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What YOU can do to fight back - IFT limit
- Thread starter James48843
- Start date
Wildboar53
Member
Paladin,
You do indeed have a way with words. I too will be using your well put arguements in my contacts with those around me not yet aware of the TSP's proposal.
ATCJeff
Well-known member
Here is an important fact that needs to be addressed by our letters.
TSP officials keep referring to the so called 3,000 account holders that are driving up trading cost. I would say that most of these members are nearing retirement and now are actively managing their accounts. I believe I read that most of these accounts are over $300,000.
TSP says the L funds re-balancing is a small fraction of the overall trading cost. Move forward in time 20 years from now, the L funds will be a bigger trading cost then the 3,000 members are now. Were talking over 500,000 account holders are in the L funds. This number will grow along with their account balances, especially if they restrict our number of IFT's. What will TSP officials do then?
Something to ponder.
TSP officials keep referring to the so called 3,000 account holders that are driving up trading cost. I would say that most of these members are nearing retirement and now are actively managing their accounts. I believe I read that most of these accounts are over $300,000.
TSP says the L funds re-balancing is a small fraction of the overall trading cost. Move forward in time 20 years from now, the L funds will be a bigger trading cost then the 3,000 members are now. Were talking over 500,000 account holders are in the L funds. This number will grow along with their account balances, especially if they restrict our number of IFT's. What will TSP officials do then?
Something to ponder.
sugarandspice
Well-known member
These kind of responses are extremely deceptive from people who represent other people.
He asked questions to get clarification. He did not ask questions to debate, argue, or seek change or suggest change.
This might be an example.
ETAC Member : "What exactly do you mean by 2 trades a month, is it 24 a year?"
FRTIB: "Yes that what it averages to."
ETAC Member: "Oh OK I just wanted to clarify that. Thanks." "And 1 more thing if I may,
Is it true that these 3000 tsp traders are really driving up the cost for all members or can it be related to something else?"
FRTIB: "Yes its true and it is not anything else."
ETAC Member: "Well that clears alot up for me. Thank you for your clarification. I have no other issues that need to be clarified at this time."
The truth is he didn't make any waves. But wanted to "appear" like he addressed concerns.
Getting clarification can be done by the monkeys. It only means that you don't understand something.
i would love to see the information that he gets from the thrift board. is there a way to get that infromation in a reasonable amount of time
wv-girl
Member
Please 'splain the procedure of the Federal Register? Am I to understand that ONLY comments can be made? What good does that do? Seems that by the time it is published it will be too late?
tia
Miss_Piggy
Member
Not to suggest it is all an easy process to understand but check this site for a beginning understanding. Basically when the TSP Board decides what course of action they want to take they will publish it as a Proposed Rule (PR) and those affected will have time to submit their comments/criticisms before the PR is adopted as a Final Rule (FR).
How can the public participate in rulemaking?
Citizens have a right to express their views before an agency adopts final rules Each Federal Register document tells you:
- Whether comments are requested
- How, when and where to comment
- Type neatly and cite rulemaking by docket number and other identifying information (subject heading; FR cite)
- Include your name and address
- Follow directions—agency may ask you to respond to specific questions or label comments with CFR parts or section numbers
- Explain why you agree or disagree; suggest alternatives and substitute language for your requested changes
wv-girl
Member
Thanks for the info(I think). But the real question remains.. does the public suggestions/comments acutally affect the pr outcom? At the very least can it be delayed? Do they really consider our opinions before rubber stamping it? Has there ever been a case where there was such major opposition that a pr was actually dropped?
Miss_Piggy
Member
Beyond my scope of knowledge.
Stoplight
Active member
WV-Girl, Miss Piggy, and all,
Having been involved in some Agency rule-making in the past, I may have something to contribute here (cause it’s certainly not my investing prowess !
)First, my disclaimers :
1. I’ve only been involved on the fringes, usually from just the technical side....never been deeply involved by being one of the "inside the Beltway"-types.
2. Every Agency does things a little different....my experience may not match how the Board does their rule making.
Anyway, here are my comments :
For a good basic review of the rule making process, as well as current and past rule making, there is a good gov’t site here : www.regulations.gov Check out the FAQ under "How to Use This Site" for basic info on the process, etc.
It’s not mandatory that an Agency use this site, but many do....I see the FRTIB (Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board) DOES have many items posted...you can do a search on "FRTIB" to see ‘em
The Bad News :
Although every comment should be addressed, very rarely (if ever !) do individual comments to the docket carry much weight. Usually, all the comments that come in and raise the same issue on the proposal are lumped together, and addressed with one response....volume/number of responses making a point doesn’t seem to matter. That one response is usually targeted to support the rule making’s conclusion...which makes sense (if you think about it objectively), since the "goal" is to refute the point, not address the number of responses !
Lawyers control the process (surprise, surprise !) The "wordsmithing" is unbelievable !
The Good News
The web site noted above has an alert notification one can sign up for, so we should be able to find out when the FRTIB posts their proposal (assuming they use the site this time !) Also, comments to the docket can be submitted on-line, making it easier for us to submit our concerns.
A typical rule making affects an Agency’s area of operation, and thus generate a relatively small number of responses.....since the changes by the FRTIB affect ALL Fed employees, and retirees, I can see a boatload of comments to the docket coming in (BUT....see above !)
In my experience, comments from organizations (like the ETAC, unions, etc) have more impact than individual comments.
All rule-making that I’ve been involved with has had to go through OMB for "approval" or sign off...that may be another avenue to make us heard, by contacting OMB...just a guess, though.
This is a political process ! The FRTIB is a "political" body... IMHO, one question from a Congress member (House or Senate) is worth way more than either an individual comment OR an organizational comment ! The point being....while it’s great to contact the FRTIB or the reps on the ETAC, you might also consider contacting your elected rep to Congress....particularly in those areas that have a large number of Fed employees, like Maryland and Virginia (and who seem to be particularly sensitive when they start dorking around with Fed employees !) Also, when the head of an Agency is a political appointee, and they are questioned by Congress, they become much more sensitive to which way the political wind is blowing....and may "sit" on the rule-making until the crap blows over, or kill it altogether....
Anyway, I hope this helps.....
Stoplight...
What we can do to fight back:
1. You can take the last newsletter (very informative) at www.tspshareholder.org and send it to every federal employee you know.
2. We need to write our Senators and Congressmen, but ESPECIALLY the ones on the following committees that have direct oversight on TSP:
a. Senate Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia
b. House Subcommittee on Federal Workforce, Postal Service, and the District of Columbia
The members for the Senate Subcommitte are: Daniel K. Akaka Chairman (D-HI) George V. Voinovich Ranking Member (R-OH) Carl Levin (D-MI) Ted Stevens (R-AK) Thomas R. Carper (D-DE) Tom Coburn (R-OK) Mark L. Pryor (D-AR) John Warner (R-VA) Mary L. Landrieu (D-LA)
The members of the House Subcommittee are: Danny K. Davis, Chairman, Eleanor Holmes Norton, John P. Sarbanes, Elijah E. Cummings, Dennis J.Kucinich, Wm. Lacy Clay, Stephen F. Lynch, Kenny Marchant, John M. McHugh John L. Mica, Darrell E. Issa, Jim Jordan
The Senate members all accept email from anyone. The House members only accept email from the zip codes they serve. But a short letter with a copy of the most recent newsletter attached would be very helpful.
1. You can take the last newsletter (very informative) at www.tspshareholder.org and send it to every federal employee you know.
2. We need to write our Senators and Congressmen, but ESPECIALLY the ones on the following committees that have direct oversight on TSP:
a. Senate Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia
b. House Subcommittee on Federal Workforce, Postal Service, and the District of Columbia
The members for the Senate Subcommitte are: Daniel K. Akaka Chairman (D-HI) George V. Voinovich Ranking Member (R-OH) Carl Levin (D-MI) Ted Stevens (R-AK) Thomas R. Carper (D-DE) Tom Coburn (R-OK) Mark L. Pryor (D-AR) John Warner (R-VA) Mary L. Landrieu (D-LA)
The members of the House Subcommittee are: Danny K. Davis, Chairman, Eleanor Holmes Norton, John P. Sarbanes, Elijah E. Cummings, Dennis J.Kucinich, Wm. Lacy Clay, Stephen F. Lynch, Kenny Marchant, John M. McHugh John L. Mica, Darrell E. Issa, Jim Jordan
The Senate members all accept email from anyone. The House members only accept email from the zip codes they serve. But a short letter with a copy of the most recent newsletter attached would be very helpful.
Stoplight - I went to the www.regulations.gov website and attempted to set up an e-mail notification for any proposed rule postings by FRTIB....but was unable to figure out how to do it. When you click on "e-mail notifications", it takes you to a narrative that explains what that means, but no instructions on how to actually set it up!! Can you help? I think it is very important that many of us get set up for this, so that we know as soon as FRTIB posts something related to the IFT restriction proposed rule. Thanks.
ayla
Member
I registered for some type of notification - not sure though because it isn't clear whether I've registered for all pertinent FRTIB notifications or just the one I clicked on.
I went to: http://www.regulations.gov
Next, I did a search for FRTIB
Next, I found the little icon that looks like an envelope.
Next, I clicked on the envelope icon and got a screen requesting my email and which type of notices I wanted. I clicked all of them (referring to FRTIB).
Now the real confusion lies in the fact that there is a little envelope icon by every single event such as "sunshine act" (which I don't care about). I found an entry for "Meetings: Employee Thrift Advisory Council " even though it was dated for 2006 and clicked on the "envelope Icon" close by. Then filled in the form and checked all boxes and clicked on "submit".
My intuition tells me that because I check all boxes, that will cover everything and not just the initial box for "meetings" that I clicked but there is no guarantee that this is remotely like an intuitive process.
Got a notice on the screen that I would be emailed something in order to complete my registration. That was 15 minutes ago and I haven't been emailed anything yet so this isn't an "instantaneous" process. I'll post if I get something.
tinyrul:
http://tinyurl.com/yt97on
Url with embedded carriage return in case the tiny URL above expires:
http://www.regulations.gov/
fdmspublic/component/main?main=Notification&d=FRTIB-2006-000
I went to: http://www.regulations.gov
Next, I did a search for FRTIB
Next, I found the little icon that looks like an envelope.
Next, I clicked on the envelope icon and got a screen requesting my email and which type of notices I wanted. I clicked all of them (referring to FRTIB).
Now the real confusion lies in the fact that there is a little envelope icon by every single event such as "sunshine act" (which I don't care about). I found an entry for "Meetings: Employee Thrift Advisory Council " even though it was dated for 2006 and clicked on the "envelope Icon" close by. Then filled in the form and checked all boxes and clicked on "submit".
My intuition tells me that because I check all boxes, that will cover everything and not just the initial box for "meetings" that I clicked but there is no guarantee that this is remotely like an intuitive process.
Got a notice on the screen that I would be emailed something in order to complete my registration. That was 15 minutes ago and I haven't been emailed anything yet so this isn't an "instantaneous" process. I'll post if I get something.
tinyrul:
http://tinyurl.com/yt97on
Url with embedded carriage return in case the tiny URL above expires:
http://www.regulations.gov/
fdmspublic/component/main?main=Notification&d=FRTIB-2006-000
Stoplight
Active member
Show-me: Not sure where you got the info that it'll be a 60 day comment period.....in my experience, it can be 30....it can be 90....or whatever the Agency decides ! It's like a personnel vacancy announcement where the Agency already has someone picked....they advertise it for the bare minimum, and hope nobody with a "veteran's preference" applies
Also, "flood them with comments" can be easily addressed if the "flood" all says the same thing (see my other post !)
Thanks for the work you do !
Stoplight...
Stoplight
Active member
Thanks for the kind words, pogo ! I'm certainly NOT someone to provide advice to "us" on which way to go with this ! All I can do is provide my experience to the discussion, and collectively, we do what we think needs to be done
The beauty of this MB is that we DO have many folks with a wealth of knowledge, in a ton of different areas, from many different agencies....AND they are willing to share with the rest of us ! I'm just happy to kick in what little I can !
Stoplight...
Stoplight
Active member
RAE,
Sorry....I guess it's a case of me posting my note before I actually checked out how to do it, and did it myself !
I see what you're saying....see below !
I registered for some type of notification - not sure though because it isn't clear whether I've registered for all pertinent FRTIB notifications or just the one I clicked on.
I went to: http://www.regulations.gov
Next, I did a search for FRTIB
Next, I found the little icon that looks like an envelope.
Next, I clicked on the envelope icon and got a screen requesting my email and which type of notices I wanted. I clicked all of them (referring to FRTIB).
Now the real confusion lies in the fact that there is a little envelope icon by every single event such as "sunshine act" (which I don't care about). I found an entry for "Meetings: Employee Thrift Advisory Council " even though it was dated for 2006 and clicked on the "envelope Icon" close by. Then filled in the form and checked all boxes and clicked on "submit".
My intuition tells me that because I check all boxes, that will cover everything and not just the initial box for "meetings" that I clicked but there is no guarantee that this is remotely like an intuitive process.
Got a notice on the screen that I would be emailed something in order to complete my registration. That was 15 minutes ago and I haven't been emailed anything yet so this isn't an "instantaneous" process. I'll post if I get something.
Ayla,
Thanks for the note on what you did....I followed along through your steps, and I think I see what's happening....
It appears that the web site's "email notification" is for when you want to be notified, by email, when anything new is posted to a SPECIFIC DOCKET NUMBER. BUT....each "action" by the FRTIB will probably have a different docket number, so this won't work for what we need !
I THINK what we need to sign up for, is the "RSS Feed", but I'm old and gray, and I'm not sure how to do thisI suspect it means, though, that we MAY have to wade through every agency's postings, until we see the one we want ! Once the FRTIB's announcement is out, and a specific docket number is established, then we can use the "email notification" feature to keep up to date.....make sense ????
Stoplight...
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