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People use their religion to do a lot of bad things in the world. Nevertheless, despite my own lack of religion, I don't propose to do away with religion. Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism etc. have done quite a lot of good in the world. Let's not justify the actions of one person to judge any religion. If we did that, then there would be no religion. Nixon was a Quaker, but do we hate Quakers because of his actions? I think not.
Timothy McVeigh wasn't a Muslim, was he? Do I condemn all army veterans because he killed 168 people? Again, no.


CountryBoy said:
Here is the truth, as bitter as it may be: Islam is the culprit. Islam is anything but a religion of peace. Violence is at the very core of Islam. Violence is institutionalized in the Muslims' holy book, the Quran, in many suras:
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phil said:
Let's not justify the actions of one person to judge any religion.

You know it's kind of weird.....

But it seems like any time someone goes on a base and kills and injures a bunch of unarmed soldiers....

that somehow -- judgement is unavoidable...

whether it's simply a 'rational conponent' ... or somehow humans are grounded into seeking 'understanding' ....

....the judgement aspect seems to be an unavoidable consequence of our human condition ....

I guess it's almost impossible to judge any person without taking into account what their life was centered on... somehow we have to connect the aspects on which their life was grounded in order to 'understand' and 'appreciate' the basis of their actions

If we did that, then there would be no religion.
Actually that would not stop religion -- it would simply cause people to regard various religions in various manners.

Nixon was a Quaker, but do we hate Quakers because of his actions? I think not.
If we're looking for reasons to hate Quakers... it may not be a bad place to start.

Timothy McVeigh wasn't a Muslim, was he? Do I condemn all army veterans because he killed 168 people? Again, no.
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Timothy McVeigh was a decorated Soldier -- an honored hero so to speak. He expressed that the Military was turning him into a cold heartless animal.... that he was killing without conviction... that he had become 'an evil' and he was tormented by the change....

So his purpose in killing the others ... was a genuine effort to show everyone the absurity of killing 'innoncent people'...

Somehow he actually believed his actions would 'wake up' the USA and they would become pacifists..... I honestly believe that is really the truth as I remember it.

Anyway ---- later dude.
 
Extremists muslims consider it justifiable to do unspeakable acts in the name of religion to further their cause. They do these terrible acts on a daily basis and it doesn't matter how many muslins or 'infidels' they kill on the way. It's all part of the end justifies the means. There is no other religion that does that anymore that I am aware of. It's their sick, demented belief's that rule their lives...it affects all others. I don't know when this cancer will be stopped...that's what the current problems in Iraq and Afganistan are about. As more and more Muslim schools, religion centers move to the US...I believe we are see some more terrorists acts. Not saying all...but the few will spew their hate...against their own and us.
 

Terry Nichols was convicted on May 26, 2004 of 161 counts of first-degree murder, which included one count of fetal homicide. As in the federal trial, the state jury deadlocked on imposing the death penalty in the case. On August 9, 2004, Terry Nichols was sentenced to 161 consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole.
 
phil said:
Terry Nichols was convicted on May 26, 2004 of 161 counts of first-degree murder, which included one count of fetal homicide. As in the federal trial, the state jury deadlocked on imposing the death penalty in the case....
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Why don't you finish the story Phil?:rolleyes:

Yeah, I was there, I also remember how the Earth jumped when his truck bomb full of Ammonium Nitrate and diesel went off......Not too deadlocked though... he is now pushing up Daisies in Terre Haute, Indiana..One of the quickest death row sentences in history.

The most incriminating testimony centers around former Iraqi soldier, Hussain Al-Hussaini, whom witnesses place in the company of bomber Timothy McVeigh prior to the blast, seated in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck the morning of April 19, exiting that truck at ground zero, and speeding away from the bomb site in the only getaway vehicle targeted by the FBI in an all-points-bulletin for Middle Eastern suspects. Al-Hussaini has been unable to establish his whereabouts for the critical hours of that fateful morning, and more glaringly, the Justice Department has declined to officially exonerate him of suspicion.

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html
 
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mick504 said:
Extremists muslims consider it justifiable to do unspeakable acts in the name of religion to further their cause.

As has every other society of the past - including the good old U.S.A.

Look at our History -- in the way we have treated the Native Population, in the manner we brought in and supported Slavery, in the way women, children, animals and almost anything else you can think of has been done over the years.

Religion and Politics can not possibly be seperated from Society and that's what overwhelmingly make the people 'feel they are right'

They do these terrible acts on a daily basis and it doesn't matter how many muslins or 'infidels' they kill on the way. It's all part of the end justifies the means. There is no other religion that does that anymore that I am aware of.

Then I wholeheartedly -- SERIOUSLY -- ask you to investigate the extent of Witchcraft and Satanic Cults and Worship going on throughout the U.S.A. and throughout the world.

Over here 'we' are skinning babies alive .... and doing many other things far worse than them. 'We' are the ones most fueling the Child Slavery - Sex Trade - yep it's our dollars. Drugs and all the other stuff.

It's their sick, demented belief's that rule their lives...it affects all others.
Well here you are talking only about the extremeists. But there are many other groups that have done every bit the equivalent ....

how about the KKK .... and what about all the Secret Organizations that control our society ... the Masons.. Skull and Bones...

I don't know when this cancer will be stopped...
Well if it honestly boils down to 'RELIGION' then it will stop when all religions are 'outlawed' with the death sentence for violators.

that's what the current problems in Iraq and Afganistan are about.
That's far from TRUE -- the general population of Iraq and Afganistan are way more in hardships because of these fanatics.

As more and more Muslim schools, religion centers move to the US...I believe we are see some more terrorists acts.

But if we're going to limit (or prevent the Muslims) we could equally go after the Catholics, Mormons, and all the others...

Not saying all...but the few will spew their hate...against their own and us.
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Well if that's the case -- then the exact same thing would be true for everything else. All it would take is 1 or 2 KKKs -- skinheads -- and the rest of us are left defenseless.

But Life is short -- so whatever.....


Terry Nichols and Bernard -- are nothing -- want to go after the real criminals then get the Execs and the Top Guys responsible for the Recession/Depression ... for all the garbage related to the housing and everything else...
 
Really? Is this how we pursue justice? I think I understand. Terry Nichols also tried to implicate the FBI in the bombing, just to let you know. Well, I suppose you'd better send your story to Faux News. They'll print it. Then again, they'll print anything.

The fact of the matter is that we have enough troubles from our home-grown loonies. They'll believe anything.



Buster said:
Why don't you finish the story Phil?:rolleyes:

Yeah, I was there, I also remember how the Earth jumped when his truck bomb full of Ammonium Nitrate and diesel went off......Not too deadlocked though... he is now pushing up Daisies in Terre Haute, Indiana..One of the quickest death row sentences in history.

The most incriminating testimony centers around former Iraqi soldier, Hussain Al-Hussaini, whom witnesses place in the company of bomber Timothy McVeigh prior to the blast, seated in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck the morning of April 19, exiting that truck at ground zero, and speeding away from the bomb site in the only getaway vehicle targeted by the FBI in an all-points-bulletin for Middle Eastern suspects. Al-Hussaini has been unable to establish his whereabouts for the critical hours of that fateful morning, and more glaringly, the Justice Department has declined to officially exonerate him of suspicion.

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html
Click to expand...
 
phil said:
Really? Is this how we pursue justice? I think I understand. Terry Nichols also tried to implicate the FBI in the bombing, just to let you know. Well, I suppose you'd better send your story to Faux News. They'll print it. Then again, they'll print anything.

The fact of the matter is that we have enough troubles from our home-grown loonies. They'll believe anything.
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Buster .... It's your turn


I'm stayin' out of this - ------- praisin' the Lord..... and I'm out of here
 
phil said:
Really? Is this how we pursue justice? I think I understand. Terry Nichols also tried to implicate the FBI in the bombing, just to let you know. Well, I suppose you'd better send your story to Faux News. They'll print it. Then again, they'll print anything.

The fact of the matter is that we have enough troubles from our home-grown loonies. They'll believe anything.
Click to expand...
Pah-lease, could you be a little less cliche'?..Faux News is a used and worn out slam that has lost it punch because of it's baseless ranting of people that hate to hear the REAL truth in the news.

 Just to let you know (I wish either you type sanely or get your facts straight before you type anymore Liberal Drivel)..Terry Nichols helped in the construction of the Truck Bomb and gathering of materials along with the fact that they did practice mixture experiments on Terry Nichols' brother's farm..so to answer your tainted question..YES, Terry Nichols didn't actually pull the trigger, but he sure fits every description of an accomplice I can think of..that is how we pursue justice..With eye witness first hand accounts..(you weren't there, I was, so quit acting like you been everywhere and know everything, just because you drank some German beer)..tried and convicted by a panel of 12 of his peers..which BTW, would insult me to be closely called anything like his peer...What country did you say you were from?..Was it France?
 
The year of OKC, before OKC, we experienced actual bombings of several fed sites in my state associated with my agency and a closely related agency-nobody was ever even arrested. That year, for months, the fed building in Ogden received bomb threats on a weekly basis-our regional center. All us outlying offices in 4 states received notices of every one of those bomb threats-essentially warning us to stay away. Nobody was ever arrested. It was a very bad year, Buster I'm sorry you were there that terrible terrible day.

A decade earlier (80s), it was The Order who carried out robberies and assassinations throughout the western U.S.
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=7921

Unbelievably I was nodding acquaintence as a freshman in college (a decade even earlier!) with one of The Order who was sentenced to 40 years-she lived in my dorm and was a lot older, carried commercial art portfolio around with her for classes. And a friend of mine became passing acquaintence with that same person several years later after I'd totally moved out of the area. My friend thought that person a bit odd, as had I, but not psycho, no clue about that person's beliefs-if that person even had them back then-a decade before the assassination.

Neither I or my friend had an f'ing clue we had ever shared breathing space with such an evil person-not until the assassination and trial hit the newspapers a year after my friend was no longer in contact with that person. Crazies walk among us, people, you may never know-they don't all stand out from the crowd and give warning signals in advance. I can't live in constant suspicion of people just because they're a little different from me-I'd drive myself crazy, eh?
 
alevin said:
T Buster I'm sorry you were there that terrible terrible day...:o



Crazies walk among us, people, you may never know-they don't all stand out from the crowd and give warning signals in advance. I can't live in constant suspicion of people just because they're a little different from me-I'd drive myself crazy, eh?
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Very Very true..the list in history to date is very long....Also true, you'll go crazy always mistrusting people..but never drop your guard.;)
 
More personal attacks? Tsk tsk. You can ask all you want, but trust me, it's better not to go there. Not at all, my friend. I'll leave your post, as is. It's better that you read them.....and everyone else too.

Buster said:
The most incriminating testimony centers around former Iraqi soldier, Hussain Al-Hussaini, whom witnesses place in the company of bomber Timothy McVeigh prior to the blast, seated in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck the morning of April 19, exiting that truck at ground zero, and speeding away from the bomb site in the only getaway vehicle targeted by the FBI in an all-points-bulletin for Middle Eastern suspects. Al-Hussaini has been unable to establish his whereabouts for the critical hours of that fateful morning, and more glaringly, the Justice Department has declined to officially exonerate him of suspicion.

Pah-lease, could you be a little less cliche'?..Faux News is a used and worn out slam that has lost it punch because of it's baseless ranting of people that hate to hear the REAL truth in the news.

Just to let you know (I wish either you type sanely or get your facts straight before you type anymore Liberal Drivel)..Terry Nichols helped in the construction of the Truck Bomb and gathering of materials along with the fact that they did practice mixture experiments on Terry Nichols' brother's farm..so to answer your tainted question..YES, Terry Nichols didn't actually pull the trigger, but he sure fits every description of an accomplice I can think of..that is how we pursue justice..With eye witness first hand accounts..(you weren't there, I was, so quit acting like you been everywhere and know everything, just because you drank some German beer)..tried and convicted by a panel of 12 of his peers..which BTW, would insult me to be closely called anything like his peer...What country did you say you were from?..Was it France?
Click to expand...
 
Alevin- that was really interesting to read it all together, rather than the bits & pieces of newspaper write-ups. Thank you for bringing it to mind.
And Buster, the OKC must have hard memories on top of any others....
 
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It must have been a terrible thing to have been in that building when it was turned to rubble by those AssHoles, all I can do is imagine? Any American that doesn't see what went on and for what reasons should open their eyes and realize that there is an organization that would like to do that to our entire country. Our fellow Civil Servants that were in that building at the time of the blast are all Patriots and deserve our respect, after all it could have been any of us that were working in that building on that day. There is no compensation that can heal their wounds, the least we can do is support them and do our best to GET THOSE BASTARDS and make them PAY!:nuts:
Is that too conservative? What would General Patton do?
 
I read this comment on another forum tonight, with a few minor modifications, it pretty well expresses my thoughts. While I think Nidal should have been let out of the military when he asked-(the warning signals were all there that this was going to come to a head and not in a good way) and regardless of the mental conflict he experienced as a consequence of beliefs and values, that doesn't even begin to justify or excuse what he did.

Military trial should happen:

When a distasteful task has to be done, do it fast and get it over with.

Considering the number of witnesses, a completely fair trial should take very little time. Get it done and execute him. He'll become an Islamic martyr unfortunately but he won't be around any longer at least, which would give the families some closure.

I don't care if he did snap. He no longer deserves to live and we don't need to stretch it out and make it more painful for the families involved.

Really too bad he lived.
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Phil, I believe "fair trial" was part of what I said I agreed with. I also think it wouldn't take much time for jury to come to verdict.
 
I'd like to know who the Muslim cleric was that visited Hasan the morning before the shooting at his apartment. Probably encouraged this atrocity with the promise of eternity.
 
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