line is there is no need for organized religion to nurture my spiritual needs. There are those who are emotional needy creatures, and need to be spoon fed by a local church with all of its "spiritual" thrills and frills. But unfortunately, they will only open themselves up to spiritual abuse and control once they become a member.
The abuse and control can become so subtle and deceptive that the member is blind to it until they eventually (and hopefully) have the veil lifted from their face. One example of such control is with one's finances, and how much they should "bring into the storehouse".
It's funny how someone like myself is "bitter" because I do not participate or advocate participating in organized religion, and call it out for what it is.
There are plenty of Christians out there who feel the same way I do. I'm simply bold enough to speak out.
Organized religion always has a "hidden" agenda (33,000+ individual agendas). And you're only fooling yourself if you disagree.
Me and a few friends who come together within the privacy of our own homes, or wherever, to worship our God do not.
"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .
Rod
Well-known member
There's no need for you to be confused. But, there is a need for you to understand where I am coming from. My bottom line is there is no need for organized religion to nurture my spiritual needs. There are those who are emotional needy creatures, and need to be spoon fed by a local church with all of its "spiritual" thrills and frills. But unfortunately, they will only open themselves up to spiritual abuse and control once they become a member.
The abuse and control can become so subtle and deceptive that the member is blind to it until they eventually (and hopefully) have the veil lifted from their face. One example of such control is with one's finances, and how much they should "bring into the storehouse".
It's funny how someone like myself is "bitter" because I do not participate or advocate participating in organized religion, and call it out for what it is.
There are plenty of Christians out there who feel the same way I do. I'm simply bold enough to speak out.
Organized religion always has a "hidden" agenda (33,000+ individual agendas). And you're only fooling yourself if you disagree.
Me and a few friends who come together within the privacy of our own homes, or wherever, to worship our God do not.
Steadygain
TSP Elite
Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused.
You're wonderful ! What you are trying to do is help us to appreciate how another religion can hold equally 'sacred views' and how a better understanding can dispel friction and bridge harmony.
alevin
Well-known member
That's what they believe, based on Mohammed's fundamental misunderstanding of what Christians believe-to them the Koran corrects Christian inaccuracies about nature of God, based on the verbal 3d hand garbled version he got from illiterate family member. I'm not defending the Koran as true understanding of God or valid correction of Christian scriptural teachings, just the opposite. If he'd had a copy of scripture-New Testament documents specifically, in his own language, Mohammed would not have perceived any need for Koran as supplement/correction.
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alevin
Well-known member
OK, time to step in, not to argue but to edify. Having had a number of Muslim friends and associates during an academic period of my life, and as a practicing Christian, I made extensive study of differences and similarities years ago to help me when the subject came up with any of them. I don't claim to be an expert, but I will take this particular issue on.
The reason the Koran denies Jesus as God and son of God, is that Mohammed was exposed to a garbled verbal explanation of Christianity by a family member. There was no written scripture available to them at the time for them to validate what was passed along verbally. Mohammed got the major misunderstanding and impression that Christianity taught that God literally had physical sex with Mary-which completely appalled and horrified him. and so the denial in the Surah is a rebuttal of the claim of physical sex between God and Mary and Jesus being physical son of physical God. And the misunderstanding continues today.
A Somali friend of mine told me many years ago how they explain Jesus' birth without a known father, to a virgin girl in Somali stories. As he told it, a man took a pee/wank alongside the road, wiped himself with a wad of cotton which he then tossed on the ground. Mary came along, did the same bodily function same place (must have been some good brush hiding cover or something), picked up the cotton and reused it and got pregnant from residual active sperm left on the cotton from the previous traveller. Pretty hokey? They think we think God had physical sex with Mary and that's not only hokey to them, but blasphemous to boot. The Koran is trying to set the record straight about God not being a man, and Jesus therefore not god's son. They're trying to set the record straight about Mary and God and who did what when and how. All because they didn't have the written Bible available to check the story and get it straight. Not their fault, they reacted to verbal misinformation about the nature of God. If they'd had the written scripture, the misunderstanding would never have happened and Islam and the Koran would be very different than they are today and our centuries of history with them would be very different than it is.
Rod
Well-known member
Religion along with 'church' has ruined most spiritual lives. Or in the very least, impeded one's spiritual growth.
Be your own person, and do not allow anyone or any institution that we call 'church' mold you into their image.
Can you tell that I do not advocate organized religion in any way, shape, or form... be it Judaism, Islam, Catholic, or Protestant?
I've come a long long long way since I've proclaimed to have been "saved" on April 6, 1995. Since then I have discovered that I've always been "saved". It just took a rough road to hell and back through orgainzed religion to wake me thee hell UP!
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Steadygain
TSP Elite
You and Lady have a very similar message.
GOD IS LOVE - therefore LOVE should be the ground of our existence and most define our relationship to GOD and how we live our lives; This LOVE should be the most central aspect of our relationships with one another and undoubtedly be the basis of how we perceive ourselves.
Who could possibly argue against SUCH LOVE - for this is the most basic defination of TRUE RELIGION
Rod
Well-known member
Or, if one even goes to a church.
I am a free agent in Christ. No one "church" has control over me.
XL-entLady
Well-known member
Politics wasn’t controversial enough so we opened a religion thread?? :blink: Wow!
I’d like to humbly posit that my studies of several Christian church theologies suggest to me that it boils down to three ideas:
(1) Love God.
(2) Love my neighbor.
(3) Love myself.
As to the first item, I prefer to believe that a Supreme Power, whatever you believe that to be, will represent everything that is good and light giving. Is it hard to love that kind of a concept?
Regarding the second rule, who is my neighbor? It seems to me that a loving Deity would tend to be inclusionary rather than exclusionary. So maybe my neighbor is everyone who isn’t me. As a side note, I find it interesting (in a terrifying way) that more wars have been fought and more people killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. I really don’t think that’s what Deity had in mind when religious precepts were introduced to us…. :worried:
I think we have trouble remembering the third rule. My observations make me think that there are a lot of folks out there who don’t like themselves very much. On the days I’m feeling love for myself, I choose healthy lifestyle choices. I choose to behave in ways that won’t bring me retribution down the road somewhere. And I treat my neighbor with kindness, knowing that most people treat me the way I train them to treat me.
It doesn't matter to me what name a church goes by, or if it is Christian, Jewish, Buddism, Islam. That is a meaningless label to me. If any church makes me a better person then it’s a good thing. If a church makes me hate my neighbor then it is not, in my humble opinion, what my idea of Deity represents. That to me is the true test.
Is that opinion anathema to you? If I offend, then I apologize, not for the views because I do not change them, but for the disharmony that I have brought into your day.
Can we have discussions on this thread as respectful members of a loving but diverse family? I hope so, because I believe that is what we are. And I’m glad to be back among my family.
Lady
I’d like to humbly posit that my studies of several Christian church theologies suggest to me that it boils down to three ideas:
(1) Love God.
(2) Love my neighbor.
(3) Love myself.
As to the first item, I prefer to believe that a Supreme Power, whatever you believe that to be, will represent everything that is good and light giving. Is it hard to love that kind of a concept?
Regarding the second rule, who is my neighbor? It seems to me that a loving Deity would tend to be inclusionary rather than exclusionary. So maybe my neighbor is everyone who isn’t me. As a side note, I find it interesting (in a terrifying way) that more wars have been fought and more people killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. I really don’t think that’s what Deity had in mind when religious precepts were introduced to us…. :worried:
I think we have trouble remembering the third rule. My observations make me think that there are a lot of folks out there who don’t like themselves very much. On the days I’m feeling love for myself, I choose healthy lifestyle choices. I choose to behave in ways that won’t bring me retribution down the road somewhere. And I treat my neighbor with kindness, knowing that most people treat me the way I train them to treat me.
It doesn't matter to me what name a church goes by, or if it is Christian, Jewish, Buddism, Islam. That is a meaningless label to me. If any church makes me a better person then it’s a good thing. If a church makes me hate my neighbor then it is not, in my humble opinion, what my idea of Deity represents. That to me is the true test.
Is that opinion anathema to you? If I offend, then I apologize, not for the views because I do not change them, but for the disharmony that I have brought into your day.
Can we have discussions on this thread as respectful members of a loving but diverse family? I hope so, because I believe that is what we are. And I’m glad to be back among my family.
Lady