Republican plan to cut Federal Workers, Pay, Retirement

[law87]

good one. dang, i was hoping you would go for the deal.

what you got to complain about then?

you got a spot at this fire.

seriously, i appreciate your service, thank you.

haha i'm not complaining i'm just saying that i think you guys get paid alot already on top of that SOME people getting ridiculous bonus, so i dont know why you guys are worried about pay

myself i am an E-5 getting pay about 3800 a paycheck before tax (its not hard to look it up so i dont mind sharing), living by myself in maryland is Just enough to survive i'm sure all those FBI, CIA and NSA employee are either making more if not double what i make plus getting the benefit that the company give them as far as retirement benefit, so whats all the problem? honestly i'm just trying to understand what's going on here, not trying to make anyone mad so please spare me

 

[law87]

While everything is frozen?..I find that hard to believe..:suspicious: and if you think the Government employee is overpaid..please do not ever become one..this may help out the ones that appreciate their Civil service employment and maybe get a percent or two increase next year to help keep pace with cost of living and inflation..

you dont have to believe me, even i wouldnt believe it if i dint hear it myself, sometimes i wish i dint re-enlist and just become a civilian, i dont have two boss to cater to and if bonus flying around like that, i be rich! lol

 

[James48843]

I sincerely doubt ANYONE is making $100K bonuses.

In my agency, each year about 15% of people got a bonus the last few years. I saw the data myself. The average bonus was about $600 a person if they were in HQ's in DC, about $500 if they worked in a regional office, and about $450 if they worked in the field. That's it. And only about 15% of people got one.

No, no one makes $100 K bonuses. I'd like to see the agency who pays that- cause I don't believe it exists.

 

[James48843]

And the point I was ticked off about is this- the FERS system is FULLY FUNDED- there is no shortage in the FERS retirement fund. The fund is paid for out of current workers contributions, and a small contribution by the Federal Government.

And then here comes this idiot along with a meat clever, saying he wants to cut FERS pensions entirely.

It's not only bad policy- it's just plain WRONG.

 

[Buster]

you dont have to believe me, even i wouldnt believe it if i dint hear it myself, sometimes i wish i dint re-enlist and just become a civilian, i dont have two boss to cater to and if bonus flying around like that, i be rich! lol

It's not that I don't believe you..I find it hard to believe any kind of bonuses of that size is being handed out to GOV employees right now..

When you say 'GOV employees are overpaid'..that is a pretty broad brush stroke you are painting...I will agree some are overpaid for the little they do and there is a lot of dead wood in the Goverment rank and files..But a vast majority of the GOV employees are not overpaid, in fact they are sub-par from the private sector..they earn and work hard for what they get..usually after many years of school and dedication to their jobs..so be careful when you pin the tail on all of the donkies.

 

[Bquat]

haha i'm not complaining i'm just saying that i think you guys get paid alot already on top of that SOME people getting ridiculous bonus, so i dont know why you guys are worried about pay

myself i am an E-5 getting pay about 3800 a paycheck before tax (its not hard to look it up so i dont mind sharing), living by myself in maryland is Just enough to survive i'm sure all those FBI, CIA and NSA employee are either making more if not double what i make plus getting the benefit that the company give them as far as retirement benefit, so whats all the problem? honestly i'm just trying to understand what's going on here, not trying to make anyone mad so please spare me

Law,

Just remember a lot of us were E5's when we got out and had to get at least 2 year of college befor entering at a good level. The hireing freeze of 85 and 94 stopped a lot of entry level employees. With a big switch over to civilian contractors about 1990 about 90% of entry level employees saw a lot of their jobs go to contract. IE: vehicle maintance, grounds keepers, lower secretarial work, electricians, elevator repair, building repair, plumbers and so on. What was left were mainly white colar workers, managers, electronic technicians, engineers and people with clearences. This caused civil service to have the mid to high range salaries with lower salary jobs being contracted out. This was mainly what I saw and in 85 GI's used the GI Bill until the job situation got better. Lucky you didn't get out right now and while your in or if you do get out later get some schooling in IT, electronics, mathmatics, physics, or engineering and keep you nose clean if you want to go the goverment route.

Thanks for your service, because of you and those like you I can enjoy my freedom and my retirement. I was a two term soldier and server 8 years army.

 

[Lostdawg]

i think you guys get paid alot already

myself i am an E-5 getting pay about 3800 a paycheck before tax

The "paycheck" you say you receive is more than what a GS-12 step 7 receives based on 2011 pay scales and incorporating the Locality pay for DC-MD-VA-WV-PA (you said you were living in MD).
While not quite an apples to apples comparison, you can think of “Steps” as “time in service” for the Military. (Actually it would be the same as time in pay grade if such a thing existed for military pay.)
Just like Military pay and benefits, Federal Civilian pay and benefits are all online for everyone to see.

If I was to figure in Military Medical, Dental, Commissary, Exchange, and MWR benefits and I believe you move up into the realm of GS-13 or 14. We all (Military and Federal Civilians) work in different places doing different jobs. But our pay is standardized for the most part. Where I presently work, most (not all) of the people at the GS-13/14 pay levels have Masters or PhD level educations. Where I work is not the same as everywhere else, but it exists all the same

Here is another comparison that may help give insight to the Federal pay system. Look at the back of your ID card. Your Geneva Convention category is II (Non-commissioned Officer/Staff Non-commissioned Office). That is for E-5/E-6 or GS-5/GS-6. A GS-12 is a IV (Field Grade Officer). That is an O-4/W-4 for military comparison. On a Naval ship the GS-12 will normally eat in the Wardroom.

I'm just a Ret. Navy Chief trying to help you understand that you cannot correctly generalize the Federal Civilian work force based on your limited experience of it so far. I would argue you couldn’t generalize it at all. But everyone does to suit his or her agenda. Your making conclusions based on limited analysis. Just like I did above, based on your pay check. Should some SES and GS’s be fired or are some individuals overpaid? Of course. The Navy doesn’t have exclusive rights to the dirtbags or malingerers of the world. Just as the Navy doesn’t have exclusive rights to hardworking, dedicated people. And just because someone has an education does not exclude them from either of the above categories.

Another thing to ponder. Your benefits, whether used or not, are used to calculate your overall pay by the bean counters and anybody else who want’s to cut (or improve) your pay and benefits. I know it used to **** me off in my early Navy days when the Chief or Divo would spout off about how much I really made. ‘Cuz I sure wasn’t seeing it in my paycheck.

I did not even touch on the retirement package. As someone who has recently retired from the Military, I can say from my perspective and research the Military retirement package is far better than the Federal civilian package (FERS). However, the majority of the Federal Civilian work force does not volunteer to go in harms way (but some do). Again, generalizations shouldn’t be applied as it can also be argued that not every retired service member was in harms way during their career.
In the end, I think Congress pays the Military and Federal civilians the minimum amount that is needed to achieve the end state they are after. The problem is they can’t figure out what end state they are after!

To close this long-winded diatribe I would say, be very careful when you read, watch, or hear some generalized statement or “fact”. Scuttlebutt fits in here too.

 

[crws]

I'd like to add that a big win for our current contract negotiations was to bring back a sizeable portion of outsourced jobs to bargaining personnel, as many times it was proven to have been more expensive and/or so loosely tracked that it ended up costing as much or more than having employees do the work.
This stirring up the public ire @ gov't workers is a smokescreen, but will the average Joe call out the congress on their own hypocrisy?

 

[law87]

The "paycheck" you say you receive is more than what a GS-12 step 7 receives based on 2011 pay scales and incorporating the Locality pay for DC-MD-VA-WV-PA (you said you were living in MD).
While not quite an apples to apples comparison, you can think of “Steps” as “time in service” for the Military. (Actually it would be the same as time in pay grade if such a thing existed for military pay.)
Just like Military pay and benefits, Federal Civilian pay and benefits are all online for everyone to see.

If I was to figure in Military Medical, Dental, Commissary, Exchange, and MWR benefits and I believe you move up into the realm of GS-13 or 14. We all (Military and Federal Civilians) work in different places doing different jobs. But our pay is standardized for the most part. Where I presently work, most (not all) of the people at the GS-13/14 pay levels have Masters or PhD level educations. Where I work is not the same as everywhere else, but it exists all the same

Here is another comparison that may help give insight to the Federal pay system. Look at the back of your ID card. Your Geneva Convention category is II (Non-commissioned Officer/Staff Non-commissioned Office). That is for E-5/E-6 or GS-5/GS-6. A GS-12 is a IV (Field Grade Officer). That is an O-4/W-4 for military comparison. On a Naval ship the GS-12 will normally eat in the Wardroom.

I'm just a Ret. Navy Chief trying to help you understand that you cannot correctly generalize the Federal Civilian work force based on your limited experience of it so far. I would argue you couldn’t generalize it at all. But everyone does to suit his or her agenda. Your making conclusions based on limited analysis. Just like I did above, based on your pay check. Should some SES and GS’s be fired or are some individuals overpaid? Of course. The Navy doesn’t have exclusive rights to the dirtbags or malingerers of the world. Just as the Navy doesn’t have exclusive rights to hardworking, dedicated people. And just because someone has an education does not exclude them from either of the above categories.

Another thing to ponder. Your benefits, whether used or not, are used to calculate your overall pay by the bean counters and anybody else who want’s to cut (or improve) your pay and benefits. I know it used to **** me off in my early Navy days when the Chief or Divo would spout off about how much I really made. ‘Cuz I sure wasn’t seeing it in my paycheck.

I did not even touch on the retirement package. As someone who has recently retired from the Military, I can say from my perspective and research the Military retirement package is far better than the Federal civilian package (FERS). However, the majority of the Federal Civilian work force does not volunteer to go in harms way (but some do). Again, generalizations shouldn’t be applied as it can also be argued that not every retired service member was in harms way during their career.
In the end, I think Congress pays the Military and Federal civilians the minimum amount that is needed to achieve the end state they are after. The problem is they can’t figure out what end state they are after!

To close this long-winded diatribe I would say, be very careful when you read, watch, or hear some generalized statement or “fact”. Scuttlebutt fits in here too.

looks more like GS-9 at step 4 whatever that means.

you got me on the medicare chief, lol i forgot about that.

haha i hope no one get offend off at me for this, it just i'm a little pissed off that day when i heard a civilian goverment worker getting a large bonus for something that he really doesnt do, its the military that keep track of it and we just report to him, again thanks for the explanation.

 

[driz]

Makes no matter look at your history. When we got into budget trouble back in the day CSRS was axed as a budget money saver and replaced with half a pension, SSI and a employee contributions to TSP. Thus, the two tiered retirement system we have now.

That hit the nail right on the head. That old snake charmer Ronald Reagan and his crew had to save social security way back in the dark ages of the 1980's and ruined a perfectly functional self sufficient retirement system to do it ( CSRS). They came up with FERS which dumped all those new federal employees into the SS pool. Now that the vultures he created (and I don't mean FERS participants) have come home to roost 30 years later they want to "stick-it-to-us" all over again and blame it on us all the while. Boy oh boy what a sleight of hand, Houdini would be proud. As for those $100K bonus's give me a break. I'm sure it happens occasionally but as a matter of routine, please.............. .

 

[Buster]

Makes no matter look at your history. When we got into budget trouble back in the day CSRS was axed as a budget money saver and replaced with half a pension, SSI and a employee contributions to TSP. Thus, the two tiered retirement system we have now.

That hit the nail right on the head. That old snake charmer Ronald Reagan and his crew had to save social security way back in the dark ages of the 1980's and ruined a perfectly functional self sufficient retirement system to do it ( CSRS). They came up with FERS which dumped all those new federal employees into the SS pool. Now that the vultures he created (and I don't mean FERS participants) have come home to roost 30 years later they want to "stick-it-to-us" all over again and blame it on us all the while. Boy oh boy what a sleight of hand, Houdini would be proud. As for those $100K bonus's give me a break. I'm sure it happens occasionally but as a matter of routine, please.............. .

Well said....I remember back then, they sent around counselors (for a lack of better names) to try and get us CSRS folks to convert to FERS...unbelievably, several in my unit did..But I had reservations and stuck with CSRS..I'm so happy I did now...Then came core comp..and I dodged that bullet too.

 

[Show-me]

That should be criminal to talk people out of CSRS. Of course selling a bill of goods to the ignorant masses has been the basis's of capitalism for decades. Look a ethanol. lol

 

[James48843]

Then came core comp..and I dodged that bullet too.

And how exactly did you manage to avoid that, Buster? Did you do it all by yourself?

 

[Buster]

And how exactly did you manage to avoid that, Buster? Did you do it all by yourself?

I was fortunate enough to get out of the field and secured a postion with the FAA Academy as you very well know...the CORE COMP-Pay Banding did not get implimented at the Academy and we stayed on the GS rates...

 

[James48843]

I was fortunate enough to get out of the field and secured a postion with the FAA Academy as you very well know...the CORE COMP-Pay Banding did not get implimented at the Academy and we stayed on the GS rates...

And it didn't get implemented at the Academy because....

Go ahead Buster, let's hear why...

It didn't get implemented at the Academy because THE UNIONS prevented it.

You benefited personally, because of the power of the Union.
http://www.paace-okc.org/

 

[Buffalo_Nickle]

Where I work for DOD, unions.. ie: united aerospace workers; machinist union .. have little to nothing to say nor do with GS workers,.. only WG, etc type employees. Of course that is here in Carolina. Sort of a labor management arbitrator, very weak but good membership. Mainly a minority social club.

 

[James48843]

Here is the actual bill and the co-sponsors of the bill to eliminate FERS retirement:

S.644
Latest Title: A bill to amend subchapter II of chapter 84 of title 5, United States Code, to prohibit coverage for annuity purposes for any individual hired as a Federal employee after 2012.
Sponsor: Sen Burr, Richard [NC] (introduced 3/17/2011) Cosponsors (12)
Latest Major Action: 3/17/2011 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
COSPONSORS(12), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)
Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] - 3/17/2011
Sen Coburn, Tom [OK] - 3/17/2011
Sen Cornyn, John [TX] - 3/17/2011
Sen Ensign, John [NV] - 3/17/2011
Sen Inhofe, James M. [OK] - 3/17/2011
Sen Johnson, Ron [WI] - 3/17/2011
Sen Kyl, Jon [AZ] - 3/17/2011
Sen Lee, Mike [UT] - 3/17/2011
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 3/17/2011
Sen Sessions, Jeff [AL] - 3/17/2011
Sen Thune, John [SD] - 3/17/2011
Sen Toomey, Pat [PA] - 3/17/2011

If any of those Senators are yours- you might want to give them a call and tell them what you think about eliminating FERS retirement.

 

[driz]

James, I did some looking and found all sorts of old bills from previous bills but nothing current. Could you drop a link to it please. I always love to keep up with what these shysters are up to. If they propose to do away with FERS what would they offer in it's place, some form of "profit sharing" ploy or possibly some form of massive contracting.

Want to hear a better one? I was just watching FOX to get my daily dose of paranoia and what do I see but a proposal to charge Canadians and Mexicans to cross the borders of the USA. Unbelievable, $5.50 a head. Now I have been collecting User Fees on commercial trucks crossing the border for 22 years so the logistics isn't a stranger to me. We can hardly keep up sometimes now with all the car traffic so what do you think it's going to do? The other consequence might just take care of it more or less as many could just tell us to "stick it" and stay right at home. Contrary to popular belief the Canadians don't "need" us anymore than we "need" them. I swear you could get more mature, reasonable and enlightened suggestions from a high school debate club. These clowns have lowered the bar beyond desperate, they are now at the pitiful level.

 

[tsptalk]

I always love to keep up with what these shysters are up to.

I was just watching FOX to get my daily dose of paranoia

I swear you could get more mature, reasonable and enlightened suggestions from a high school debate club.

These clowns have lowered the bar beyond desperate, they are now at the pitiful level.

This sounds like it is getting off the track and needs moved over to Beltway Talk.

 

[James48843]

If they propose to do away with FERS what would they offer in it's place, some form of "profit sharing" ploy or possibly some form of massive contracting.

They are proposing to have NOTHING as a pension instead. The proposal is to keep the TSP as we have it today, and simply ELIMINATE the FERS pension. Period. Saves the government 11.7% of your salary by not having to put anything away for pensions for people. THAT is the proposal from the right.