Corn and Ethanol.

[Minnow]

By the way, now that I'm not distracted looking up the origin of a particular car, did you get a chance to do the math on your little diesel vs. ethanol comparison?

 

[nnuut]

I think they're right, let's just ban all use of gasoline and use Alcohol, heck dragsters use it all the time. Their gas mileage isn't very good though.

 

[James48843]

We dont' need to ban gasoline.

We need gasoline.

And we need diesel fuel.

And we need biodiesel.

And we need ethanol.

And we need CNG.

And we need electric.

And we need to explore other fuels as they become available.

Oh yea- let's not forget Thorium. Can't forget Thorium.

 

[nnuut]

We dont' need to ban gasoline.

We need gasoline.

And we need diesel fuel.

And we need biodiesel.

And we need ethanol.

And we need CNG.

And we need electric.

And we need to explore other fuels as they become available.

Oh yea- let's not forget Thorium. Can't forget Thorium.

Oh! Is that right.

 

[WorkFE]

Bring back Steam. Coal fired cars would be cool. Can't wait to get one of these in my John Deere.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fKuKxq&usg=AFQjCNGColQsmcH45ddgBfkGdKTf5kEXsA

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

We don't hear much about the hydrogen fuel cell vehicles anymore in the US. I wonder why that is?

 

[Minnow]

We dont' need to ban gasoline. correct

We need gasoline. given our current infrastructure, yes.

And we need diesel fuel. given our current infrastructure, yes.

And we need biodiesel. need is a strong word... if there is a localized economically feasible way to produce it, sure... not sure if "need" qualifies here.

And we need ethanol. same as biodiesel. we "need" to remove the mandate requirements to allow a regulated but freer market, imho.

And we need CNG. again, need may be too strong a word for the blanket "we" (if you mean we the U.S.)

And we need electric. electricity in this modern age is probably a need but if you mean for transportation, i would again say that "need" is too strong a word.

And we need to explore other fuels as they become available. correct.

Oh yea- let's not forget Thorium. Can't forget Thorium. thanks man, that's giving it the old college try.

Just my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[James48843]

We don't hear much about the hydrogen fuel cell vehicles anymore in the US. I wonder why that is?

I'd say cost, mostly.

I read that the current technology best price for the production of a fuel cell equivilant to a 150 hp auto engine currently cost on the order of about $60,000-80,000. That's just for the fuel cell itself, not the car. Not including any of the hardware to wire it into the car, or store the hydrogen. That's down from the $450,000 it cost a decade ago, but still is nowhere near economically feasable yet.

 

[driz]

I'd say cost, mostly. I read that the current technology best price for the production of a fuel cell equivilant to a 150 hp auto engine currently cost on the order of about $60,000-80,000. That's just for the fuel cell itself, not the car. Not including any of the hardware to wire it into the car, or store the hydrogen. That's down from the $450,000 it cost a decade ago, but still is nowhere near economically feasable yet.

Actually a drop like that isn't all that bad really. Now of course if it was something like jet technology during WW2 we would have it in 2 years or less. Alas our own home grown Oil Mafia is going to be easily successful at keeping this away from us until long after someone else develops it. That's the way it goes I guess and there's not a thing us small fry can do about it.

 

[nnuut]

Algae, it's Algae that's the answer!

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

Algae, it's Algae that's the answer!

Algae has great potential. Depending on the strain and how you process it, you can get either oil to make biodiesel, or ethanol. It doesn't take from the food supply and the byproducts can be used in cattle feed, or it can be used in anaerobic digesters to make methane gas, from which electricity can be produced. There are a few companies building commercial size facilities to test the possibility of making biofuels from algae. I'm hoping they are successful, because if projections play out, it really could compete with Big Oil and the Middle East. If I could, I'd consider investing in it's commercial development.

 

[nnuut]

Algae has great potential. Depending on the strain and how you process it, you can get either oil to make biodiesel, or ethanol. It doesn't take from the food supply and the byproducts can be used in cattle feed, or it can be used in anaerobic digesters to make methane gas, from which electricity can be produced. There are a few companies building commercial size facilities to test the possibility of making biofuels from algae. I'm hoping they are successful, because if projections play out, it really could compete with Big Oil and the Middle East. If I could, I'd consider investing in it's commercial development.

Sounds promising, let us know when they get it perfected. Actually I like this one but wouldn't bet the bank on it, yet.

 

[James48843]

Algae, it's Algae that's the answer!

Republicans in Florida are poised to kill the Ethanol from Algae business.

The premier company working on commericial scale developement was shocked a few weeks ago when a Flordia republican state representative suddenly introduced a law that is going to make it harder for the ethanol company to do business.

State concerned with algae-to-ethanol process of Fort Myers company » Naples Daily News

here is the bio of the state rep:
Scott Plakon - Biography - Project Vote Smart

 

[driz]

Republicans in Florida are poised to kill the Ethanol from Algae business.

The premier company working on commericial scale developement was shocked a few weeks ago when a Flordia republican state representative suddenly introduced a law that is going to make it harder for the ethanol company to do business.

State concerned with algae-to-ethanol process of Fort Myers company » Naples Daily News

here is the bio of the state rep:
Scott Plakon - Biography - Project Vote Smart

Note the stripes of the Rep who presented this. Anything to protect the oil companies. Back when I lived down near the Cape in 1980 or 81 some speed shop owner had developed one of those pressure carburetors some of you have hear about. He was supposed to be getting around double mileage out of a 351 Ford V8 in a Cougar. I remember the article in the paper where he decided not to build it since the EPA hit him with so many big buck requirements that it was impossible . True or not, I didn't know the guy but it makes you wonder if we needed the oil then either? Like they say, "Follow the money".

 

[James48843]

Patriotic Americans choose flex-fuel vehicles


After learning and understanding the facts, The Auto Channel along with scientists, politicians and intelligent Americans believe that replacing gasoline with Ethanol as the primary fuel for American mobility will result in a win-win-win-win for our country, our people and our economy. Yet despite overwhelming logic and factual proof of flex [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]fuels[/COLOR][/COLOR] validity, the forces of evil and their ignorant (or owned) minions continue to obstruct flex fuel's ubiquitous adoption through well planned and payed-for mis-information and “divide and conquer” tactics.

The only entity to get hurt from the ubiquitous adoption of [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]flex [COLOR=blue !important]fuel[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] is the foreign oil cartel, the OPEC nations.

Just imagine the positive effects that production, distribution and use of sustainable, domestic Bio-Ethanol fuels will have on the United States and the world.

More:


Patriotic Americans Choose Flex-Fuel Vehicles

 

[James48843]

Study: Ethanol lowered gas prices by $1+ per gallon

America’s use of domestically produced ethanol reduced wholesale gasoline prices by an average of $1.09 per gallon in 2011, according to updated research conducted by economists at the University of Wisconsin and Iowa State University.

An update to a 2009 peer-reviewed paper published in Energy Policy by Dermot Hayes of Iowa State and Xiaodong Du of Wisconsin, the study also found gasoline prices have been reduced by an average of $0.29 per gallon nationally, 17 percent, from 2000-2011 thanks to the use of ethanol. The reduction in the Midwest was even greater, $0.45 per gallon, according to the research.

"Growth in U.S. ethanol production has added significantly to the volume of fuel available in the U.S.,” Hayes said in a press release. “It is as if the U.S. oil refining industry had found a way to extract 10 percent more gasoline from a barrel of oil. This additional fuel supply has alleviated periodic gasoline shortages that had been caused by limited refinery capacity. It has also changed the relative prices of gasoline and diesel and allowed the U.S. to switch from being a net importer of gasoline to a net exporter. As a result of these changes, U.S. gasoline prices are measurably lower than would otherwise have been the case."

more: Study: Ethanol lowered gas prices by $1+ per gallon : Sioux City Journal

 

[Valkyrie]

more: Study: Ethanol lowered gas prices by $1+ per gallon : Sioux City Journal

still drinking the kool-aid by the gallon I see. just follow the money and pay offs.


While oxygenated fuels have been promoted for their ability to decrease certain air toxics, multiple studies have reported higher emissions of the hazardous air pollutants acetaldehyde and formaldehyde linked to increased ethanol content in fuels (Ban-Weiss 2008; Black 1998; DOE 2009; Grosjean 2002; Whitney 2007; Winebrake 2001). Both acetaldehyde and formaldehyde are considered by EPA to be probable human carcinogens (U.S. EPA 2007a). Formaldehyde is associated with respiratory tract irritation, chronic bronchitis, and airway inflammation (U.S. EPA 2007a). Acetaldehyde is a strong respiratory irritant and toxicant especially dangerous for children and adults with asthma. As demonstrated by a recent study, acetaldehyde air pollution is already presents greater than a one-in-one-million cancer risk at most sites nationally (McCarthy 2009). Further increases in acetaldehyde could lead to increased cancer incidence and wider prevalence of respiratory problems.

Increases by two- to three-fold (Australian Government 2004; DOE 2009), especially when the vehicles are started at cold temperature (Whitney 2007).	Respiratory toxicant, irritant, inhalation carcinogen, strongly contributes to ground-level ozone formation (U.S. EPA 2007a)
Formaldehyde	Increases for all ethanol blends compared to E0 (Australian Government 2004; DOE 2009)	Respiratory toxicant, inhalation carcinogen, contributes to ground-level ozone formation (U.S. EPA 2007a)
Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx)	Some increase for E15 (37% of vehicles in DOE study) and notable increase for E20, especially for older, high-mileage vehicles (Australian Government 2004; DOE 2009). Increases for non-road engines at every ethanol concentration tested (E10, E15, and E20).	Aggravates respiratory disease; contributes to ground-level ozone formation; increases acidification and eutrofication of soil and surface water (U.S. EPA 2008)
Ethanol (precursor to acetaldehyde)	Released during both ethanol production and ethanol fuel combustion (Brady 2007; DOE 2009)	Health effects due to acetaldehyde formation in the air (U.S. EPA 2009a).
Volatile organic chemicals (VOCs)	Emitted by ethanol production facilities (Brady 2007)	Respiratory toxicants, contribute to ground-level ozone formation (U.S. EPA 2007a).
Ozone	May increase with increased ethanol use due to the projected increases in VOCs and NOx emissions (American Lung Association 2009; Jacobson 2007; U.S. EPA 2007b)	Aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular disease, higher rates of asthma, and respiratory infection. Increases premature death. Causes damage to vegetation such as trees and crops (Jerrett 2009; NRC 2008; U.S. EPA 2008)
Particulate matter (PM2.5)	Significant increases due to corn ethanol production compared to conventional gasoline (Hill 2009)	Aggravation of respiratory and cardiovascular disease, decreased lung function, increased asthma and premature death. Environmental influence: impairment of visibility, effects on climate (U.S. EPA 2008)

Ethanol-Gasoline Fuel Blends May Cause Human Health Risks and Engine Issues | Environmental Working Group

 

[Buster]

And to think they banned Cigarette smoking in most public places now.. and yet Burning ethanoil is gonna kill us faster..I don't get it...

 

[nnuut]

And to think they banned Cigarette smoking in most public places now.. and yet Burning ethanoil is gonna kill us faster..I don't get it...

What the heck?

​

 

[Viva_La_Migra]

And to think they banned Cigarette smoking in most public places now.. and yet Burning ethanoil is gonna kill us faster..I don't get it...

But you'll be well preserved.