Oil and natural gas drilling in U.S. waters

[nnuut]

And why haven't Foreign companies been allowed to help? Too much BUNK huh?

 

[CountryBoy]

We are not using the best available technology to stop this environmental disaster and I didn't expect any other answer from the all knowing socialist. Dang it must be hard knowing everything and having the answer to every problem.

Get off your union high horse. Is BO and his administration that stupid he wasn't aware of these vessels or do they want to maximize this disaster for there own hidden agenda?. You're just a broken record singing the same old tired song and you're so inflexible that anything outside the box or that BO didn't suggest just isn't fact. You're so sad that you can't see beyond your nose and if I could put you on ignore I would. Heck you're the only person I want to. There is no debating a situation with you.

These are the questions, comments and facts.

Some of the best clean up ships – owned by Belgian, Dutch and the Norwegian firms are NOT being used. Coast Guard Lt. Commander, Chris O’Neil, says that is because they do not meet “the operational requirements of the Unified Area Command.” One of those operational requirements is that vessels comply with the Jones Act.

"Yes, it does apply,” said ONeil,“ I have heard no discussions of waivers.”
Waivers to the Jones Act were granted by the administration of George W. Bush in the days following hurricane Katrina. And today, the Obama White House said waivers might again be considered.

“If there is the need for any type of waiver, that would obviously be granted,” said White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs. “But, we've not had that problem thus far.”

These are the facts, Everything possible to mediate this disater is NOT being down.

If the Obama Administration needs an example of what can happen when global assets are allowed to tackle a massive oil spill, they need look no further than Saudi Aramco’s clean up of a massive wartime spill off the Kuwaiti coast in 1991. Aramco summoned every available ship to assist in the cleanup. The company claims it recovered 900,000 barrels of oil in roughly three months. The industry views that effort as the gold standard in oil spill cleanups.

Simple facts, comments and questions. Why haven't these vessels been utilized if BO is so on top of things like he said? Spin all you want socialist boy, I'm thru dealing your your narrow minded Know it all attitude. I would make the print bigger, but you seem to be the only one blowing off these facts and not even considering why. "shaking head at such arrogance"

Still quaranting that our taxes aren't going up like you have gauranteed in the past? This is my last comment or attempt to debate something as simple as this. You're such an expert at everything that no one else even Coast Guard Lt. Commander, Chris O’Neil, is right concerning this. You've just turned into a liberal socialist caricature, just pull the string in your back.

This hasn't anything with politics, this is just getting all hands on board to solve this disaster and we aren't doing that according to the CG. I didn't realize you're on the inside.

 

[XL-entLady]

I can't read articles on this thing, makes me sick.

It was doing the same thing to me, Allie. But, at the risk of adding fuel to the wacko fire that "the environmentalists did this on purpose" which is one of the most lamebrained things I've ever read ....

Maybe this was the wake-up call we needed to start taking care of God's creations and mother earth. Maybe the rallying cry will ring like it did for the Alamo, "Remember Deepwater Horizon!"

 

[nnuut]

I call "BUNK".


That's a bunch of FOX NEWS bullSh*%#$.

Do you know what the Jones Act is? Or what it actually says?

Not what FOX news and the Heritage Foundation says, but what the LAW actually says?


First- "the Jones Act" allows seamen who are injured in the line of duty- to SUE their employer for damages if they are injured.

​

Of COURSE Fox News and the Heritage Foundation would want you to waive "the Jones Act".
They don't want workers to be able to file suit.

Now- that said- "the Jones Act" has a provision that automatically can waive U.S. built-US flag requirements for oil spill response vessels.

That's right- FOX NEWS IS LYING TO YOU-

The U.S. can allow an oil response rig anytime they want- no US flag required.


See 46 USC section 55113:


All BP would have to do, is ASK for a waiver, and the U.S. Government would grant it under this section. However- BP has not asked for a waiver.

Isn't BP a foreign Company?

 

[nnuut]

I just thought of something? When is the last time you saw a ship flying under the American Flag, not counting military? Do you know why? TAXES!!!:suspicious:
I think this would definitely require a waiver to almost all vessels under the Jones act.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22454.pdf

 

[CountryBoy]

I just thought of something? When is the last time you saw a ship flying under the American Flag, not counting military? Do you know why? TAXES!!!:suspicious:
I think this would definitely require a waiver to almost all vessels under the Jones act.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22454.pdf

A waiver could have probably been obtained if the stance of the regime had been more cooperative and trying to solve the problem instead of saying people are going to be presecuted and that he's going to kick a$$. Theirs plenty of time for the macho stuff after this disaster is under control.

A disaster of this magnitude, affecting this many Americans, it should have been one of his first thoughts of how best to stop this. Not waiting 40+ days and then when he wakes up he's all thuggish.

So much for his responsibility of protecting America and Americans, which should always been on the front of his mind, not how he looks to the rest of the world. We've got the waiver for Katrina, long before 40+ days.

Why did this regime wait so long and we still haven't got the best vessels in the world down there to help with this environmental disaster and prevent it from affecting the income of thousands of Americans. America and Americans first. Why the delay? How can you even dare to spin this? Words are cheap and so are photo ops.

 

[James48843]

The U.S. Government isn't the one hiring vessels to clean up the spill.

BP is the one hiring vessels to clean up the spill.

"The best clean up ships aren't being used"...

Really? Please tell me which ships you are referring to, and where they are today.

Oh, you can't name them? Of course not.
You simply clip your political position off of Fox news and say it must be true.

Come on CB, you are smarter than that. What ships? Which ones?

So you think a wavier isn't forthcoming for political reasons, eh? Really? Please tell me who is holding it up? What office has a wavier been asked for, that somehow, as your article alleges, a Union is holding up approval?


What?

You can't point to any such thing?

Another lie, eh? And you believed it?

fact: A waiver hasn't been requested.

fact: There aren't any ships that are being prohibited from being used.

But the facts don't fit with your preconceived prejudice, now do they?

Ignorance abounds.

Hey, how's that "Drill baby drill" thingy working out, anyway?

 

[alevin]

Jim, according to the regs you quoted above...(and I requote here)

46 USC § 55113. Use of foreign documented oil spill response vessels

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an oil spill response vessel documented under the laws of a foreign country may operate in waters of the United States on an emergency and temporary basis, for the purpose of recovering, transporting, and unloading in a United States port oil discharged as a result of an oil spill in or near those waters, if—

(1) an adequate number and type of oil spill response vessels documented under the laws of the United States cannot be engaged to recover oil from an oil spill in or near those waters in a timely manner, as determined by the Federal On-Scene Coordinator for a discharge or threat of a discharge of oil; and
(2) the foreign country has by its laws accorded to vessels of the United States the same privileges accorded to vessels of the foreign country under this section.

According to what I highlighted in the regs-it's the FEDERAL on-scene Coordinator who makes the decision that there are insufficient resources and to bring in more, including non-US, NOT BP's decision. (On-scene coordinator is person in authority who makes the determination-Superfund legal designated person-I've been involved in Superfund cleanups-incidentally).....

That person is

Coast Guard Rear Adm. James Watson, federal on scene coordinator for the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill response.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...safety-during-oil-spill-cleanup-96093344.html

I don't see anything in the regulation cited, that says the company must request additional resources before additional non-US resources can be brought in. I hear that they are ordering BP to do some other things, they could order BP to hire additional resources, could they not?

 

[KevinD]

I thought (hoped) all the drama left with the politics sub-forum.

I guess not...

 

[James48843]

Jim, according to the regs you quoted above...(and I requote here)



According to what I highlighted in the regs-it's the FEDERAL on-scene Coordinator who makes the decision that there are insufficient resources and to bring in more, including non-US, NOT BP's decision. (On-scene coordinator is person in authority who makes the determination-Superfund legal designated person-I've been involved in Superfund cleanups-incidentally).....

That person is
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...safety-during-oil-spill-cleanup-96093344.html

I don't see anything in the regulation cited, that says the company must request additional resources before additional non-US resources can be brought in.

The federal government does not tell BP WHO they must hire. The federal government tells BP whether or not they have enough resources (they don't), and tells them to hire more. But they don't tell them WHO to hire.

I hear that they are ordering BP to do some other things, they could order BP to hire additional resources, could they not?

Yes, the Federal Government can tell them to hire MORE. It can't tell them WHO to hire.

See, that's what the "spill response plan" was supposed to be all about. Oil companies are required to plan ahead of time, a response plan on what they would do, whom they would contract with, and how they would clean up a spill, BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED A PERMIT.

Of course, that was before, when Bush was in office. BP originally developed their spill response plan (no where did it anticipate 40,000 barrels a day, as it appears now is the case) back when old G.W.'s guys ran the Mineral Management service. And that plan showed WHO they were going to contract with.

So now, since that plan was worthless, the U.S. Coast Guard Admiral has to approve modifications to the plan in the middle of the spill response.

Could they waive "the Jones Act"? Sure- it's in the law. They (see reg, above) have the power to waive it upon request.

Can they waive it if NO ONE IS ASKING FOR IT TO BE WAIVED?

No- there is no reason to.


Again- the Coast Guard isn't the entity employing the cleanup ships.

Source: http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/
Deepwater Horizon Response

The Coast Guard is not currently hiring contractors for Deepwater Horizon response. BP continues to handle all contracting requirements and is the first point of contact for interested vendors. Read more>>

BP is the entity that employs the cleanup ships.

The Coast Guard can tell BP they are not doing enough. (They are telling them that every day).

But the Coast Guard does NOT tell them who they must hire.

If BP wants to employ a foreign vessel, they are free to employ the foreign vessel, and ask for a waiver of the Jones Act. Under the regs, the Coast Guard CAN waive it.

That hasn't happened, because BP hasn't hired anyone who needs a waiver. They COULD, but they haven't. And they haven't asked the Coast Guard to waive it.

The Coast Guard can't waiver anything that no one has asked for a waiver.

 

[James48843]

Corporations telling the media what it can and can't do?

​

 

[burrocrat]

The Coast Guard can't waiver anything that no one has asked for a waiver.

sure it can, this is the United States of America, we've got the big guns and can do anything we want, including invading foreign countries on trumped up charges, this is a national (actually global) emergency with ramifications for everyone far and wide.

so get on the stick. quit wasting time, when you point a finger at someone else there are three pointing back at you.

this has been blowing oil for a month and how many days? this is bad, Bad, BAD. and getting bigger, Bigger, BIGGER.

so do we use our powers for good, or is it more expedient to not use our powers so as to make someone else look evil? hey, sorry for your loss, but it wasn't my fault.

where is the leadership?

oh yeah, can't respond 'cause of his own Jones Act problems. waive that flag requirement baby, it's not like it hasn't been done before...

 

[James48843]

sure it can, this is the United States of America, we've got the big guns and can do anything we want, including invading foreign countries on trumped up charges, this is a national (actually global) emergency with ramifications for everyone far and wide.

so get on the stick. quit wasting time, when you point a finger at someone else there are three pointing back at you.

this has been blowing oil for a month and how many days? this is bad, Bad, BAD. and getting bigger, Bigger, BIGGER.

so do we use our powers for good, or is it more expedient to not use our powers so as to make someone else look evil? hey, sorry for your loss, but it wasn't my fault.

where is the leadership?

oh yeah, can't respond 'cause of his own Jones Act problems. waive that flag requirement baby, it's not like it hasn't been done before...

"it's not like it hasn't been done before".

+HELLO! WHEN SOMEONE HAS ASKED FOR IT TO BE DONE.

You guys take the cake.


I'm finished here.

 

[burrocrat]

because nobody at the top will tell you and in case you haven't realized yet, go west young man, and north as fast as you can. invest in real estate, say starting in CO, WY, NE, OH and radiating outward.

the po folks will migrate away from the cesspool as far as they can get, maybe a few hundred miles, further stressing already broken economies. the ones with resources will gravitate to the perimiter.

you thought there was a dead zone in the gulf before? just watch this, you ain't seen nothing yet. we were'nt meant to live in cesspools and that place has been a toilet since we got there over 200 years ago, and now our plunger ain't working, crap rolls downhill you know.

so it's only a matter of time, we broke it bad and can't fix it, it's mother earth and she's bigger than us, keep on believing we can invent a solution, but it's broken. we will eventually try something akin to the 'nuclear option', yeah that's right, crack it wide open.

get it over with already, only thing worse than hell or high water is hell and high water. CB you gonna get your oil in the ohio, but it may just get tracked there on the soles of the refugees.

sad, Sad, SAD day indeed.

 

[burrocrat]

"it's not like it hasn't been done before".

+HELLO! WHEN SOMEONE HAS ASKED FOR IT TO BE DONE.

You guys take the cake.


I'm finished here.

well shoot, if'n i only new it was that easy before, here goes...

ok, "I ask for it to be done", i might be a nobody, but i'm still somebody, and i'm asking.

outta here James? punching that ticket already? which way you headed? north or west?

 

[Buster]

Boom and Burn...what happened to this Idea?

http://bp.concerts.com/gom/boom_and_burn_053110.htm

 

[XL-entLady]

Buster, my take on your question is answered in the political forum.

burro, ol' buddy, you missed a h*ll of a hailstorm here in your old stompin' grounds yesterday. No garden for us this year. And I agree with you that Deepwater Horizon has pretty much trashed the Gulf and will trash the east coast.

But your answer to James was a bit of a head-scratcher. He keeps laying out facts and you keep countering with opinions. Now everybody is entitled to an opinion or two or ten, but if facts run counter to those opinions then facts trump every single time. That's why they're called "facts."

 

[crws]

...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I'd offer an analytical approach is best, and this may just be what pushes the administration (now & in the future) to get serious about compliance & clean house, then invest in our own Hazmat team and equipment that would be able to kick outfits ( in this situation, BP) to the curb and get it done.
IF that's the case, I say the government gets to keep the profit from the oil recovered, as well as fine or abolish offenders, and pump the well dry with profits going right to the Treasury, as the ultimate penalty of obvious recklessness & disregard of safety regulations and humanity.
But until that happens, the previous admin's rules leave us at the mercy of giants like the behemoth that is owned by millions of sharholders for the dividend payment.
If any of us in the Fed pulled a shenanigan like this, the public would be screaming for our heads, and we would have to hide for the rest of our lives.

http://www.valdezlink.com/evos/contact.htm
​

 

[nnuut]

So the Government should take over the Oil industry? Seems to be falling right into the hands of the Socialists. Well hell, Hugo Chavez did it why can't we?
WHAT'S NEXT?:nuts:

 

[burrocrat]

But your answer to James was a bit of a head-scratcher. He keeps laying out facts and you keep countering with opinions. Now everybody is entitled to an opinion or two or ten, but if facts run counter to those opinions then facts trump every single time. That's why they're called "facts."

i don't have a problem with the facts, and the fact is this is bigtime bad, something i've acknowledged all along. and i appreciate the facts and links James posts, led me to where i can keep track of the real information.

but the fact is, i am discouraged by what i percieve to be a lack of leadership in a situation that is (and has been since the blowout) clearly of major significance, in my opinion.

maybe things are changing, lots of activity lately, a speach coming up, and plenty of a** to kick after all, just dissapointed that it took so long to find, heck you could blindly swing your leg and hit a deserving behind for almost two months now, both in private industry and public service.

but lets move forward, get a handle on this thing, now.