Farm subsidies!

[cowboy]

imported post

That will never happen because the land your talking about does not meet the CRP eligibility. Land valueand rent is too high and the government can't afford to match it. There is no land that is effectively producing corn and soybeans in CRP. If you look at other countries and the portion of money they use for food compared to the American, you will be glad you live here. The CRP is going to go down because all the highly erodible land that is in is now grass and a calf is bringing a lot of money because it is one product the government doesn't subsidize. We'll feed that grain.

Why not let the free market run your hospital and schools too why your at it. The next time you want that government grant or loanthat comes with all the attachments for a street or building, just say no. Where is this money coming from? Me!

Most farmers are hoping that subsidy disappearsas then the prices will go up. The investor thinks it is going to happen too, why else would they be buying land. Look at a box of cereal. Do you know how many boxes of cereal can be made out of a bushel of grain? Approximately 30 boxes. Do you know what the loan rate is on a bushel of grain. Todays loan rate is $2.69 a bushel on wheat, $1.83 on corn, $1.26 on oats, $4.54 on soybeans. So now look at that box of cereal for $4.50to $5.00 and tell me the farmer is taking you. There isn't even $.10of grain in a box. There is 8.6 lbs of milk in a gallon and the average farmer gets about$.13. Plus they skim the cream before they bottle it. You do the math.

 

[Show-me]

imported post

Again, I said that the cotton farmer would not put acres into CRP because their land is to productive. But, other row crops like beans and corn will feel pressure because more acres are planted in those crop driving the price down. If that happens more will apply for CRP because they are getting lower prices.

I realize that a subsidy is a portion of a farmers income and it is use to a point to control prices. Where does the money come from? ME! Why not let free market control the price of grains?

 

[cowboy]

imported post

You just answered your own question on CRP why it will not increase. Productivity. One moment your saying the farmer is going to pay than the next your telling me it is too productive to be in CRP.Subsidy is only a portion of the income a farmer receives and they only receive it because the government can provide non-farm people with cheap food. You lose the subsidy, than government can not control price like they do now and suddenly the price gets higher cause of the cost it takes to raise it.Right now through the subsidy programs the commodities a farmer raises is priced by the government and if he sells below that price he can get what they call a deficiency payment that offsets the government price. If he reports timely he can get the deficiency payment and play the market with the commodity. But don't expect the markets to pay much more than the price set by the government unless demand drives it up.Farmers can getcheap short term loans on theircommodities also. For example: If they take a loan at $1.80 a bushel on corn and the market is only $1.65 when the loan comes due, the farmer can let the government take possession of the grain.

Farmers do not fallow that much anymore. It is all done with a no-till drill. Some will work spring crops in but fallow loses all the top soil. Thats what started CRP in the first place the big farmer or investorblew all of his soil off fallowing plus he was farming the government. I can show you fence lines covered in the late 70's & 80's from blowing sand when it was dry.

So when you seesome of your cotton farmers converting to Soybeans and corn expect to see morealcholic plants for fuel go up, to use this excess up. Don't expect all of these cotton farmers to do this as the cost of machinery will effect him also and you still will have cotton.

Actually farming in China will change andthey already know we have the technology and why shouldn't they want to produce more for their people. China and Japan have been coming here for years and looking at our technology. The Amercian farmer is just giving his food away. Their is no efficiency needed to farmlarger. The government told you the larger farmer was more efficient in reality it is not so and you bought into it. The larger farmer is not more efficient he just has a lower cost per acre input.

 

[Show-me]

imported post

The 1/8 of farm land that is in CRP I say farm it or let it sit fallow but don't pay them to do nothing. If its low productive land sell it or graze it don't pay them to do nothing. Plus in this area they put it in CRP and rent it to hunters. Productive land like in Iowa is just that PRODUCTIVE. They make more money farming it than in CRP.

The $15,000 is an average based on the amount of monies paid in subsidies and the number of cotton farms. Not a per bale or per acre don't have that info yet.

I don't think cotton farmers will put any of their land in CRP its to productive. My point was that those cotton acres will go to bean, corn, and wheat putting more pressure on those crop. Plus what ever subsidy the get for them. This will in turn put pressure on the farmer that is on poor soil to put what he can in CRP. Trickle down effect. If the WTO find that the soybean subsidies are unfair also that will lower the per/bushel price again making more farmer try to put land into CRP. Around here they farm every hill, ditch, slope, you name it. That land will likely qualify for CRP if it's still around. Its all mute if the budget is in the crapper because cuts will have to be made.

High labor issue is this, modernization has help the farmer tremendously but labor for the manufacture of chemical and equipment is high compared to Brazil and other countries. God help the farmer when the Chinese get there heads out of their butts and figure out that farming one 1000 acre plot is allot more efficient than farming 100 ten acre plots.

 

[cowboy]

imported post

I didn't say that the Pro Farmer was not for the farmer. What I want you to know is that if you think CRP is going to grow under this farm program as the Government wants youto think you could be wrong. First you say that CRP is a retirment program than you comment only 1/8 of farm ground is in CRP.I also want you to realize that according to the USDA your definition of family farm is not solely correct and doesn't even come close.If you believe a farm is only got to produce an income of $1000.00 you are totally wrong, a fruit farmer maybe. What your looking at is people like Juliane Johnston that are making a living off-farmbecause the CRP program put her there or the family is holding the farm andGrandma owns it. Last census shows that the main owners of real estate on farmswere widow women. The young that are farminggo deaply into debt to do it and mainly are renters it is highly dependent on how the year goesfrom year to year. Very little land owned by a young farmer. That or they are huge and just keep getting bigger year to year.

What happened to the freedom of trade act if there passing tarriffs?Farmers are getting paid now with a low dollar and also raking in the subsidies. Perfect time to jerk subsidies as farms are less dependant on the subsidy plus fewer people in the business.

There is not an industry that is not getting subsidized in some way. I realize the cotton farmer may be a concern to you. Did you know that the government did the same thing to wool. Two years later they came out with different programs to help the sheep man stay in business as suddenly the government realized the farmer was selling all their sheep. Now when he buys a ewe he gets paid $20 per head just to purchase it. Just because a farmer does not get subsidized does not mean he will quit raisingthe product.

Do you own CRP land? The $15,000 you mention as an average wouldn't even pay the fertilizer bill in April on someof these operations.I bet Iowa has very little in CRP. Are you thinking these cotton farmers are going to put their land in CRP? In order for land to meet the eleigibility Conservation Reserve Progam it needs to be highly erodible.

Farmers can now cover more ground and technology is so far advanced that it has taken alot of the labor intensity out of it. I quess I would rather see that farmer in the coffe shop spending than not at all.

 

[Show-me]

imported post


Cowboy,

Part of the point of my rant is I don’t like paying people who can work not to. I see the poor, poor farmers in the coffee shops every day with the poor me song and dance. All driving new 4X4 or dulleys. The other point is I see what is happening to manufacturing job and why. CHEAP LABOR! This will eventually happen to the farmers in my opinion. That’s why Brazil went after the US cotton farmer thru the WTO because they know they can product crops cheaper than the US if the US doesn't subsidies the producers. Rice, beans, and wheat will be next.

 

[Show-me]

imported post


Just so that we are both clear the article was written by Pro Farmer magazine and the data is from the USDA dated February 2005. I would hope that both or at least one, Pro Farmer, would be on the side of the farmer. Ten different economic and farm agencies and boards contributed to the projections. I understand that the information on the link is not the opinion of the author but projections based on trends and world economic events viewed by the USDA.

In 2004 there was 2.11 million farms, 936.6 million acres land in farm, and 35 million acres in CRP and no young farmers. I don’t think so. Also a farm by definition is an farm that produces $1,000 or more and land in farm is crop land, grazing land, timber in grazing, wet land consv., and CRP. Approximately 293 million in crop land that means 1/8th of farm land is in welfare (CRP) . That’s not counting livestock operations.

Point is that 13.5 million acres of cotton are planted in the US that subsidy is going away or our good will be have a tariff on them by competing countries. What will our government do? End subsidies? Keep paying subsidies and the tariffs? I think the budget is in shambles and the gov. is looking for reasons to make cuts. Lower taxes I like but raise spending and the Medicare Rx plan don’t make any logical sense so someone has to pay. Farmers maybe?

 

[cowboy]

imported post

Show-me wrote:

Here is some nice projections from the USDA. CRP is also known as "Farmers retirement plan". They retire and put as much land as possible into CRP so that the taxpayer can pay them.



[*]Area enrolled in the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is assumed to rise to 39.2 million acres from about 35 million acres currently. http://www.agweb.com/get_article.asp?pageid=115347&newscat=AW

This is old new! This happened 20 years ago! This is why you have no young farmers. Besides that subsidy is the reason you have it. The author of this article is in a state where I doubt there is much CRP. It is also based on an economist in Washington on what he thinks is going to happen. Probably a person that knows nothing about what the farmer will do. They are ASSUMING something is going to happen. Besides that the economist that wrote this probably made mega bucks doing the little report. One thing I notice they are predicting many different things will happen in the report. Kind of like going to palm reader. They will project this and then only comment 3 years later on what came true in their prediction and you won't remember the rest.

I will tell you this. I doubt that CRP is going to rise as assumed by this article with the current farm program.

 

[Show-me]

imported post

Here is some nice projections from the USDA. CRP is also known as "Farmers retirement plan". They retire and put as much land as possible into CRP so that the taxpayer can pay them.


[*]Area enrolled in the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is assumed to rise to 39.2 million acres from about 35 million acres currently. http://www.agweb.com/get_article.asp?pageid=115347&newscat=AW

 

[Show-me]

imported post

WTO finding that US cotton subsidy is unjust to developing nations will send a ripple thru the farming community. If US doesn't eliminate the subsidy competing nations will be allowed to charge a penalty tariff on US goods to make up the difference. Between 1999 and 2003 $1.5 billion to 25,000 farmers is $370 million annually or $15,000 to each farmer. If this ruling is enforce by the US this will probably be the last year most farmers will plant cotton. This will eventually be felt by all farms as the acres planted in cotton will be converted to soybean and corn acres. Soybean producers are already bracing themselves for this. Equipment manufactures for cotton production will take a hit as will agri-services and chemicals. More acres of other row crops will lower the prices of these commodities. Ouch!

Brazil and other countries are already planning to go after soybean subsidies next. Then rice and wheat. Those farmers that survive will not be trading implements every two years sending a shock to the implement dealers and manufactures.

I don’t think we/they will fell the pinch from this until next spring and next fall. Planting soybeans and rice instead of cotton and more beans and rice on the market than usual will effect price. On a happy note farmers will be subsidies for their rice and soybeans.

Next subsidy to get hit CRP. Conservation Reserve Program or as I call it Crop Reduction Program paying farmers to sit on their butt in the coffee shop and not farm to keep commodity prices higher “Since 1985 it has cost the taxpayer an average of $1.5B per year.” “The House farm bill would allow payments averaging more than $1,000,000 to full-time farms over the next 10 years, leaving the average household with $4,377 less to spend, save, or invest throughout those years.”

Things are going to change. Massive debt, trade deficit, ect How ya gona call SUBSIDY BUSTERS. Something has got to give so cuts have to start happening.