Presidential Debate (15OCT08)

Does Joe the Plumber look like Michael Chiklis from The Shield?

Michael.Chiklis.jpg


JoePlumber.jpg


Then again, it might just be the bald head.
 
ChemEng said:
Great debate!

McCain shakes Obama's hand at the end of this one unlike the last one.
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Wow, ChemEng, it was as much fun retracing the debate through your stream-of-conciousness fingers after watching the debate as it was watching the debate in the first place. Wireless laptop?
 
The one I feel sorry for is Cindy.
After he goes back to the Senate he will just be impossible to live with.
His anger will just get worse.



And what was with the blinking was he sending some kind of code :confused:

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ChemEng said:
Obama wants to make loans to auto manufacturers? Sounds like more government prop-ups in the future.
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Loans to GM, Ford and Chrysler was a part of the Bailout bill passed last week. It is loans, not grants, and they have to be paid back. The deal is the result of discussions held and promises made when they upped the fuel mileage MPG requirements by 40%. Car companies are being decimated right now, and said they couldn't make the transition to higher MPG without loans. Congress authorized 25 billion to help them convert to more fuel effeciet production. It's already been signed into law.
 
ChemEng said:
What is a "refundable tax credit"? He's said this in every presidential debate, but Im not sure what it means.
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It's a tax credit and in a minute- I'll explain how it works.

First, I saw a major error in this debate on McCain's part, and Obama missed it. The Moderator missed it too. Let's see what the press does with it.

Obama stated that the average cost of a family health care policy is $12,000

McCain stated that the average cost of a family health insurance policy is $5,800.


FACTCHECK: The average cost is now more than $12,000.

OK- now back to the question.

Currently, health care insurance is paid for, for most people, part by an employer, and, for most people, part by the employee.

In the U.S., the average employer pays something around 80% of Health Care insurance cost. We feds- it's less than that, we get around 72%. But the average is around 80%.

But that entire $12,000 price tag is today- exempt from taxes.

If you get, say, a $75,000 salary, and $12,000 worth of health insurance, well today, as an individual you only pay federal and state income tax on the 75K.

Today, your employer gets a partial tax credit (meaning he gets an incentive to offer you health insurance, he gets to write off a portion of that $12,000 off his books), for the $12,000. Your employer can count the 75K he pays you in earnings, and the 12K (actually, about 8K of the 12K is his portion) The 8K is also an expense on his books, and no taxes are paid on it.

But you, the individual, don't pay any taxes on it either.

Under the McCain Health Plan, your employer's tax credit goes away. Your employer no longer gets to deduct the 8K as a business expense on his books. Now, that is shifted to the earnings column for you as income instead. Instead of reporting 75K in income, you now will have to report the full value of your benefit- 75K income plus 8K of employer health care, so you pay taxes on 82K instead of 75K. If you are in the 30% tax bracket, that means you'll have to pay an additonal $2,400 in taxes to the government next year, without getting any more take home pay.


McCain's plan is to offer you a $5,000 credit towards the insurance bill to cover that $2,400 in increased taxes.

Doesn't sound like THAT BAD of a deal, right?

You are $ 2,600 ahead. Right?

Except for one small problem. Now that your employer no longer can write that off as a business expense, the burden shifts from the employer, to the individual.

Next year, your employer cancels the employer based- health care plan.

So you have to go out on the market and purchase it yourself, instead of getting a contribution from the employer.

Businesses are now more competitive in the world market, because that cost no longer is an overhead cost for the employers.

But instead of getting group rates, now you have to buy insurance as an individual at individual plan rates. And if your health insurance plan cuts you off, you have to go out and find another one. Except that the NEW plan won't cover what you already have, because NOW it's a "preexisting condition".

That's why McCain is offering you $5K. To get you to think it's a good deal.

When in fact many think it will shift health care off of employers, and onto individuals.

The $5 credit is a line on your tax form. When you get to the bottom of the form, and it says that you owe $6,000 in taxes next year, then you'll take $5K off the $6K price tag.

Not to mention that you also have the 12K family price tag for insurance to somehow pay over the course of the year.
 
JTH said:
Obama's right ear sticks out more then the left and it's mounted higher.

This is troubling... :(
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LOL!! :laugh:

Yes, too troubling. Obama's ears are not symmetrical. McCain's face has that odd bulge. I guess that now there's nobody to vote for.
 
Obama's right ear sticks out more then the left and it's mounted higher.

This is troubling... :(
 
Tom should have a "Shout Out" feature for moments like this.

Nice conversing with you ChemEng.

I'll say goodnite to all for now.
 
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