Where is my Bonus?

Hi CB,
This is the worst yet. I am hoping that Congress puts a stop to this unconstitutional act. Apparently no one in the house knows(or cares) what is in the constitution, they have lost their minds--what little they do have. I am NOT for the bailouts of any kind, but this action is very threatening to all of us. Where will it stop..the bailouts and the idiotesy(sp) of it all. If all of this crap has been done in just three months..I hate to think what four years from now will be like. God help us all.

Yeah wv-girl,

They've done this much financial damage and made these many attacks against the constitution in just 3 months, what's this country going to look like in 4 years. :worried: Hopefully in 2010, saner heads will be elected and will regain control of the house. Yes they have lost their minds, because they know how guilty they are in starting this whole mess.

We haven't since the worse. Just wait until bHo's taxes kick in, (for those that believe his $250K crap, we'll just call it massive inflation and the cost of everything will go up) along with the massive inflation almost all the economists are calling for, then we'll definately know what pain is.

One of the UK papers, I believe the Telegraph, had an article how we are becoming the laughing stock of the world because of the chaos of our current administration and the way we are handling the financial situation.

But they also liked it ( I believe it was the same article, maybe not) because we are chasing more of our business's to other countries because of our treatment of business' and the arbritary way we are inforcing the laws and the punitive taxing. Heck, in a couple of years the libs will be blaming Bush for the jobs that have been lost to overseas. They don't have the intellect to grasp, that if you have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, well jobs are going elswhere.

All us little folks can do is save as much as possible, so you may have something left, after bHo steals your money to give to his unproductive pals. I believe, thoug I'll continue to invest in our ROTH's and TSP (5%), that we need to invest in tangible items, that can't be taxed so to speak. Precisous metals, off line guns, stuff like that. Somewhere I have the addy of a Canadian gold company that will not report your gold purchases, but I haven't investigated that any further.

We're really handcuffed on our flexibility to diversify our saving to any great degree, but maybe the sooner and younger folks do, the better off they'll be.

It's just something that is on it's way and all we can do is study and prepare the best we can for it. Most of us, will probably have to put off retirement (me included) for another year or 2 to offset the blatant redistribution of wealth, bHo's word not mine. Hey that sounds so much like socialism. :laugh:

Well it's getting daylight and I got a big hickory to take out my frustrations on. Nothing like hard physical labor to take your mind off the chaos in DC.

CB
 
My feelings exactly about what they did yesterday on the Taxes, what a bunch of hooey (for the more genteel ;) ). Congress got us into this mess and aren't man enough to fess up.

And I'm tired of BHO and congress acting like a fly on a horse turd, by trying to do everything at once, that's why no one read that Stimulus/welfare package that is going to come back and haunt us for decades. Congress snuck some much unknown stuff into it. Do one thing at a time and do it right. They haven't done anything right yet, except CYA and we all know they are doing that and not very well either. :laugh:

We need to investigate Congress like they are investigating everyone, they are just as guilty. :mad:

CB
Hi CB,
This is the worst yet. I am hoping that Congress puts a stop to this unconstitutional act. Apparently no one in the house knows(or cares) what is in the constitution, they have lost their minds--what little they do have. I am NOT for the bailouts of any kind, but this action is very threatening to all of us. Where will it stop..the bailouts and the idiotesy(sp) of it all. If all of this crap has been done in just three months..I hate to think what four years from now will be like. God help us all.
 
Hell CB, lets just fire 'em:laugh:

PinkSlip.jpg


http://www.firecongress.org/
 
And the TAX they beat their chest's over and passed yesterday will not
stand up in court ! Just another Dog & Pony Show ! The politicians gave
out our money without preperation, enough knowledge, clarity etc.....:mad:
CYA,,,, I think so ! The Fox is watch'n the Hen House ! (Daddy Reference)

Sorry if off topic abit, I had to write it somewhere :-)

My feelings exactly about what they did yesterday on the Taxes, what a bunch of hooey (for the more genteel ;) ). Congress got us into this mess and aren't man enough to fess up.

And I'm tired of BHO and congress acting like a fly on a horse turd, by trying to do everything at once, that's why no one read that Stimulus/welfare package that is going to come back and haunt us for decades. Congress snuck some much unknown stuff into it. Do one thing at a time and do it right. They haven't done anything right yet, except CYA and we all know they are doing that and not very well either. :laugh:

We need to investigate Congress like they are investigating everyone, they are just as guilty. :mad:

CB
 
Yep Show me,

Every poll showed the people didn't want the bailouts, but the pols had already been signed sealed and delivered to the AIG's and Big Finance. I would hope that folks would vote out the incumbent, but I have no faith in the American people even remembering this, come next election.

Mark my words, BHO/teleprompter will have the market manipulated, such that all his boy's butts will be covered and folks will be getting those welfare checks and the market will be up, so nothing will change.

The only change we can hope for is term limits. Heck we only allow a Pres 2 limits, the same should be sufficient for Congress.

CB

And the TAX they beat their chest's over and passed yesterday will not
stand up in court ! Just another Dog & Pony Show ! The politicians gave
out our money without preperation, enough knowledge, clarity etc.....:mad:
CYA,,,, I think so ! The Fox is watch'n the Hen House ! (Daddy Reference)

Sorry if off topic abit, I had to write it somewhere :-)
 
The Feds did think and that makes it worse. Back in November when everyone wrote into the politicians the peoples will was known in a very loud and distinct way. NO BAIL OUT! The politicians ignored that and did what THEY wanted to do instead of the will of the people. They are owned by the same people that got us in this mess and all they are doing now is spinning and posturing to save some face.

Next election vote them all out! It doesn't matter who the other person is running, vote the incumbent out. Send a clear message that if you blow off the will of the people you will be replaced.

Yep Show me,

Every poll showed the people didn't want the bailouts, but the pols had already been signed sealed and delivered to the AIG's and Big Finance. I would hope that folks would vote out the incumbent, but I have no faith in the American people even remembering this, come next election.

Mark my words, BHO/teleprompter will have the market manipulated, such that all his boy's butts will be covered and folks will be getting those welfare checks and the market will be up, so nothing will change.

The only change we can hope for is term limits. Heck we only allow a Pres 2 limits, the same should be sufficient for Congress.

CB
 
The Feds didn't think, that's our problem and now they are playing CYA time, because a bucnch of them are neck deep in this mess namely, Frank and Dodd.

I've sharpened the tines on my pitchfork. :nuts:

CB

The Feds did think and that makes it worse. Back in November when everyone wrote into the politicians the peoples will was known in a very loud and distinct way. NO BAIL OUT! The politicians ignored that and did what THEY wanted to do instead of the will of the people. They are owned by the same people that got us in this mess and all they are doing now is spinning and posturing to save some face.

Next election vote them all out! It doesn't matter who the other person is running, vote the incumbent out. Send a clear message that if you blow off the will of the people you will be replaced.
 
What Did the Feds Think When They Gave AIG Money?
By Bill Bonner
March 19th, 2009

"Stone him to death!"

No kidding. Dilapidation may be coming back into style. That's what one of Madoff's victims proposed in front of the courthouse.

We're in the "anger" stage, writes John Authers in the Financial Times. No more denial...now, people want blood.

After the South Sea Bubble blew up, in the 18th century, the Walpole government was faced with similar anger. It seized the property of the company's directors and used it to pay off the victims. Then, a resolution was proposed in Parliament by which the bankers involved in the scandal would be tied up in sacks filled with snakes and tipped into the Thames River.

So far, Congress has not proposed stoning Fannie Mae or sending AIG directors to the bottom of the Potomac. But it must be warming to the idea.

"Congress is looking for heads to cut off," says the French press.

One member of Congress - Senator Grassley - retreated from his call for AIG executives to commit suicide. It would be all right with him if they just showed a little contrition, he says now.

But all over the world - and especially in Washington DC - the mobs are out in the streets with liquor on their breath and ropes in their hands.

The proximate cause of this anger is the bonuses paid out by AIG - after the company got a taxpayer bailout of $170 billion. According to the New York Attorney General, 73 AIG execs got $1 million + bonus checks.
"Livid Democrats demand AIG return bailout bonuses," says a headline in today's financial press.

We hope you realize, dear reader, that all of this, of course, is just a cynical sideshow. It's a distraction...a self-indulgent tantrum; the real story lies elsewhere...which we'll come to in a minute.

First, the rally is still going on. Stocks have recovered about 10% of their losses so far. And yesterday, the Dow rose another 178 points.

Don't forget, this is not a new bull market. It is a bear trap...a rebound in an on-going bear market. After this phase of anger passes...people will probably feel that the worst is behind us. They'll squint and see a "light at the end of the tunnel." Later on, they'll realize that the light is an on-coming freight train!

Yesterday's up-move was traced to a surprising report from the housing industry.

"Housing starts unexpectedly increase on condos," explains a Bloomberg headline.

And today, the Fed meets. Analysts are betting that the Fed will begin more "massive buying" of assets - especially U.S. Treasury bonds - in order to get more money into the system.

All the news is not favorable, of course. Auto loan delinquency rates are running 9% ahead of last year. Thornburg Mortgage is apparently headed towards Chapter 11. Caterpillar says it will lay off more than 2,000 workers; less construction means less need for heavy equipment. And AMEX says even its best customers are falling behind on their bills.

But let's go back to into the theatre and take our seats: The politicians give money to their pet projects...and then pretend to be outraged when the companies use it to pay their bills. Among their bills were billions in payments to other companies -notably Goldman Sachs, former employer and major source of wealth for the man who designed the bailout, Hank Paulson - and thousands of employment contracts with AIG's salarymen.

What did the feds think when they gave AIG the money? That they were donating to charity?

No, dear reader...the fix was in. And it's still in. And while the press and politicians huff about a few million in bonuses to AIG's hacks, billions more is being paid out to AIG's counterparties.

It's not only a waste of money, says our old friend Jim Rogers, the bailouts actually retard a recovery. How so? In the obvious way. Like any kind of subsidy or welfare payment, they invite people to keep doing what they've been doing - no matter how unproductive it is. Instead of letting AIG and its bosses and counterparties go broke, the feds give the whole brain-dead system a transfusion of taxpayers' money. So the executives don't have to go out and find other work. And AIG can continue peddling its mortgage insurance. And its counterparties, too, are protected from their mistakes.

Of course, the government doesn't want to raise taxes in order to keep these incompetents in business, so it bleeds the money from the next generation of taxpayers - who aren't around to protest. Instead of letting the debt be reduced by the natural process of deflationary default, in other words, the government adds more debt.

Already, as we pointed out yesterday, there's about $20 trillion worth of debt debris that must be brushed aside before the economy can begin rebuilding on a solid foundation. At the present rate of savings, it will take about 45 years to do the job. Which suggests to us that it ain't gonna happen. We don't think the feds can sit still that long. And they're not sitting still now. In fact, they're adding to the public debt faster than the private debt is getting paid down.

By our calculations, the private economy is paying off about $420 billion - net - per year. (Just based on higher rates of saving...not counting write-downs, and defaults.) But the federal deficit is expected to run to $2 trillion! In other words, the feds are adding debt 4 times faster than the private sector is paying it down.

This is not a formula for putting this problem behind us. Instead, it just pushes it ahead.

The Feds didn't think, that's our problem and now they are playing CYA time, because a bucnch of them are neck deep in this mess namely, Frank and Dodd.

I've sharpened the tines on my pitchfork. :nuts:

CB
 
What Did the Feds Think When They Gave AIG Money?
By Bill Bonner
March 19th, 2009

"Stone him to death!"

No kidding. Dilapidation may be coming back into style. That's what one of Madoff's victims proposed in front of the courthouse.

We're in the "anger" stage, writes John Authers in the Financial Times. No more denial...now, people want blood.

After the South Sea Bubble blew up, in the 18th century, the Walpole government was faced with similar anger. It seized the property of the company's directors and used it to pay off the victims. Then, a resolution was proposed in Parliament by which the bankers involved in the scandal would be tied up in sacks filled with snakes and tipped into the Thames River.

So far, Congress has not proposed stoning Fannie Mae or sending AIG directors to the bottom of the Potomac. But it must be warming to the idea.

"Congress is looking for heads to cut off," says the French press.

One member of Congress - Senator Grassley - retreated from his call for AIG executives to commit suicide. It would be all right with him if they just showed a little contrition, he says now.

But all over the world - and especially in Washington DC - the mobs are out in the streets with liquor on their breath and ropes in their hands.

The proximate cause of this anger is the bonuses paid out by AIG - after the company got a taxpayer bailout of $170 billion. According to the New York Attorney General, 73 AIG execs got $1 million + bonus checks.
"Livid Democrats demand AIG return bailout bonuses," says a headline in today's financial press.

We hope you realize, dear reader, that all of this, of course, is just a cynical sideshow. It's a distraction...a self-indulgent tantrum; the real story lies elsewhere...which we'll come to in a minute.

First, the rally is still going on. Stocks have recovered about 10% of their losses so far. And yesterday, the Dow rose another 178 points.

Don't forget, this is not a new bull market. It is a bear trap...a rebound in an on-going bear market. After this phase of anger passes...people will probably feel that the worst is behind us. They'll squint and see a "light at the end of the tunnel." Later on, they'll realize that the light is an on-coming freight train!

Yesterday's up-move was traced to a surprising report from the housing industry.

"Housing starts unexpectedly increase on condos," explains a Bloomberg headline.

And today, the Fed meets. Analysts are betting that the Fed will begin more "massive buying" of assets - especially U.S. Treasury bonds - in order to get more money into the system.

All the news is not favorable, of course. Auto loan delinquency rates are running 9% ahead of last year. Thornburg Mortgage is apparently headed towards Chapter 11. Caterpillar says it will lay off more than 2,000 workers; less construction means less need for heavy equipment. And AMEX says even its best customers are falling behind on their bills.

But let's go back to into the theatre and take our seats: The politicians give money to their pet projects...and then pretend to be outraged when the companies use it to pay their bills. Among their bills were billions in payments to other companies -notably Goldman Sachs, former employer and major source of wealth for the man who designed the bailout, Hank Paulson - and thousands of employment contracts with AIG's salarymen.

What did the feds think when they gave AIG the money? That they were donating to charity?

No, dear reader...the fix was in. And it's still in. And while the press and politicians huff about a few million in bonuses to AIG's hacks, billions more is being paid out to AIG's counterparties.

It's not only a waste of money, says our old friend Jim Rogers, the bailouts actually retard a recovery. How so? In the obvious way. Like any kind of subsidy or welfare payment, they invite people to keep doing what they've been doing - no matter how unproductive it is. Instead of letting AIG and its bosses and counterparties go broke, the feds give the whole brain-dead system a transfusion of taxpayers' money. So the executives don't have to go out and find other work. And AIG can continue peddling its mortgage insurance. And its counterparties, too, are protected from their mistakes.

Of course, the government doesn't want to raise taxes in order to keep these incompetents in business, so it bleeds the money from the next generation of taxpayers - who aren't around to protest. Instead of letting the debt be reduced by the natural process of deflationary default, in other words, the government adds more debt.

Already, as we pointed out yesterday, there's about $20 trillion worth of debt debris that must be brushed aside before the economy can begin rebuilding on a solid foundation. At the present rate of savings, it will take about 45 years to do the job. Which suggests to us that it ain't gonna happen. We don't think the feds can sit still that long. And they're not sitting still now. In fact, they're adding to the public debt faster than the private debt is getting paid down.

By our calculations, the private economy is paying off about $420 billion - net - per year. (Just based on higher rates of saving...not counting write-downs, and defaults.) But the federal deficit is expected to run to $2 trillion! In other words, the feds are adding debt 4 times faster than the private sector is paying it down.

This is not a formula for putting this problem behind us. Instead, it just pushes it ahead.
 

..What exactly did these "executives" do to deserve bonuses?
..What kind of contract with these "excellent" executives would be "binding" after that company filed bankruptcy?
..If AIG's reason for paying these ridiculous bonuses is to "retain" these people due to their "value" to the company,...​


Agree wit bn

Some truth (clairity) is needed in these bonus payouts....

1a. Who recieved the bonuses??
1a. What did the contracts actually say??
1b. Was there a performance criteria??

2. Who approved the bonuses, under who's authority?

3. How many "bonus" people were retained, how many were lost?​
 
It is always good when you can pay yourself a bonus using other peoples money. Look at the ownership of AIG compared to the leaders of the government.
 
I think budnipper hit the nail on the head it's hush money to keep everybody involved quiet. If these guys were fired they might talk
and we might see some jail time for the masterminds behind the derivative scam. I really don't think you need the creators of the derivatives there to "unwind them" just a good accountant. I'm just a nuclear engineer so for half of there bonus check (500K) I'll offer to do it.
 
How about a new approach. No more bailout money at all for AIG. Cut our losses as taxpayers and let them sink.:toung:

I've got no problem with cutting off all funds to failing companies and let the strong survive, but that's capitalism and this government aims to turn this country into a socialist country, so I'm not going to hold my breath. At least our money will be worth something, because when inflation hits, our money is going to be worthless, but then Uncle Sugar will be there to run our lifes and wipe our butts for us. :laugh:

The Feds have been stealthly attacking our 2nd amendment rights by destroying fired brass casings by turning them into scrap metal under the guise of saying that the Department of Defense had placed small arms cartridge cases on its list of sensitive munitions items as part of an overall effort to ensure national security is not jeopardized in the sale of any Defense property. How does turning them into scrap ensure national security is not jeopardized? This was .223 and .308 ammunition. Hunters know what this caliber is used for. Thank goodness for the Senators from the state of Montana stepping in and putting a halt to this obvious end around attempt to gut the 2nd amendment. :D

BHO, well his puppet master, and his thugs must really think we are stupid, trying to sneak this thru. This is just a downright blatant attack on the 2nd amendment thru the back door. I realize that alot of folks could care less about the 2nd amendment, but disarming the citizenry is the first step towards dictatorship, why the heck do you think our founding fathersput it in the Constitution right after Freedom of speech, they had witnessed what could happen. And after the 2nd, they'll just get more brazen abouttheir plans, cause they'll see that the people will just go belly up, if it doesn't affect them. That's sad.

What else is going on that we are unaware of? :mad: We're going to wake up one morning and wonder how we got here, but I sure that there are alot of pople that wouldn't care if the Constitution is gutted as long as they get their welfare checks and entitlements from their keepers.

CB
 
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That would have been a viable position prior to handing money over to them. But after that has happened its too late.

Its not like poker where pot odds can dictate how much to throw in for a given hand. The poker analogy to bailouts would be something closer to this: the government, with unlimited chips, blind raises the ante into a position that forces them also to be pot committed.

(Even thats not exactly right because with unlimited chips, you should never be pot committed. But it gets the idea across.)
Reminds me of a Kenny Rogers song...and the government didn't know when to fold 'em!
 
How about a new approach. No more bailout money at all for AIG. Cut our losses as taxpayers and let them sink.:toung:
That would have been a viable position prior to handing money over to them. But after that has happened its too late.

Its not like poker where pot odds can dictate how much to throw in for a given hand. The poker analogy to bailouts would be something closer to this: the government, with unlimited chips, blind raises the ante into a position that forces them also to be pot committed.

(Even thats not exactly right because with unlimited chips, you should never be pot committed. But it gets the idea across.)
 
I've been against everyone of these bailouts from Tarp 1 to Tarp Infinitum, the Big 3 bailout, Subprime bailout, etc. I don't believe in using tax payers money to bail out stupidity, greed and irresponsibility. :mad:

Having said all of that, I agree with ChemEng, it was Congress that screwed the pooch on the AIG bailout, by not putting in any contingencies, that would protect OUR money, not the Gov'ts money like Dodd et al are calling it. All I can figure is all the lawyers in Congress couldn't pass the bar, since none of them had any sense in wrting this contract. Dang, I could've written a better contract than those knuckleheads in Congress, I guess none of those idiots have heard of a performance contract.

Unfortunately, we have to honor this deal and we can't have Congress try to break another Constituional amendment, by making null and void any contracts that might come into play in this whole CF.

And I believe we're talking about .1 of 1% in bonuses aren't we? $168 Billion bailout approx $168 million in bonuses. Shoot if that's all we're talking about lets throw a bunch of Pols in jail for wasting more money than that. :laugh: And that jerk Grassley calling for them to commit suicide. What leadership we have. :rolleyes:

No it sure doesn't look or feel good but, we're stuck with it, because if Congress or BHO break any contracts, then the camel will get his nose even further under the tent and any contract that Congress doesn't like, they just void it.

We should've have never started wasting taxpayers dollars at the start and let the chips fall where they may and start over from there.

CB

How about a new approach. No more bailout money at all for AIG. Cut our losses as taxpayers and let them sink.:toung:
 
Two Faced: Dodd Protected Bonuses, Now He Wants Them Out


Democratic Sen. Christopher Dodd on Monday criticized the bonuses given to executives of American International Group Inc. and suggested that the government could tax the recipients to recoup some or all of the payouts.

But it was Dodd who inserted language — known as the Dodd amendment — in the $787 billion stimulus bill that allowed all bonuses awarded before February 11, 2009, to be paid to AIG executives. That very amendment, which is now law, is now the chief hurdle to government officials who want to recover that money.

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/chris_dodd_bonuses/2009/03/17/192860.html

Him and Barney Frank bought need to be investigated, cause they are 2 of the most corrupts pols in DC, but I'm sure others will give them a run for their money. What Fricking hypocrasy and the liberal MSM doesn't have the nads nor the ethics to call these out out. :mad:

If the MSM would do there job, alot of this financial crisis crap would come to an end. It's so sad the state the country is in. :(

The Feds are doing nothing but manipulating the market these days and us little guys will be the ones left with no chair to sit in when the music stops.

CB
 
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I'm at a disadvantage concerning the extent of the damages which
would've resulted by doing nothing. ie...Bailouts and Stimulus. I find
it interesting how the Politicians blame everyone and everything but
themselves. Lies, Theft and Power is just plain sickening. :sick: Whether
its on the Hill, Main Street or Wall Street,,,,,,, It's hard to believe in
any system that's hurting my family and future generations to come.
If Senators, Congressmen, CEO's and Executive Branch Officials were
going to jail, "some" of my confidence would be restored, but I won't
hold my breath cause it simply won't happen. :mad:
 
I've been against everyone of these bailouts from Tarp 1 to Tarp Infinitum, the Big 3 bailout, Subprime bailout, etc. I don't believe in using tax payers money to bail out stupidity, greed and irresponsibility. :mad:

Having said all of that, I agree with ChemEng, it was Congress that screwed the pooch on the AIG bailout, by not putting in any contingencies, that would protect OUR money, not the Gov'ts money like Dodd et al are calling it. All I can figure is all the lawyers in Congress couldn't pass the bar, since none of them had any sense in wrting this contract. Dang, I could've written a better contract than those knuckleheads in Congress, I guess none of those idiots have heard of a performance contract.

Unfortunately, we have to honor this deal and we can't have Congress try to break another Constituional amendment, by making null and void any contracts that might come into play in this whole CF.

And I believe we're talking about .1 of 1% in bonuses aren't we? $168 Billion bailout approx $168 million in bonuses. Shoot if that's all we're talking about lets throw a bunch of Pols in jail for wasting more money than that. :laugh: And that jerk Grassley calling for them to commit suicide. What leadership we have. :rolleyes:

No it sure doesn't look or feel good but, we're stuck with it, because if Congress or BHO break any contracts, then the camel will get his nose even further under the tent and any contract that Congress doesn't like, they just void it.

We should've have never started wasting taxpayers dollars at the start and let the chips fall where they may and start over from there.

CB
 
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