Arizona Immigration law

I highly recommend the following opinion piece. It says what I've been trying, but failing, to put across.

How we became white people
by Christina Lander

"...I'm a white male. I belong to a group that pretty much always been able to own land and to vote. I'm more or less from the kind that grabbed power somewhere after the fall of Rome and never let go. In other words, I'm the kind of white guy that has never experienced any real oppression.

Although I guess my ancestors technically left England because of some religious persecution and in spite of a rough boat ride and a rough first Thanksgiving, it's safe to say it worked out pretty well. ... But in addition to being white and having ancestors on the Mayflower, I'm also Canadian. Yes, I know that might actually make me more white than before, but it also technically makes me an immigrant to this country. ......

The reality is that America has a long history of welcoming immigrants who will never be able to check that white box on the census, and unfortunately that means America also has a long history of discrimination against those people regardless of their status in the country. Just one example would be the treatment of Japanese-Americans during World War II contrasted against the treatment of German-Americans. But all of that was in the past right? Well, ask yourself this: Who is more likely to get pulled over and forced to show his papers in Arizona today? A first generation Canadian immigrant, or a 10th generation Mexican-American?

What I hope this census will force the country to deal with is the fact that white immigrants like me will never again make up the majority of people that come to this country. America is not getting whiter, it will never get whiter. Well, unless we start handing those blankets out again."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/29/lander.who.am.i/index.html?hpt=T2
Depends on how many times the Canadian says "eh.":D

Seriously though, this opinion piece assumes that EVERY cop in Arizona is white. Such is not the case. It also presumes that EVERY cop in Arizona will ONLY go after "Latinos" to prove citizenship. Is everyone doing time in an Arizona prison latino? No, so this fear is unfounded. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I am sure there are quite a few white people doing time in Arizona prisons.

At what point do white people cease to be responsible for the sins of their ancestors? I know for a race baiter like Al Sharpton, that answer is never, but at some point white people cease being responsible for the real or perceived ills of the other races. I am mostly white. I say mostly, because I also have ancestors that were Cherokee, but for all appearances I am white. I have never owned another person as a slave, I have never worn the uniform of a Klansman, I have never burned a cross, and I have never worn a swastika armband. I agree with and believe in the teachings of Martin Luther King, that one should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Too bad the liberal media doesn't believe the same way anymore.

For those that don't like the Arizona law, let me ask you a question. What would you do if you were in your home and someone broke into your home, ate your food, ordered pay per view movies through your cable service, and went to your bedroom to sleep in your bed? Would you call the police and have them arrested? Why? Because it's a crime to do that. So why is it any different to arrest people who have broken their way into the United States and are taking services away from people who were either born here or are here legally? What is the difference?
 
nothing wrong with that, VLM, nothing at all. It's the loss of freedom for citizens that bothers me, suddenly if we visit down there, we have to be scrambling to make sure we have the "right" documents on us just in case we get pulled over for any reason. Documents I never carry around with me under normal circumstances in this country.

Burden of proof is suddenly on us (if in AZ away from the border) to prove we belong in this country, it would not just illegals having to provide proof. I fully expect to provide my proof at the border when re-entering the country. I never dreamed there would be a chance I or my nephews would ever have to possibly "prove" we are citizens or that citizens could be "detained" (up to 72 hours) as possible aliens inside our own country (if don't have the "right" documents on our persons when asked). Lady's AZ LE contact says carry the "right" documents or possibly pay the consequences.

So...again, I have a choice. I don't need to travel there, so I won't. Others are free to make different choices. The border needs to be secured. You guys need to be properly funded and supported by Congress and the CinC to do that. Securing the border is a federal responsibility.

What to do about the illegals inside the country already? Go after the employers a whole lot harder and help citizens get out from under unmanageable mortgages so they are free to go to where the work is (the work the illegals would otherwise be employed to do). We have farm labor camps in my area, I've seen them other places in the NW too. People that are homeless would appreciate having shelter over their heads, I bet.
 
Steady,

Thanks for the very cool compliment and I'm cool with being just a citizen. Very liberating and I did not feel I contributed that much as a Mod anyways. :)

Have a great weekend, as for me, I am going to watch my son play some jazz at the local watering hole. It feels a little strange as he is only 17, but he is very good.

Sat front row, got home at 0100, up at 0600, five hours sleep, four Ibuprofen, one very large cup of Joe, and trencher rental at 0800. Someone kill me now...................PLEASE.

I actually feel amazing but the sleepy monster is going to kick my butt around noon when I take the trencher back.
 
Yeah, between the catholics and LDS, that would close down the baby factories:laugh::laugh:

I lived there for 6 years....I know.....Something in the water!

Nice thing about the FairTax is the Treas. sends the "prebate" check at the beginning of the tax year to everyone and each little rug rat qualifies, sooooooo breed away and get your money up front.

What's not to like. :D
 
Search is on for five suspected illegal immigrants believed to have shot an Arizona deputy

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


PHOENIX - After a frantic hour-long desert search, authorities found a deputy wounded in a shootout Friday with suspected illegal immigrants apparently hauling bales of marijuana along a major smuggling corridor in southern Arizona.

The deputy was found with a superficial wound - a chunk of skin torn from just above his left kidney - after being shot with an AK-47 on Friday afternoon, Pinal County sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said. He was flown by helicopter to a hospital in Casa Grande, about 40 miles south of Phoenix.

Villar said the deputy was doing smuggling interdiction work and found bales of marijuana in the desert. He then encountered five suspected illegal immigrants, two armed with rifles, and was shot.

"He was out on his routine daily patrol in the area when he encountered a load of marijuana out in the desert. He obviously confronted the individuals and took fire," Villar told The Associated Press. "I was speaking with him just a bit ago, and he's doing fantastic."

The deputy was alone about five miles from a rest stop along Interstate 8, about halfway between Phoenix and Tucson.

The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.

"Over the past 12 months we've seen an increase in the amount of drugs, and an increase in violence that has been going on in this particular corridor," Villar told KPNX.

"We've had increasing concerns in this area about being outmanned and outgunned, and unfortunately this evening, this is coming true," he said.

The shooting came as Arizona grapples with backlash over its enactment of a tough new law targeting illegal immigration. Civil rights activists, concerned the law will lead to racial profiling, have called for a boycott of the state.

The law signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last week is supported by many in the state, which has become a major gateway for drug smuggling and human trafficking from Mexico.

Its passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers, drop houses and other problems caused by poor border security.

Villar said the search for the suspects involved numerous helicopters from state and federal law enforcement agencies and scores of officers near Interstate 8 and Arizona 84 about 50 miles south of Phoenix.

"The deputy is a search-and-rescue deputy, so its not uncommon for them to work those areas A) looking for drugs and B) looking for people who need assistance out there," Villar said. "Obviously its a high-traffic area for drug- and human-smuggling.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz0mg45SCnc
 
Darn good thing they passed that Arizona law requiring everyone to prove their citizenship. That will stop those guys from smuggling BALES of pot.

Perhaps legalizing pot would be far more effective in reducing events like this, don't ya think?
 
If the Good Folks in the USA would stop doing drugs their would be no market here and the problem would go away.:nuts: You POTHEADS should Start drinking and quit the DOPE!:D hillbilly.gif hippy.gif
 
If the Good Folks in the USA would stop doing drugs their would be no market here and the problem would go away.:nuts: You POTHEADS should Start drinking and quit the DOPE!:D

Negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

 
Arizona is home for me.... I grew up here.

And quite frankly, I'm sure the immigration/illegal problem
is no worse here than Cal, Texas, and probably many others too.

Cops have plenty to do already, and the way I understand it
this new law is not going to all of the sudden make them into Border
Patrol agents or Immigration officials.

If you rob a convenience store. Expect to be asked about your citizenship.
Will you be asked if you are a US Citizen if you get pulled over for speeding?
Maybe. Get caught selling drugs? Pretty sure they are going to ask.

The questions? maybe 2 or 3 at most. Are you a US Citizen? Where were
you born? What town and hospital? What county is that? Boy... that's a real drain on my/your/their civil rights!! (sarcasm intended!)

Racial profiling? The questions will become standard protocol for the Police
when they are arresting you for committing a CRIME. Same questions for
all colors/nationalities. That argument goes away.

They are preparing the training syllabus now.

If someone is against, or wants to debate this Law. Then the most important, numero uno, absolute FIRST item that MUST be agreed upon, is the definition
of legal vs illegal, and the associated Federal Laws. Period. The discussion
begins and ends right there.

Enough of the political correctness crap here. Legal or illegal?
 
If the Good Folks in the USA would stop doing drugs their would be no market here and the problem would go away.:nuts: You POTHEADS should Start drinking and quit the DOPE!:D View attachment 9214 View attachment 9215
If the so-called evil gateway naturally occurring Hemp plant is to be classified ILLEGAL..then it only seems fair that any non occurring un-natural substances that are MAN MADE via distilling and fermenting should be BANNED and classified ILLEGAL as well...There are enough statics to prove Alcohol is far more dangerous and habit forming and has ruined more lives than the simple and pure in nature cannabis plant.

Norm it worries me you are getting to cozy with FWM, your rational is starting to falter:worried:
 
A reporter on TV discussing police preparations for the demonstrations today said that, in the demonstration when the law was signed, some threw water bottles at police. I must have missed a donkey posting of that event. Certainly doesn't rise to the impact of wayward spittle but still.....
 
Darn good thing they passed that Arizona law requiring everyone to prove their citizenship. That will stop those guys from smuggling BALES of pot.

Perhaps legalizing pot would be far more effective in reducing events like this, don't ya think?

on behalf of the Border Patrol and other local in-the-field lawmen, I want to thank you for your obvious: "Well, if you hadn't been out there you wouldn't have come within inches of a medical emergency. It is your own damn fault!" attitude. I can only hope if the offending, by your intimation, officer is one of our tsp-ers you might post a bit more concern about him & his family.

Your compassion is not exactly over-whelming when it comes to lawmen, is it? Few of your Arizona posts have indicated you have any trust or respect for any of them - from the city traffic cop to the Border Patrol Officers.
You seem to be educating everyone how to be primed & ready for a stop.... You need to be able to `Show Those Guys a thing or two...'

And you know darn good & well, the pot is the least of the problems coming across the border.

And maybe, the runners will ease back while the Whole of our nation gets behind the BP with a bit more energy & determination -
- oh, wait (tactic learned from you, phil, fwm) - that would exclude you and those you chum with......... work unit, politico's, after-work fun timers ...
 
As a rule, those kind have always been soft on criminals, evil and protecting our country. They've always denigrated our military.
 
Darn good thing they passed that Arizona law requiring everyone to prove their citizenship. That will stop those guys from smuggling BALES of pot.

Perhaps legalizing pot would be far more effective in reducing events like this, don't ya think?
I think everyone knows what BOOTLEGGERS are. gangst.gif
 
As a rule, those kind have always been soft on criminals, evil and protecting our country. They've always denigrated our military.
Yeah! Those kind spend all their time snorting coke and torturing animals. And in their free time they make IEDs for Iraq. Those one-eyed one-horned flying purple-people eaters are the absolute WORST!
 
Your compassion is not exactly over-whelming when it comes to lawmen, is it? Few of your Arizona posts have indicated you have any trust or respect for any of them - from the city traffic cop to the Border Patrol Officers.

Compassion for lawmen? Sure. I have compassion for lawmen. I have no compassion for idiots who pass laws that don't do a thing for the real problem. If you note what I wrote, it wasn't a slam against those who enforce- it was a slam against those politicians who wrote the law that good lawmen now have to go out and enforce.


You seem to be educating everyone how to be primed & ready for a stop.... You need to be able to `Show Those Guys a thing or two...'
No- I am defending the rights of human beings in the United States. The rights under the Constitution. That are more and more being taken away in the name of "security".

Do you think it's ok for a law enforcement officer to pull you over for no reason? I don't. I don't think DUI roadblocks are within Constitutional boundaries either. Luckily, in my state, neither does my government. In other states it's not the same. That's not right. Either it's within, or not within, the guidelines of the Constitution. I can speak my mind, and in my state, thank goodness, the courts agree with my position. I won't be traveling to Arizona anymore. I was last there last year. I will do what I can to choose to go elsewhere, when I can.

And you know darn good & well, the pot is the least of the problems coming across the border.
But why then post in this thread, about a law enforcement officer being shot? He was shot because he found someone smuggling pot. This thread was about the Arizona law on immigration. That's chumming, if I ever saw it.


And maybe, the runners will ease back while the Whole of our nation gets behind the BP with a bit more energy & determination -
- oh, wait (tactic learned from you, phil, fwm) - that would exclude you and those you chum with......... work unit, politico's, after-work fun timers ...
How much is "enough" border patrol? 50,000? 500,000? No one has said what they think it will take to close the border.

My point is that much of the problems faced by our border patrol is because of the laws we now have.

People flood across the border in hopes to find a better life. Now, we can do one of three things here.

1. We can try and block the border- in which case it may take 500,000 border patrol agents to do. That has a price tag. Are you prepared to pay that kind of price tag? If so, then we need to get serious about it. If not, then it's all for show, not for real. There is nothing as senseless as putting lives on the line for political posturing and show. Our law enforcement officers deserve far better. No officer should be asked to do a job, and then not given the resources to do it with. Same as our military. If you want them to accomplish a mission, you better be prepared to give them every resource needed to fulfill the mission. That's not being done now for our Border Patrol and law enforcement officer community. Something about the price tag, I hear.

2. Or we can pass immigration reform legislation, that includes temporary worker visas, that allow people to come in and work. Costs far less that option #1. But you can't even bring that up in Congress without critics screaming.

3. Or you can try and raise the standard of living in other countries, so that not as many people want to come here. That was supposed to be one of the great benefits of free trade under NAFTA. Central American countries and Mexico wages were supposed to rise, and give less reason for folks to come here. That's how it was sold by the politicians at the time, anyway. How's that working out, anyway? Oh yea- Mexico's wages didn't rise. They went down.

Do you want to end smuggling of drugs across the border? It's easy to do. Simply legalize and tax it here, and the crime and violence will disappear. It won't cost taxpayers a dime. It will greatly enhance revenue for the government. But that solution isn't being talked about seriously. Why not? Why is pot illegal, anyway? Think about that.

Do you want to end people coming across the border in the dead of night? With no papers? How do you do that? Easy- give them a way to get legal papers. But that solution isn't being talked about seriously. Why is that?

No- I'm not about to give up Constitutional rights easily. I spent way too much time leaning them, thinking about them, and understanding them to simply turn them off in the name of law enforcement stops.

Law enforcement officers are people just like you and me. They have a job to do. So do I. I just hope they can do theirs within the bounds of the Constitution. When laws are passed which cross that line, I am going to speak up against it. That's just who I am.

You got a better idea on how to solve the problem of illegal immigrants? I'm all ears. But simply saying you should pass laws to arrest them if they have cars up on blocks in their yard, or if too many of them are crammed into an apartment, is nothing more than profiling, racism, and it's wrong.
 
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