Any Other Agnostics Out There?

malyla said:
Modern science has shown that we use 100% of our physical brains, just not all at the same time.

The 9/10ths not being used is indeed a long standing myth. But WV-girl's underlying message could not be overstated. The POTIENTIAL we have to use our brains is barely being tapped. ;)

Amazingly, during mediation a significant portion of the whole is active which did surprise me.
We did a study using Monks that have the most advanced methods of Mediation - and they typically mediate for hours and hours. We found the specific region of activity that dominated the mediative state was in the right upper front part of the brain. This region is most associated with POSITIVE THOUGHTS and the GENERAL SENSE OF WELL BEING.

Neurology is a fasinating subject. It's totally amazing; absolutely incredible. Just read a article about what makes a good liar. It turns out that they have more neural transmitters of a certain kind (I'll need to reread the article to remember exactly what transmitter). Fasinating stuff learning about our brains. We could easily do away with polygraph testing - and use Brain Imaging to confirm if someone is telling a lie.

In my experience, when the spirit and the body are at odds, sickness (physical or mental) results. That's beautiful and incredibly true. I think you and WV-girl are saying the same thing. When we allow the Spiritual to take control and are more in tune with the unseen yet very real aspect of existence - it results in the most HEALTHY STATE possible. The trick is to be comfortable in your body while being comfortable in the world.
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Thanks for your thoughts
 
Steady:

I'm with you, until the "Intelligent Design" idea. I believe God made the Universe so it is self-sustaining, and everything develops at its time. I don't think he created "special creatures" that do not fit the evolutionary process. The process itself is music, Man evolved in the time he fit in, as did everything else. It is not a flaw in the process that some did not survive - Earth evolves, changes, always. There is no perfection, nor ultimate creation, because that would imply stasis, which is flawed because it cannot evolve to the changing surroundings, to the destruction and creation that keeps our Universe adapting, and moving.

So, yes, I also follow Evolutionary Theory. With Science, we are trying to figure out how to work in the Universe, how to be responsible.

So far I haven't seen a true pattern - or anything to increase our knowledge of the Universe - in "Intelligent Design". "Intelligent Design" instead says, "You'll never understand some of these wonders, they will always be beyond your knowledge, there are things outside the pattern, notes thrown into the music." Which to me encourages throwing your hands up and taking the easy way out, and implies that God has to meddle in his own creation to make it work! That sounds like Man, not God - Man always has to meddle cause he makes mistakes.

"To everything there is a season" - even Man. And that is not a flaw in the music.
 
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wv-girl said:
I hope that we will someday use the other 9/10ths of the physical brain to further both realities.
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Modern science has shown that we use 100% of our physical brains, just not all at the same time. Amazingly, during mediation a significant portion of the whole is active which did surprise me. Neurology is a fasinating subject. Just read a article about what makes a good liar. It turns out that they have more neural transmitters of a certain kind (I'll need to reread the article to remember exactly what transmitter). Fasinating stuff learning about our brains.

In my experience, when the spirit and the body are at odds, sickness (physical or mental) results. The trick is to be comfortable in your body while being comfortable in the world.
 
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Silverbird said:
Some people ask me, how can I believe in the scientific method, and be Christian?

I have found that science proves God (Intellegent Design) more than anything else and that the Spiritual Experience awakens us to the Ultimate Truth.

To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility. As soon as we cooked our food, ignorance and bliss went away - or else we'd never learn from a forest fire.

A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe. And in doing this - and comparing these patterns to all life (humans, animals, trees and plants) we find a RHYTHM that is central to everything - the Theta Rhythm - which is the most fundamental aspect behind the interactions of the brain; which is the Base Rhythm of our Earth and thereby largely orchestrates the complex activities of the Oceans; and therefore is likely responsible for the complex activities in the various layers of the Sun.

The theta rhythm is simply a tool by which God is able to know all things and control all things - a tool designed to bring everything under one huge common theme.

Einstein's big mistake: "God does not roll dice" (no such thing as this Quantum Physics crazyness)
Silverbird - I'm impressed - really!! Yes we could say it was a mistake - which highlights 'To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility' The underlying basis of Einstein's refusal to except things as they are is because it went against the bondries of his belief in God. So his God was confined to a box - and he absolutely refused to believe that reality (or God) could be beyond the boundries of that box.

Quantum Physicists: Like dice, this seeming randomness has a pattern. Just because we can't see the dice doesn't mean we can't glimpse the results.

Old Church Thinking: The Earth is the center of the Universe. So we say. So it is
Reality: That dates back to Ptolemy. He was wrong, and furthermore, he was a pagan so it wasn't "as you said".

There are patterns we do not understand, there are notes in the music of the Universe that we cannot hear but are there, nonetheless, that we glimpse through experimentation and testing of theories. Beware of any mortal who says they've heard it all, or worse, expect God to change the song to save them.
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Will copy - paste - print this one. Thank you !
 
Steadygain said:
WV-girl,
This is beautiful and a thousand times over reinforces what I somehow knew in my heart was true of you. THANK YOU!

Faith is not a learned behavior.
There is a difference between Spiritual and physical - and in that sense I know exactly what you're saying. Faith is an experience that is life changing - an all (and awe) encompassing event.

Perhaps I am wrong, but as physical beings I believe Faith that is LIFE CHANGING - and encompasses every aspect of our being has to involve Physical Changes that occur in the brain. My first major research was defining this 'Born Again' experience in terms of Brain Chemistry. I was convinced that LOVE - on the level of 'falling in Love' AND overwhelming feelings of TRUST were the most defining aspects by which this experience occured. I found the specific part of the brain most responsible for both LOVE and TRUST occured at the most central region of PROCESSING - that area where the most vital and permanent information is routed to all the final areas for permanent storage. Nothing makes this area light up like 'LOVE' on the 'Falling in Love' level and the ultra feelings of TRUST.

So I would not argue with you. I would simply say that perhaps the EXPERIENCE on Spiritual Levels in a physical being has to involve the Brain - and thus the changes in the brain are hugely responsible for the permanent changes (changes that can only be known by those who have had a Spiritual Awakening)
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Steady,
We are spiritual beings that are "in residence" in physcial bodies. The spirit and the human body are at 'odds' with each other in that when one chooses to follow the Lord the spirit is in charge and you can control what the physical responses are and how to react to them. I do not, in any way, dispute your findings. As ones understanding grows, I am fascinated by all of the advances in the medical world. I hope that we will someday use the other 9/10ths of the physical brain to further both realities.

Silverbird said - "A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe."

So true. :)
 
wv-girl said:
Hi Everyone,

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.
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Amen wv-girl. :)

CB
 
wv-girl said:
Hi Everyone,
Steady,

Faith is not a learned behavior.
Let me just say that I did not learn to believe. It is a very personal relationship between spirtual beings. And from a very early age (around 4 or 5) is when I became aware of what my mother referred to as my imageary friend. For me, thoughout my life, he has always been there. I cannot begin to explain to non believers how I know what I know, but when you experience it there is no denying it.

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.

My best advice to anyone, is to find your quiet place, block out all of the outside influences, look into your heart, ask him your questions and relax and listen.
Click to expand...

WV-girl,
This is beautiful and a thousand times over reinforces what I somehow knew in my heart was true of you. THANK YOU!

Faith is not a learned behavior.
There is a difference between Spiritual and physical - and in that sense I know exactly what you're saying. Faith is an experience that is life changing - an all (and awe) encompassing event.

Perhaps I am wrong, but as physical beings I believe Faith that is LIFE CHANGING - and encompasses every aspect of our being has to involve Physical Changes that occur in the brain. My first major research was defining this 'Born Again' experience in terms of Brain Chemistry. I was convinced that LOVE - on the level of 'falling in Love' AND overwhelming feelings of TRUST were the most defining aspects by which this experience occured. I found the specific part of the brain most responsible for both LOVE and TRUST occured at the most central region of PROCESSING - that area where the most vital and permanent information is routed to all the final areas for permanent storage. Nothing makes this area light up like 'LOVE' on the 'Falling in Love' level and the ultra feelings of TRUST.

So I would not argue with you. I would simply say that perhaps the EXPERIENCE on Spiritual Levels in a physical being has to involve the Brain - and thus the changes in the brain are hugely responsible for the permanent changes (changes that can only be known by those who have had a Spiritual Awakening)
 
Some people ask me, how can I believe in the scientific method, and be Christian?

To embrace ignorance is to deny responsibility. As soon as we cooked our food, ignorance and bliss went away - or else we'd never learn from a forest fire. A Christian needs to be responsible, and watch the patterns of the Universe.

Einstein's big mistake: "God does not roll dice" (no such thing as this Quantum Physics crazyness)
Quantum Physicists: Like dice, this seeming randomness has a pattern. Just because we can't see the dice doesn't mean we can't glimpse the results.

Old Church Thinking: The Earth is the center of the Universe. So we say. So it is
Reality: That dates back to Ptolemy. He was wrong, and furthermore, he was a pagan so it wasn't "as you said".

There are patterns we do not understand, there are notes in the music of the Universe that we cannot hear but are there, nonetheless, that we glimpse through experimentation and testing of theories. Beware of any mortal who says they've heard it all, or worse, expect God to change the song to save them.
 
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Hello Miss Piggy,

Just answering the original question. I always tell people I'm agnostic, but I'm really trying to keep folks from getting riled-up because in reality I don't believe in a personal God at all. By some of the definitions of God that I observed in this thread, it makes me an atheist.

I don't care much for Bill Maher, but at the same time I'm a huge fan of Borat! Go figure?

PS. Where's that market bottom!? Its coming..
 
Steadygain said:
Then it's pretty much all those like my mother and father, Cayman's father, WV-girl, Lady and all the rest who became what they are and learned to believe and see things as they do.

What does that tell you?
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Hi Everyone,
Steady,

Faith is not a learned behavior.
Let me just say that I did not learn to believe. It is a very personal relationship between spirtual beings. And from a very early age (around 4 or 5) is when I became aware of what my mother referred to as my imageary friend. For me, thoughout my life, he has always been there. I cannot begin to explain to non believers how I know what I know, but when you experience it there is no denying it.

Just as you can never convince non-believers that he does exist, NO ONE will ever convince me he does not.

If anyone asks me, I will share my beliefs and experiences with them. If all they want to do is debate, then I follow the Lords lead and shake it off, like he says in the New Testament.

My best advice to anyone, is to find your quiet place, block out all of the outside influences, look into your heart, ask him your questions and relax and listen.
 
I actually had the misfortune of practicing some vigilantesim once myself so I know the feeling that is required. Now my heroine is Sooki Stackhouse of "True Blood".
 
Birchtree said:
malyla,

Dexter is my hero. What does that tell you?
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Haven't seen the show, but a friend has told me that the show in about a serial killer who preys on other serial killers. So, if someone kills and enjoys killing people who prey on the innocent, are they evil? Dexter seems to be saving lives at best or avenging deaths at worst. And if you feel that Dexter is a hero, then are you participating in (routing for) evil or are you aggreeing that the rule of law does not apply and it's ok to be a vigilante? Slippery slope with the vigilante issue. Sometimes hard to draw the line on who dies. But the idea of a vigilante taking the moral hit to protect the innocent is a very compeling idea. I would perfer the rule of law as I know what that is, but can anyone KNOW the moral compass of a killer? I wonder if Dexter is an agnostic.
 
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Malyla,

Sarah is my hero www.greenteadiary.com (my firstborn)

Then Emily (my second daughter)
Then Carrie (my last daughter)

Then it's pretty much all those like my mother and father, Cayman's father, WV-girl, Lady and all the rest who became what they are and learned to believe and see things as they do.

What does that tell you?

I'm not writting to challenge you - argue with you - or antagonize you. I'm saying this out of the deepest love and admiration because I have to believe you were born is a world created by God and therefore you are undoubtedly worthy of whatever respect I can offer.
 
Steadygain said:
I'm glad you believe he was a real man.
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HE WAS UNREAL!!!!:cheesy:
...

The only ones who know for sure are those that in total faith have died to themselves and completey found themselves in his spirit.
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Hey that's me!
So it all comes down to faith - but faith can not be proven to anyone else - and therefore who can know??
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You ever really look at a sunrise and think, "Wow, what are the chances of the sum of chances that led to a perfect situation to give me the luck to watch this blessed event?":)
If God is real - mankind would have to refer to God in terms that reduce God to our understanding. In all liklihood Male (or female) and all the things that make us different - do not apply to God.
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My belief is that when I see God face to face, it will not matter what form I percieve. It will only consist of eternal love.:cool:
 
tsptalk said:
Thanks budnipper. But no apologies necessary here. This thread, along with the election thread, came with a warning that anyone easily offended should stay away.
I don't think buster was offended anyway. He's pretty tough and seems to be just spreading the word. It's all good.
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Buster said:
I wish You all could see the smile on my face..I take nothing serious as the internet is hard to convey my smart ass joking tone of voice...It's just me, and like the aggies here..I won't change..:D
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Oh...in that case, I take my apology back! :nuts:
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