Arizona Immigration law

[coolhand]

Last line is the best:
But so long as Republicans, Democrats and Mr. Obama mainly view immigration as an electoral weapon, the nation can expect more desperate laws like Arizona's. :suspicious:

I agree. It really sums up the whole situation. It's the failure and/or lack of enforcement of Federal laws by ALL political parties going back many years, if not decades.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Oh, the exaggeration. Why do supposedly educated people get influenced by an author such as this? Say, I heard a new term yesterday to replace "illegal immigrants" and "undocumented immigrants" and "future amnesty applicants". The new term is "unregistered Democrats".

nnuut, do you have a graphic for the tipping point?

I prefer the term, Criminal Aliens. ALL people who enter our country illegally are criminals. They have committed a crime. Specifically, Title 8 United States Code, Section 1325. It can be charged as a felony, misdemeanor, or it can be dealt with administratively through removal proceedings. No matter how you look at it, anyone who supports illegal immigrants is supporting criminals.

 

[James48843]

Viva- question for you-

I've heard the number "12 million" as the number of illegal immegrants (or undocumented aliens, or whatever.).


Of those-

What percentage do you think entered illegally, vs. what percentage are people that came across the border legally, but did not leave when their visa expired, or whatever was legal for them to enter?

I would think more are of the 'expired' kind, than of the illegally crossed the border kind.

What do you think?

 

[XL-entLady]

Except in New Mexico, where it is written into the State's Constitution that it is a bilingual state and things will be done in both Spanish and English.

They wanted to honor their heritage. Because the USA took that land as part of the war settlement. You know, "we have the right to claim this land from the savages because God is on our side" stuff.

There you go with that reparations stuff. You know our civil war military leaders needed hands on experience. And, isn't it bad enough that our big corporations have already had to suffer from nationalization in latin america, and the resulting impact on our rich tycoons? They're still trying to regain their total control there as well as here. Besides, wasn't France in the action somewhere? How many generations are required to pay for perceived wrongs? Two? Three? Four? Five? Six? Seven? Eight? Nine?

Hey, buddy, all I meant was that New Mexico isn't ever going to be an 'English only' state. Because the State Constitution wants to honor their heritage. I don't know where you came up with the idea that I want somebody to pay for perceived wrongs. I'm the one who is always telling people that just because their grandfather broke his leg it does not give them the right to limp! So that was a pretty big conclusion you jumped to. :notrust:

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Viva- question for you-

I've heard the number "12 million" as the number of illegal immegrants (or undocumented aliens, or whatever.).


Of those-

What percentage do you think entered illegally, vs. what percentage are people that came across the border legally, but did not leave when their visa expired, or whatever was legal for them to enter?

I would think more are of the 'expired' kind, than of the illegally crossed the border kind.

What do you think?

That is a good question. The fact is we don't know for sure how many people have overstayed their visas. The system for verifying departure is imperfect at best. Visitors and other nonimmigrants are supposed to turn in paperwork to Customs and Border Protection on their departure from the United States, but that isn't enforced on the land borders. Except for occasional "southbound" operations targeting illicit drug profits being taken to Mexico, CBP Officers don't inspect people going into Mexico. Therefore, it's difficult to determine whether a nonimmigrant has departed the U.S. after their visa has expired.

That said, I don't believe there are more overstays than illegal crossers in the U.S. Even though the verification system is imperfect, we do know that most nonimmigrants do return home on or before their authorized stay ends. What we don't know for sure is how many people have entered illegally.

 

[Minnow]

Except in New Mexico, where it is written into the State's Constitution that it is a bilingual state and things will be done in both Spanish and English.

They wanted to honor their heritage. Because the USA took that land as part of the war settlement. You know, "we have the right to claim this land from the savages because God is on our side" stuff.

Maybe you should have put: "They wanted to honor their Spanish heritage." Most of the early spanish-speaking settlers in New Mexico were of Spanish descent -- not Mexican.

The articles of the treaty dealing with land grants upon which some still live were struck down by the U.S. government because they were granted by another sovreign ... but most were honored and allowed to be passed down from generation to generation -- those horrible land grabbing colonial Americans!. Want to know which side of the U.S.-Mexican wars these folks fought on? It's usually a matter of pride among alot of New Mexicans that can trace their Spanish lineage. They still consider themselves Americans through and through and rightfully so... most just chuckle (some get irate) if you think they're "Mexican." Sort of like people tracing their Irish heritage or whatever.

 

[Minnow]

Well, we'll just have to disagree on constitutionality. DUI Roadblocks haven't gone to the supreme court yet but at least one state has backed down.

Yes they have and, except in unrelated matters, certiorari was denied. That generally means that no opinion was expressed and they will leave the matter up to the state to decide. Therefore, some states have them, others don't. The federal government is allowed to run the border patrol checkpoints, and if there was an unconstitutional element, it would have nothing to do with the 4th amendment.

 

[Minnow]

Let me mull that over for a while.

I still think it's wrong to detain someone who is a U.S. citizen, and making them go get their birth certificate. I think the fact that he has a commerical driver's license, which he showed, should be enough to show identity.

I'll think about the Constitutional implications some more.

While you are mulling this over, why would you still be posting opinion pieces and Rachel Maddow videos? Are you keeping an open mind? I hope so.

It's really a simple concept because the law says it is a crime for a non-citizen to be in the U.S. without permission from the U.S. Government. Police officers are allowed to question, detain and arrest for crimes... period.

If your reasoning or opinion takes you on tangents away from those last two sentences, it is faulty. If you believe otherwise, your logic is flawed and must be re-examined. Period.

 

[XL-entLady]

Maybe you should have put: "They wanted to honor their Spanish heritage." Most of the early spanish-speaking settlers in New Mexico were of Spanish descent -- not Mexican.

The articles of the treaty dealing with land grants upon which some still live were struck down by the U.S. government because they were granted by another sovreign ... but most were honored and allowed to be passed down from generation to generation -- those horrible land grabbing colonial Americans!. Want to know which side of the U.S.-Mexican wars these folks fought on? It's usually a matter of pride among alot of New Mexicans that can trace their Spanish lineage. They still consider themselves Americans through and through and rightfully so... most just chuckle (some get irate) if you think they're "Mexican." Sort of like people tracing their Irish heritage or whatever.

Ah. That is an important distinction indeed. Mexican Spanish is a very different language than Cathtilian Thpanith. :toung:

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Ah. That is an important distinction indeed. Mexican Spanish is a very different language than Cathtilian Thpanith. :toung:

Are you actually making fun of how Spanish people speak their native tongue? Who says liberals are nothing but sensitive, compassionate, and tolerant people?

 

[XL-entLady]

Are you actually making fun of how Spanish people speak their native tongue? Who says liberals are nothing but sensitive, compassionate, and tolerant people?

Nope, Viva, I'm not making fun.

I have a dearly loved cousin who speaks Castilian Spanish and an even more dearly loved little granddaughter who speaks with a lisp. And they get a real kick out of trading the Spanish and English words for things. It's a hoot to listen to them and it's having the added advantage of making my granddaughter bilingual.

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Is anyone surprised that the Attorney General who refused to prosecute the new Black Panthers for voter intimidation is now considering suing Arizona over their immigration law?

 

[FAB1]

More States need to pass the similar laws, keep up the pressure, drive the libs completely crazy! Shouldnt be to hard, they are half-nuts anyway.

 

[Show-me]

They are here illegally and should follow the law and if they will not follow the law and the federal .gov will not actively enforce the existing laws, then States with risk should enact what ever law they need to to insure the State, its finances, and its people are protected.

Simple solution, create data base with photo of person matched to SSN, nothing more, and allow employers to access it to verify citizen workers. If I am a 6' 6" crusty old guy on the screen and the new potently employee looks like he 5' 5" and is from Gutalmala........................ NEXT!!!

 

[alevin]

Ah. That is an important distinction indeed. Mexican Spanish is a very different language than Cathtilian Thpanith. :toung:

I learned about the lisp many many years ago. And about Spanish Land-Grant southwesterners about 25 years ago-from a coworker who are one. Took great pride in educating me about the difference between land-grant Spanish and Mexican.

Reading Milagro Bean Field War Trilogy contributed to the education along the way somwhere too.

 

[CountryBoy]

What America is Michael Gerson living in?

No, we are not confronted by actors with heavy German accents demanding our papers. We are instead confronted routinely by people of all stripes asking to see our driver's license. When we board an airplane, we are asked to produce a government-issued photo ID, usually a driver's license. When we make some credit- or debit-card purchases in department stores, we are asked to produce a driver's license. When we enter many office buildings, both private and government, security guards often ask us to produce a driver's license. When we go to doctors' offices and hospitals, we are asked to produce a driver's license. When we check into hotels, we are asked to produce a driver's license. When we purchase some over-the-counter drugs, we are asked to produce a driver's license. If we go to a bar or nightclub, anyone who looks at all young is asked to produce a driver's license. And needless to say, if we have any encounter with police or other authorities, we are asked to produce a driver's license.

Some situations involve an even higher level of scrutiny. When we get a new job, we are asked to provide not a driver's license but a passport or birth certificate to prove citizenship. In other situations, too: When I renewed my District of Columbia driver's license last year, I had to produce a passport to prove citizenship, even though it was a valid, unexpired license I was renewing. And in many places, buying a gun -- a constitutionally-protected right -- involves enormous scrutiny.

Has Michael Gerson never experienced any of those situations? And by the way, has he read the Arizona law? Does he know that it specifically states that in any encounter with police, when a person produces a valid Arizona driver's license (or, for non-drivers, other forms of ID listed in the law), that person is immediately presumed to be in the United States legally? Given all the situations listed above, can anyone argue that being asked to produce a driver's license, if one is in some sort of encounter with police in which police are acting lawfully (that is also specified by the new law) is overly burdensome? Being asked to produce identification is a burden that falls on everyone.

That is simply a fact of life today. Many of the situations in which we are asked to produce ID are the result of laws passed by our representatives, Democrats and Republicans, that are, overall, good things. But they require Americans to produce their papers, in the form of a driver's license, quite frequently. If Americans responded with "Go to hell" and "See you in court" each time they were asked to produce their license, both hell and court would be very crowded.

P.S. -- All the discussion above relates to people who are American citizens. In addition to the situations requiring a driver's license, some people might not know that since the 1940s, federal law has required non-citizens who are in the United States permanently to carry on their person, at all times, the official documents proving that they are here legally -- green card, work visa, etc. That has been the law for 70 years, and the new Arizona law does not change it.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ica-is-Michael-Gerson-living-in-92301779.html

Racist or Law?

 

[James48843]

Do you think THEY will be stopped, and made to prove that they are in this country legally?

Do you think for a minute that the officer wouldn't come up with some "reasonable suspicion"?

View attachment 9163​

 

[Steadygain]

They are here illegally and should follow the law!

Hmmm somehow that doesn't sound right.

Seems to me ~~ if they are illegally here ~~ they should have freedoms way beyond the rest of us. I mean they ~~ of all people ~~ should NOT have to worry about any laws.

It's kind of like before I came to know GOD on a deeply intimate and all emcompassing level -- I use to be able to do some things and not have to deal with strong and unshakable convictions -- well NO MORE -- and it's not that I live to avoid 'Convictions' but I know life is way better living the way you should.

But maybe ~ and I sense that 82.7% of the MB (and visitors) agree with this. But maybe we should grant the illegals 'immunity' simply because they are here illegally and let them do whatever they want.

Better yet -- give them T shirts that say 'Don't Worry -- Be Happy'.

OK -- well there are my magical thoughts for today


Hey and the picture James just posted -- that's what illegals look like -- which all the more supports my case.

 

[CountryBoy]

Do you think THEY will be stopped, and made to prove that they are in this country legally?

Do you think for a minute that the officer wouldn't come up with some "reasonable suspicion"?

View attachment 9163​

EDIT: Disregard above comment. I should've said, what does this have to do with the POV of the article? We either have laws or we don't. If we don't, we can just add anarchist to the list.

 

[Frixxxx]

Do you think THEY will be stopped, and made to prove that they are in this country legally?

Do you think for a minute that the officer wouldn't come up with some "reasonable suspicion"?

Next time I see them crossing the Rio Grande to come watch a soccer match, I'll notify the authorities.

Really James? I am starting to question the requirements to be a moderator.:suspicious: