Christianity vs Islam

[fabijo]

Islam:

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of those nearest to Allah. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be of the righteous."

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?"

He said: "Even so. Allah createth what He willeth. When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!"

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?"

He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."

Christianity:

"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am."

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[XL-entLady]

Politics wasn’t controversial enough so we opened a religion thread?? :blink: Wow!

I’d like to humbly posit that my studies of several Christian church theologies suggest to me that it boils down to three ideas:

(1) Love God.
(2) Love my neighbor.
(3) Love myself.

As to the first item, I prefer to believe that a Supreme Power, whatever you believe that to be, will represent everything that is good and light giving. Is it hard to love that kind of a concept?

Regarding the second rule, who is my neighbor? It seems to me that a loving Deity would tend to be inclusionary rather than exclusionary. So maybe my neighbor is everyone who isn’t me. As a side note, I find it interesting (in a terrifying way) that more wars have been fought and more people killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. I really don’t think that’s what Deity had in mind when religious precepts were introduced to us…. :worried:

I think we have trouble remembering the third rule. My observations make me think that there are a lot of folks out there who don’t like themselves very much. On the days I’m feeling love for myself, I choose healthy lifestyle choices. I choose to behave in ways that won’t bring me retribution down the road somewhere. And I treat my neighbor with kindness, knowing that most people treat me the way I train them to treat me.

It doesn't matter to me what name a church goes by, or if it is Christian, Jewish, Buddism, Islam. That is a meaningless label to me. If any church makes me a better person then it’s a good thing. If a church makes me hate my neighbor then it is not, in my humble opinion, what my idea of Deity represents. That to me is the true test.

Is that opinion anathema to you? If I offend, then I apologize, not for the views because I do not change them, but for the disharmony that I have brought into your day.

Can we have discussions on this thread as respectful members of a loving but diverse family? I hope so, because I believe that is what we are. And I’m glad to be back among my family.

Lady

 

[Rod]

Amen !! Brother
It honestly makes little difference what church we go to...

Or, if one even goes to a church.

I am a free agent in Christ. No one "church" has control over me.

 

[Steadygain]

Or, if one even goes to a church.

I am a free agent in Christ. No one "church" has control over me.

You and Lady have a very similar message.

GOD IS LOVE - therefore LOVE should be the ground of our existence and most define our relationship to GOD and how we live our lives; This LOVE should be the most central aspect of our relationships with one another and undoubtedly be the basis of how we perceive ourselves.

Who could possibly argue against SUCH LOVE - for this is the most basic defination of TRUE RELIGION

 

[Guest2]

Religion has ruined Spiritual Belief. I believe
in God, I just don't believe in Religion. :suspicious:

 

[Rod]

Religion has ruined Spiritual Belief. I believe
in God, I just don't believe in Religion. :suspicious:

Religion along with 'church' has ruined most spiritual lives. Or in the very least, impeded one's spiritual growth.

Be your own person, and do not allow anyone or any institution that we call 'church' mold you into their image.

Can you tell that I do not advocate organized religion in any way, shape, or form... be it Judaism, Islam, Catholic, or Protestant?

I've come a long long long way since I've proclaimed to have been "saved" on April 6, 1995. Since then I have discovered that I've always been "saved". It just took a rough road to hell and back through orgainzed religion to wake me thee hell UP!

 

[alevin]

Quote from Koran, Surah 5:17

OK, time to step in, not to argue but to edify. Having had a number of Muslim friends and associates during an academic period of my life, and as a practicing Christian, I made extensive study of differences and similarities years ago to help me when the subject came up with any of them. I don't claim to be an expert, but I will take this particular issue on.

The reason the Koran denies Jesus as God and son of God, is that Mohammed was exposed to a garbled verbal explanation of Christianity by a family member. There was no written scripture available to them at the time for them to validate what was passed along verbally. Mohammed got the major misunderstanding and impression that Christianity taught that God literally had physical sex with Mary-which completely appalled and horrified him. and so the denial in the Surah is a rebuttal of the claim of physical sex between God and Mary and Jesus being physical son of physical God. And the misunderstanding continues today.

A Somali friend of mine told me many years ago how they explain Jesus' birth without a known father, to a virgin girl in Somali stories. As he told it, a man took a pee/wank alongside the road, wiped himself with a wad of cotton which he then tossed on the ground. Mary came along, did the same bodily function same place (must have been some good brush hiding cover or something), picked up the cotton and reused it and got pregnant from residual active sperm left on the cotton from the previous traveller. Pretty hokey? They think we think God had physical sex with Mary and that's not only hokey to them, but blasphemous to boot. The Koran is trying to set the record straight about God not being a man, and Jesus therefore not god's son. They're trying to set the record straight about Mary and God and who did what when and how. All because they didn't have the written Bible available to check the story and get it straight. Not their fault, they reacted to verbal misinformation about the nature of God. If they'd had the written scripture, the misunderstanding would never have happened and Islam and the Koran would be very different than they are today and our centuries of history with them would be very different than it is.

 

[fabijo]

Thanks for the explanation, alevin. But, doesn't the Koran claim to be a clearer revelation to mankind from Allah? Allah would certainly know whether Jesus is His son or not.

 

[alevin]

That's what they believe, based on Mohammed's fundamental misunderstanding of what Christians believe-to them the Koran corrects Christian inaccuracies about nature of God, based on the verbal 3d hand garbled version he got from illiterate family member. I'm not defending the Koran as true understanding of God or valid correction of Christian scriptural teachings, just the opposite. If he'd had a copy of scripture-New Testament documents specifically, in his own language, Mohammed would not have perceived any need for Koran as supplement/correction.

 

[Steadygain]

Religion along with 'church' has ruined most spiritual lives. Or in the very least, impeded one's spiritual growth.

Sounds like someone needs to blame something instead of taking responsibility for themself. Anyone who depends on a religion, minister, or church to supply your 'Spiritual Needs' and keep you in the proper mindset can not possibly know God on the level that God desires. If you want to be Spiritual then YOU HAVE TO MAKE A POINT of offering your life to God and letting GOD fill you and direct you in every facet of your life. THE CHURCH is nothing more than a body of believers that are all flawed to the core and will remain flawed. But if they inspire each other to dig deeper and find the greater truths and work together for God's Glory then that is the kind of CHURCH where a believer should strive to encourage and support.

Be your own person, and do not allow anyone or any institution that we call 'church' mold you into their image.

Unless that image is the TRUE IMAGE of CHRIST and the LOVE that purely stems from God's Grace and Glory and is truely to his honor. Here you will see God at work - reaching out to others in a true spirit of yearning and sacrifice.

Can you tell that I do not advocate organized religion in any way, shape, or form... be it Judaism, Islam, Catholic, or Protestant?

I can tell you are bitter and somehow blame organized religion for misunderstanding the TRUE NATURE OF GOD and GOD's LOVE FOR YOU AND HOW IT WAS MEANT TO WORK IN YOUR LIFE. But I can not change what has happened and how you perceived it. I can only say I'm sorry it happened.

I've come a long long long way since I've proclaimed to have been "saved" on April 6, 1995.
From what were you saved? From bitterness that seeps deeply inside you? From anger towards how you felt deceived? From having to experience hardships and misundertandings and having the stench attached to them totally taken away?

Were you brought into a better understanding where by God took you to a different plain? Where His Love and Life filled you and made you realize that His Spirit blending with Yours are the only thing that really matter? Have you honestly learned true FORGIVENESS through His Grace or do you insist on holding on to negative aspects that work against that Grace?

Since then I have discovered that I've always been "saved".
If you have always been saved, then why would there ever have been a need for God?? ALWAYS BEEN SAVED - implies you never had a need for salvation. You were always whole; always perfect in every way possible.

It just took a rough road to hell and back through orgainzed religion to wake me thee hell UP!

Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused.

That's what they believe, based on Mohammed's fundamental misunderstanding of what Christians believe-to them the Koran corrects Christian inaccuracies about nature of God, based on the verbal 3d hand garbled version he got from illiterate family member.

I sincerely appreciate your input and this helps me a great deal in understanding this aspect by which they hold their belief.

From my perspective it doesn't make any difference wheather you believe everything was created in 6 literal days; if Mary was a virgin...

The only thing that really makes a difference is the Spirit of God becoming the most dominate aspect of our existence. If such a Spirit brings us in Harmony with the Spirit of Christ and the LOVE by which He is Known then everything else is meaningless and I would not waste my time arguing with someone on more trivial matters. Would that make me love them any less at this point in time NO.

The focus should be God's LOVE and the ability to assimilate that LOVE to every person we encounter.

I'm not defending the Koran as true understanding of God or valid correction of Christian scriptural teachings, just the opposite. If he'd had a copy of scripture-New Testament documents specifically, in his own language, Mohammed would not have perceived any need for Koran as supplement/correction.

You're wonderful ! What you are trying to do is help us to appreciate how another religion can hold equally 'sacred views' and how a better understanding can dispel friction and bridge harmony.

 

[Rod]

Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused. [/B]

There's no need for you to be confused. But, there is a need for you to understand where I am coming from. My bottom line is there is no need for organized religion to nurture my spiritual needs. There are those who are emotional needy creatures, and need to be spoon fed by a local church with all of its "spiritual" thrills and frills. But unfortunately, they will only open themselves up to spiritual abuse and control once they become a member.

The abuse and control can become so subtle and deceptive that the member is blind to it until they eventually (and hopefully) have the veil lifted from their face. One example of such control is with one's finances, and how much they should "bring into the storehouse".

It's funny how someone like myself is "bitter" because I do not participate or advocate participating in organized religion, and call it out for what it is.

There are plenty of Christians out there who feel the same way I do. I'm simply bold enough to speak out.

Organized religion always has a "hidden" agenda (33,000+ individual agendas). And you're only fooling yourself if you disagree.

Me and a few friends who come together within the privacy of our own homes, or wherever, to worship our God do not.

 

[Buster]

There are those who are emotional needy creatures, and need to be spoon fed by a local church with all of its "spiritual" thrills and frills. But unfortunately, they will only open themselves up to spiritual abuse and control once they become a member.
There are plenty of Christians out there who feel the same way I do. I'm simply bold enough to speak out.
.

Amen Brother...

Jim Jones' comes to mind..Kool-aid anyone?

 

[wv-girl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadygain
Please know that I'm not out to be your enemy and I'm honestly not trying to embarrass you or make you mad or anything like that. If you make comments like this on an open forum then I hope you respect someone like me to ask questions or make comments; because what you have expressed is associated with a lot of anger and resentment and you've made some very bold statements. So I'm respectfully confused. [/b]

There's no need for you to be confused. But, there is a need for you to understand where I am coming from. My bottom line is there is no need for organized religion to nurture my spiritual needs. There are those who are emotional needy creatures, and need to be spoon fed by a local church with all of its "spiritual" thrills and frills. But unfortunately, they will only open themselves up to spiritual abuse and control once they become a member.

The abuse and control can become so subtle and deceptive that the member is blind to it until they eventually (and hopefully) have the veil lifted from their face. One example of such control is with one's finances, and how much they should "bring into the storehouse".

It's funny how someone like myself is "bitter" because I do not participate or advocate participating in organized religion, and call it out for what it is.

There are plenty of Christians out there who feel the same way I do. I'm simply bold enough to speak out.

Organized religion always has a "hidden" agenda (33,000+ individual agendas). And you're only fooling yourself if you disagree.

Me and a few friends who come together within the privacy of our own homes, or wherever, to worship our God do not.

Gentleman:
"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .

 

[Steadygain]

There's no need for you to be confused. But, there is a need for you to understand where I am coming from. My bottom line is there is no need for organized religion to nurture my spiritual needs.

My brother and friend - without understanding there is confusion.

You and I are on the same page my friend. I despise the Idiosyncrasies that give each of the thousands of churches their distinction. These doctrines are MEANINGLESS - and often DESTRUCTIVE - and I have left many churches because of that.

One church that had the most beautiful and openly authentic worship to God - with the Spirit of God moving in mighty ways turned out to be perhaps my biggest disappointment. They called me into the higher leadership of the church and it was during that meeting that I discovered "I had to proclaim that being Baptised in their water was a requirement for Salvation; in otherwords the Spirit of God could not/and would not enter any person apart from that".

I told them that destoys everything Christ stands for and to preach such a message would be 'spitting into the face of God'. So now I see your anger is not directed at God - but against the many structures (churches) in the name of GOD - that undermine the true message of Grace and somehow impede TRUE SPIRITUAL LIFE and CELEBRATION and GROWTH.

Now I see that your primary message is the same as mine: That being filled with God's Spirit and Grace and letting His Love dominate your life - HAS TO BE A PERSONAL ENDEAVOR - and you will find more freedom to discover God in your own home - than simply going to church and following the crowd.

May we stand strong and give all glory to Christ alone.

 

[Buster]

I must say...this has turned into a wonderfully enlightening and beautiful thread and topic...If I do say so myself


Keep it going this way


God Bless

 

[Steadygain]

I must say...this has turned into a wonderfully enlightening and beautiful thread and topic...If I do say so myself

Keep it going this way

God Bless

We can take NO credit for this - other than the simple acknowledgement of TRUTH.

WV-girl said it all and that is everything.

"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .

When we simply except GOD for who and what He represents and focus only on that He gathers us in His Spirit and we acknowledge His abundant Grace.

Thank you Debbie

 

[Frixxxx]

Quote:
Gentleman:
"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .

Amen!

One church that had the most beautiful and openly authentic worship to God - with the Spirit of God moving in mighty ways turned out to be perhaps my biggest disappointment. They called me into the higher leadership of the church and it was during that meeting that I discovered "I had to proclaim that being Baptised in their water was a requirement for Salvation; in otherwords the Spirit of God could not/and would not enter any person apart from that".

May we stand strong and give all glory to Christ alone.

They were like lost sheep that were in need of a shepherd!

I must say...this has turned into a wonderfully enlightening and beautiful thread and topic...If I do say so myself
Keep it going this way
God Bless

My belief is that a church is parts that make up the whole. Evil exists everwhere good exists. It is up to us to vanquish evil even unto the holy places. I go to church to profess my love and speak of my salvation. I do this because I was asked to do so.

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. Acts 10:42

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.1 Corinthians 14:19

 

[Steadygain]

I go to church to profess my love and speak of my salvation. I do this because....

I do it mainly because the fellowship of other believers is essential to our Spiritual Growth and helps us bask in the presense of God's Spirit and we share our lives in a manner that keeps us in God's Word and living in His Spirit.

My friend Tom who passed away began a 'firewood ministry' on God's leading and donated everything to build homes for those in need. He (and others working with him) had gathered over $75,000 which was wholly for God's Glory. We have a food pantry for those in need; we go in groups around the world to help restore areas hit with natural disasters and support churches in places like Russia. Many of us (such as my daughter in Korea have their own unique ministry - and serve God with all their heart and by the life they live) and it is largely this sharing with one another and praying for each other that keep us more in Touch with His Spirit.

I go to both feed and be fed. I give 10% off the top in an offering and simply trust that God will use it as He sees fit. The church I attend is now my family. It is a United Methodist Church but I do not claim to be a 'Methodist' - for the doctrines are trival and essentially meaningless. So I am like Rod - in that I refuse to be pinned in by any doctrine apart from Christ - yet I reap the benefits of being a part of a wonderful group of people.

 

[Rod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wv-girl
Gentleman:
"When two or more are gathered in HIS name, HE is there." .

I concur. That's even further evidence of no need for organized congregations.

Heck, when you think about it, and the experiences you have had personally, He is even there when you are simply alone with Him.

 

[Rod]

My brother and friend - without understanding there is confusion.

You and I are on the same page my friend. I despise the Idiosyncrasies that give each of the thousands of churches their distinction. These doctrines are MEANINGLESS - and often DESTRUCTIVE - and I have left many churches because of that.

One church that had the most beautiful and openly authentic worship to God - with the Spirit of God moving in mighty ways turned out to be perhaps my biggest disappointment. They called me into the higher leadership of the church and it was during that meeting that I discovered "I had to proclaim that being Baptised in their water was a requirement for Salvation; in otherwords the Spirit of God could not/and would not enter any person apart from that".

I told them that destoys everything Christ stands for and to preach such a message would be 'spitting into the face of God'. So now I see your anger is not directed at God - but against the many structures (churches) in the name of GOD - that undermine the true message of Grace and somehow impede TRUE SPIRITUAL LIFE and CELEBRATION and GROWTH.

Now I see that your primary message is the same as mine: That being filled with God's Spirit and Grace and letting His Love dominate your life - HAS TO BE A PERSONAL ENDEAVOR - and you will find more freedom to discover God in your own home - than simply going to church and following the crowd.

May we stand strong and give all glory to Christ alone.

We are in agreement.