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Should the new TSP Talk tracker software contain the L-funds?
- Thread starter tsptalk
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 2,928
Here's a discussion of some pros and cons... http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/showthread.php?t=4482&page=4
Callme_CO
TSP Strategist
- Reaction score
- 7
I'm a big fan of the L fund but I dont think they should be included. It's not like buying into 100 percent of the F fund and that's that...you have to look at the percentage of that particular L fund for that Particular quarter. Then if they didn't put 100 percent into it you have to do calculations to show the true percentages. I think that if that particular person wants to do the math involved then they can post what each one breaks down too. Just my two pennies.
EW_ret
Retired Tracker
- Reaction score
- 21
The number of federal workers in the Lifecycle funds is small now, but will grow to a significant force in future years. This will especially be true when the L funds become the default investment vehicle for new workers. By not tracking trades in the L funds, we are making a statement that passive, infrequent, TSP investors need not apply at TSPTalk. I believe this will be a mistake we regret in the future years.
By not recording L fund prices in the new TSPTalk database, we will not have the data to generate L fund return performance over any period. There will be no comparison with member returns, or the L fund returns will have to calculated and added manually to reports. Not recording the L fund prices in the database, or leaving room in design, will make any future upgrade to include L funds more difficult.
The Lifecycle funds are part of the TSP system and like their underlying funds can be traded like any other TSP fund. The TSP governing body does not restrict trading the L funds. I move money into and out of these funds at times when I want to have something in the market, yet I don't know what fund is best. It makes the job easier moving 50% L2020 and 50% G, rather than all five G, F, C, S, and I. It makes life uncomplicated for members who are retired, conservative, or infrequent traders. The argument that the L funds are not meant to be traded can also be made for any of the TSP funds. The TSP board perpetuates the same myth for all TSP funds. I hear the same bunk from Vanguard on all their mutual funds. But Vanguard has frequent trade policies in place that slows you down.
By not recording L fund prices in the new TSPTalk database, we will not have the data to generate L fund return performance over any period. There will be no comparison with member returns, or the L fund returns will have to calculated and added manually to reports. Not recording the L fund prices in the database, or leaving room in design, will make any future upgrade to include L funds more difficult.
The Lifecycle funds are part of the TSP system and like their underlying funds can be traded like any other TSP fund. The TSP governing body does not restrict trading the L funds. I move money into and out of these funds at times when I want to have something in the market, yet I don't know what fund is best. It makes the job easier moving 50% L2020 and 50% G, rather than all five G, F, C, S, and I. It makes life uncomplicated for members who are retired, conservative, or infrequent traders. The argument that the L funds are not meant to be traded can also be made for any of the TSP funds. The TSP board perpetuates the same myth for all TSP funds. I hear the same bunk from Vanguard on all their mutual funds. But Vanguard has frequent trade policies in place that slows you down.
Not trying to pick on ou81200 here... but I think this line of reasoning is wrong. The purpose of the boards isnt to strictly maximize returns. I would say that board's purpose is to give its members an opportunity to educate themself so that they can make the appropriate investment decisions for their given comfort level and risk tolerance.
For some, the L fund is a smart choice because it offers an opportunity of increased returns over purely G while not having to worry about the day-to-day maintenance required for 100% exposures. Then, if later-on they see news or hear some scuttlebutt and make a move on it in the TSP, the tracker would let them evaluate the goodness of that decision. Its that last piece that I think is important as it reinforceshow I view the board's purpose.
Spaf
Honorary Hall of Fame Member
- Reaction score
- 45
Everyone has made some good points!
The L-funds should be included in the forest!
But those trees are for buy-an-holders!
The L-funds include the F-fund, not the greatest fund till interest rates start going down.
It's easy to come up with a allocation that is similar to a L-fund. The beauty of the L-funds is that they are designed for auto-pilot, and they have both risk and reward consideration for your age in investing (to retirement).
I like keeping my returns between L2010 and LInc.
Rokid did a study on Risk v Reward! A very good study! Wish I knew where he put it.
There is really more downside than upside in trading the L-funds. MHO, would discourage such a practice!
You can throw the eraser now!
The L-funds should be included in the forest!
But those trees are for buy-an-holders!
The L-funds include the F-fund, not the greatest fund till interest rates start going down.
It's easy to come up with a allocation that is similar to a L-fund. The beauty of the L-funds is that they are designed for auto-pilot, and they have both risk and reward consideration for your age in investing (to retirement).
I like keeping my returns between L2010 and LInc.
Rokid did a study on Risk v Reward! A very good study! Wish I knew where he put it.
There is really more downside than upside in trading the L-funds. MHO, would discourage such a practice!
You can throw the eraser now!
- Reaction score
- 2,928
This was part of a PM I sent to ocean...
I think the L-funds are a great vehicle for most people to use to invest - if they are not watching their account. It's a buy and hold strategy so getting into the appropriate L-fund is the only step. TSP Talk is just a lot of noise to someone like this. You set it and forget it.
The tracker was designed for members to watch their favorite market timer to see what they are doing and why, and also to compete with others to see who can do best. The L-fund investor doesn't really have anything to share with others. I'm not sure they should be given prizes when they do well as they are not doing the work.
If someone decided to trade the L-funds I believe this would be a slap in the face to TSP as they designed these as a way for us to manage our accounts without having to worry about allocation - Pick your age / risk tolerance and check back in a few years. I believe they thought this would decrease the number of interfund transfers needed since they were making the decisions. That's why I think they will not be happy if they are traded.
They want to shut us down. Ameilio (sp) said it in an interview. I'm worried that trading the L-funds will just add fuel to their argument.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but they already reported me to my agency's investigation branch when I was linking to pages within their site. They did not contact me, they went right to my agency. It was a real hassle and while I complied to their request, I ended up getting suspended as the investigators started watching my internet activity at work. They are not friends of TSP Talk and if they believe we are encouraging trading the L-funds...
I think the L-funds are a great vehicle for most people to use to invest - if they are not watching their account. It's a buy and hold strategy so getting into the appropriate L-fund is the only step. TSP Talk is just a lot of noise to someone like this. You set it and forget it.
The tracker was designed for members to watch their favorite market timer to see what they are doing and why, and also to compete with others to see who can do best. The L-fund investor doesn't really have anything to share with others. I'm not sure they should be given prizes when they do well as they are not doing the work.
If someone decided to trade the L-funds I believe this would be a slap in the face to TSP as they designed these as a way for us to manage our accounts without having to worry about allocation - Pick your age / risk tolerance and check back in a few years. I believe they thought this would decrease the number of interfund transfers needed since they were making the decisions. That's why I think they will not be happy if they are traded.
They want to shut us down. Ameilio (sp) said it in an interview. I'm worried that trading the L-funds will just add fuel to their argument.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but they already reported me to my agency's investigation branch when I was linking to pages within their site. They did not contact me, they went right to my agency. It was a real hassle and while I complied to their request, I ended up getting suspended as the investigators started watching my internet activity at work. They are not friends of TSP Talk and if they believe we are encouraging trading the L-funds...
James48843
TSP Talk Royalty
- Reaction score
- 1,160
Ameilio should understand that we are well aware of the risks we take, thank you very much. He, of all people, should understand the value of informed retirement planning and investing, and how well TSP funds in general have served the working class. The Board is doing a wonderful job - and fund expenses are decreasing, not increasing, as a percentage overall, as the fund balances increase over time.
And I hope that the agency investigator uses TSPTALK to make decision about his retirement as well.
And I hope that the agency investigator uses TSPTALK to make decision about his retirement as well.
- Reaction score
- 2,928
LOL, he did. He said he enjoyed the site during an interview.I hope that the agency investigator uses TSPTALK to make decision about his retirement as well.
- Reaction score
- 2,928
If the L-funds are used, and in a perfect world we would use them, I would like to see some diclaimer that:
TSP Talk does not recommend or encourage trading of the L-funds. They should be used as they were intended, as a buy and hold vehicle.
TSP Talk does not recommend or encourage trading of the L-funds. They should be used as they were intended, as a buy and hold vehicle.
I feel that if our returns were greater than those invested in the L-funds, it would be adventagious to this web site. TSP would like to shut this site down. But to have our returns greater than L-fund returns would not give them any ammunition against TSP talk. That was what I was insinuating in my last post. The education part is a given for those interested. But the bottom line is to maximise our returns for retirement purposes. BTW, how much does it cost TSP to transfer our funds and where does the money come from?
- Reaction score
- 2,928
The money comes from our TSP balance. Each account pays a very small annual maintenance fee that is based on the size of your account. I don't know the amount for sure but someone posted recently that the already relatively low fees are coming down even lower.
Hi,
The automated tracker is ready for beta testing. I am looking for about 15 - 20 members to participate the beta testing of this software. For members who would be interested, please PM me and I can provide further login information.
Note: you will have to continue to input your IFT on the allocation thread in order to be tracked manually by EWGuy.
Thanks
Ocean
The automated tracker is ready for beta testing. I am looking for about 15 - 20 members to participate the beta testing of this software. For members who would be interested, please PM me and I can provide further login information.
Note: you will have to continue to input your IFT on the allocation thread in order to be tracked manually by EWGuy.
Thanks
Ocean
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