wavecoder
Active member
Haha, just never looked into it. I knew when i was the military it was illegal for us to unionize, so I assumed it was like that for all feds. I was wrong lol.
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federal unions
- Thread starter burrocrat
- Start date
Haha, just never looked into it. I knew when i was the military it was illegal for us to unionize, so I assumed it was like that for all feds. I was wrong lol.
ravensfan
Well-known member
Very early in my career, I was in the union. I had a co-worker file a grievance because he didn't like the type of music I played during work hours. Thinking things could get ugly, I contacted my union rep to represent me at the hearing and was told that I couldn't have union representation because they were representing the other guy. The irony was that he was a non-union member and got representation whereas I was a dues paying member and was denied union representation. Needless to say, I quit the union the very next pay period.
As for federal unions, it is true they negotiate benefits but in reality have very little power. Just ask the air traffic controllers who tried to strike during the Reagan administration. They all lost their jobs and the union was powerless to do anything about it...
wavecoder
Active member
That's bunk. I would have filed a grievance against you for being a ravens fan, but that's about it (Steeler fan here lol)
Crappy though, you'd think the union would defend the one actually paying dues, that's messed up.
FireWeatherMet
Well-known member
I can't speak for every local union chapter, but combined, on the national level, you do know that its because of them that your retirement plan is so generous. Its because of them that you can carry FEHB into retirement, otherwise Medicare would be the only thing you would have. Its because of them that your FEHB plan withholdings were so cheap.
So you got all those benefits, but let others pay for the fight to get AND KEEP THEM from Republican efforts to reduce them. Like I said...nuff said on your end.
nnuut
Moderator | TSP Legend
NO Sir, the government employees benefits were at the level they are now by keeping up with PRIVATE INDUSTRY! Remember GM, Ford,GE, Westinghouse etc. All of those big companies that have such generous benefits, and now have lost most of them due to our good jobs being sent out of the country by Bill Clinton and Al Gore. I hate that.
FireWeatherMet
Well-known member
Wrong...you've already been schooled on this...Jobs were sent overseas by the Republican written NAFTA agreement.
"Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1990 among the three nations, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed the agreement in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992"
(Clinton didn't take office till late Jan 1993),
North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Clinton could not veto it even if he wanted to, since that Republican outsourcing bill passed by a veto proof majority in congress, remember? Whether he signed it or not didn't matter, it had already automatically passed as a law in Congress (thanks to some democrat turncoats who sided with the GOP).
And any benefits for fed employees on any par with past private sector, the ones you enjoy so much, were all negotiated by your hated unions.
The reason they disappeared from the private sector in the past 30 years is directly related to a precipitous drop in private sector union membership past 30 years.
burrocrat
Well-known member
i was hoping it would not become one as i was more interested in the proportion of union/non-union feds, and less interested in the reasons why. maybe some of the discussion might need to be relocated, but please can we keep the neutral poll here where more can see it and vote if they want?
userque
Well-known member
Viva_La_Migra
Well-known member
Many are, even law enforcement types like me. They tried to take some of us out after 09/11, but they were only partially successful.
nnuut
Moderator | TSP Legend
Yeah sure, remember Ross Perot and the then Vice President arguing on TV when Perot warned the Inventor of the internet and Bill Clinton that there would be a GREAT SUCKING SOUND at the Border of JOBS GOING SOUTH? It damn well was Clint and AL. That was followed by GATT and other American job killers. SWOOOSH!!!!!! Where are Levis and tens of thousands of then American Made products being made now? NOT HERE!!!
Sensei
Well-known member
I'm a dues paying member of my union. In my organization (DoDDS), we can choose not to pay the $700 per year, and keep the money while still enjoying all the union's negotiated benefits. I don't care much for that policy. In California, one could opt out of union dues, but had to deduct an equal amount in the form of a charitable donation. Either way, the money didn't just go into your bank account. I think that was a more equitable policy.
I quit the union when they wouldn't fight for us to get our job description changed from a WG11 to a WG12. I was classified an electrical operator over in FOMD (Facilities Operation & Maintenance Division). We started large exhausters and compressors for research cells. I was qualified to operate, troubleshoot and repair in multiple buildings. Most of the electrical operators also helped the mechanics and we did pneumatic and hydraulic systems as well (jack of all trades master of none). Our max grade was a WG11 but an electronic tech could max out at a WG13. So we asked the union if we could get reclassified and at least get a WG12. The union pretty much said that the electronic tech was more highly skilled than our positions and they couldn't help us. Oh! Yeah! We also repaired printed circuit boards when they went bad.
Cactus
Well-known member
Oh but there were great jobs here. Unfortunately they went to that swelling mass of immigrant labor that invaded our country. Hey, it's a free market right? And they are willing to work for a lot less than us. It beats making Levis in Mexico.
userque
Well-known member
[Re: getting out of the union because they didn't yada yada yada...] In the same sense that no one candidate for any political office will agree 100% with our personal beliefs--yet we vote; so too is it with a union. A union is not a separate entity. Workers are the union, and the will of the workers, not a minority report, ought to prevail.
Even so, the minority still benefits from the union: wages, job security, working conditions, etc. I suspect it is only when we all are working at walmart that this will be obvious to the masses. To not realize this and not paying for YOUR union is akin to cutting off the next generation of workers noses' to spite your face. For most will have retired by the time the effects of receiving union benefits for free will result in fewer/weakened benefits. The next generation can then thank them for that. Btw, those workers received benefits/wages/working-conditions on the backs of the previous generations.
Even intelligent managers realize the benefits the unions--the organized workers bring: for higher paid workers directly results in higher paid managers. I've found that anti-union/worker managers tend to be narcissistic in thinking that they are God's gift to the workforce and have, in no way, benefited from the blood, sweat, and tears of those who've fought for the rights of the basic worker throughout history.
Smart managers also realize that there are bad apples amongst their ranks and like any police force, military, government; there needs to be rules/regulations/laws in place to protect the rank and file from potential abuse--as evidenced by history. Btw, managers have rules in place to protect them from "upper management."
The National Labor Relations Board and associated laws were created not by democrats or republicans, but by both because of the atrocities of management during the time when management could legally do whatever they wanted--pretty much. To now erase those rights shows a lack of understanding of human nature with respect to "power" over other individuals; of history with respect to labor struggles; and of what will inevitably follow.
History is forgotten/never-learned. History repeats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Board
______________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Even so, the minority still benefits from the union: wages, job security, working conditions, etc. I suspect it is only when we all are working at walmart that this will be obvious to the masses. To not realize this and not paying for YOUR union is akin to cutting off the next generation of workers noses' to spite your face. For most will have retired by the time the effects of receiving union benefits for free will result in fewer/weakened benefits. The next generation can then thank them for that. Btw, those workers received benefits/wages/working-conditions on the backs of the previous generations.
Even intelligent managers realize the benefits the unions--the organized workers bring: for higher paid workers directly results in higher paid managers. I've found that anti-union/worker managers tend to be narcissistic in thinking that they are God's gift to the workforce and have, in no way, benefited from the blood, sweat, and tears of those who've fought for the rights of the basic worker throughout history.
Smart managers also realize that there are bad apples amongst their ranks and like any police force, military, government; there needs to be rules/regulations/laws in place to protect the rank and file from potential abuse--as evidenced by history. Btw, managers have rules in place to protect them from "upper management."
The National Labor Relations Board and associated laws were created not by democrats or republicans, but by both because of the atrocities of management during the time when management could legally do whatever they wanted--pretty much. To now erase those rights shows a lack of understanding of human nature with respect to "power" over other individuals; of history with respect to labor struggles; and of what will inevitably follow.
History is forgotten/never-learned. History repeats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Board
______________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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alevin
Well-known member
I have seen ultra-bad irrational powermad managers come down on employees they'd targeted. People everyone else respected and trusted. Thank the Lord for the union in those situations, recordkeeping of the incidents as they piled up against various targeted employees, turned over to the union rep and then to higher-level management, who weren't in position to directly observe the incidents for themselves. The information compiled by the employees and passed to management via the union, documenting mismanagement multiple episodes, gave higher-level management the documentation they needed to remove the powermad incompetant dictator from supervisory position into a non-supervisory position or else out of the agency via retirement or other venues. Yes, sometimes the track record of a bad supervisor has continued over long careers through multiple states, offices, moving up in the ranks or laterally as a supervisor before it finally finally catches up with them, with the help of a union rep. It's sad that so many people suffered under that person until enough momentum was achieved to get the documentation necessary on the behaviors for higher management to finally acknowledge and rectify longstanding errors in judgement on who they raised to supervisory position power.
WorkFE
Well-known member
All democracies are based on the proposition that power is very dangerous and that it is extremely important not to let any one person or small group have too much power for too long a time. I think that is true for Unions and Governments as well. Our Politicians are a small group (we could argue that :laugh
, have we given them to MUCH power for to long. There was a time when Unions had a lot of power, and to a smaller degree still do, but squandered that power when greed and corruption of a few gave them a bad rap. I do not dislike Unions. Peoples ideologies are not all the same. How do I justify paying dues to an organization who in turn will donate money to a candidate that I do not identify with. Or do I just trust that they have my best interest at heart, highly doubtful. Obviously this is why there is a big push on one side to unionize everything (more campaign $) and more push against it on the other side (less campaign $). Some will argue that it gives you a voice, I will argue it gives someone a bunch of numbers behind one voice and I have no say in who they are aligning themselves with.
I have no doubt my TSPTALK Brothers and Sisters on the Left and Right are very adamant about there views and beliefs. This is an interesting topic.
, have we given them to MUCH power for to long. There was a time when Unions had a lot of power, and to a smaller degree still do, but squandered that power when greed and corruption of a few gave them a bad rap. I do not dislike Unions. Peoples ideologies are not all the same. How do I justify paying dues to an organization who in turn will donate money to a candidate that I do not identify with. Or do I just trust that they have my best interest at heart, highly doubtful. Obviously this is why there is a big push on one side to unionize everything (more campaign $) and more push against it on the other side (less campaign $). Some will argue that it gives you a voice, I will argue it gives someone a bunch of numbers behind one voice and I have no say in who they are aligning themselves with. I have no doubt my TSPTALK Brothers and Sisters on the Left and Right are very adamant about there views and beliefs. This is an interesting topic.
