Alternate LMBF methods

Here are the monthly returns as of 5/29/2014.


[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: left"] Date [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: center"] G FUND [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: center"] F FUND [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: center"] C FUND [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: center"] S FUND [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: center"] I FUND [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99, align: left"] 29-May-2014 [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #CCFFCC, align: right"]0.19%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #CCFFCC, align: right"]1.23%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #99CC00, align: right"]2.16%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #CCFFCC, align: right"]1.82%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #CCFFCC, align: right"]1.67%
[/TD]
The best fund is C so the following IFTs take place before noon eastern Tomorrow, 5/30/2014:

LMBF-1 changes from the I Fund to the C Fund
LMBF-1 SIM Remains in the F Fund through October
LMBF-1 C>S changes from the I Fund to the S Fund
LMBF-1 CI>S Remains in the S Fund

Looks like we are getting even more separation between the funds this month.

Thanks for keeping the thread alive Cactus

+1 I love this thread, this is a great opportunity for the casual investor to steer clear of the large downtrends. I can't remember what the back-tested results were, if you ever get a chance, please post them again since there are always new members needing to learn. :)
 
+1 I love this thread, this is a great opportunity for the casual investor to steer clear of the large downtrends. I can't remember what the back-tested results were, if you ever get a chance, please post them again since there are always new members needing to learn. :)

A co-worker turned me on to this site and the LMBF thread and I was hooked. Along came Cactus with the "alternatives" and was blown away with his calculating prowess. These two threads are worth the price of admission alone.

Great job, and I am so appreciative that you are willing to hash out the numbers for the different whacky variances some of us come up with. Thanks so much!
 
Regarding the back-tested results, here are 10 years of annual returns for our TSP Funds and these methods.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C>S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]CI>S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]SIM[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.82%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.03%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.51%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.49%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.96%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.63%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.38%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.91%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (3.66%) [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.93%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.79%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.32%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.07%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.83%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.03%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.87%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.09%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.54%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.49%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.43%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.97%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.95%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.75%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (36.99%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (38.32%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (42.43%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.06%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (10.15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (9.52%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (7.64%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.22%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.97%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.99%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.04%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.05%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.17%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38.86%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.67%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.81%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.71%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.06%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.06%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.94%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.38%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.53%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (3.38%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.81%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.95%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.29%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.07%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.57%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.62%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.27%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.56%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.40%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2013
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (1.63%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.13%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.21%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.26%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.31%[/TD]
The original posting was here: Post #104 and also included running totals and some stats on the 3, 5 & 10 year returns.

If you are interested in the monthly performance of these methods you can find tables showing 10 years of this data here: Post #102

Finally, if you need a reminder on how these methods work, check that out here: Post #97
 
Damn... been so busy with life that I forgot about my IFT for June. Submitted. Not going to fret as one day difference is a make or break. Presently trying to get our new home liveable. Builder is over a month late and is scrambling to get it all finished, permits and CoO's done by Friday. Once we're in and settled, life will be more relaxing... retirement is a beautiful thing.
 
Good to hear that life is good and has been keeping you busy in retirement, Hallatauer. Still, it will be better once the new house is done. :)

As for the June IFT, you are right, there's nothing to fret over. It's just like moving from LMBF-1 to LMBF for June. :D

LMBF should also be in the C Fund for June.
 
Last edited:
Hey Cactus,

Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze for this one, but....

Any chance I can beg you to run another variance to the family? What if we went to F when the G fund comes up the winner? Like how there's C-->S or CI-->S, the system does G-->F. Just eyeballing the data, it seems to catch some potential whipsaw action between the two most conservative funds.

Thanks!
 
Jonfresno, I'll look into G-->F after I finish the latest back-testing I'm working on.

It bothers me that we don't have daily price data for our Funds past June 2003. That's why all my back-testing goes back to 2004. It's the last year with complete daily data. I always wanted to go back to 2000 to see how LMBF performed during the dot-com bust. I think I found a way to do that.

I do have monthly data that goes back to 1988. I can use that to back-test a version of LMBF that has zero latency. That is, I use the previous month's whole month return to determin next month's whole month investment. We can't actually trade like this, of couse, since we are always at the mercy of the 1 day lag (latency), but I'm hoping it's a good indicator of the LMBF methods in general and can be used to show how they behaved before 2004.

So far it's looking pretty good. LMBF0, as I call it, is in the same ball park as LMBF & LMBF-1 for 2004 - 2013. It also appears to have done a good job of stemming losses from the dot-com bust. I'm going to compute returns back to 1988 and post them here after I double-check my numbers.
 
Hey guys, been wanting to tell you this for a while now, just didn't have the heart. This post I made a minute ago elsewhere pretty much explains what I'm talking about:

Hi JTH,

How did you come up with the percentages? (I could cross check the numbers and answer my own question, but it's easier just to ask, and the odds favor that you used simple addition :)) If you used simple addition, you will get faulty results:


Suppose, an account has $100 first of the year, ends year up 10% for the year at $110, ends second year up 10% (for that year) at $121.

Simple addition says total percentages over the two year span is 20% (10%+10%). But as you can see, it is actually 21% ($100 into $121).

The differences/errors are amplified with higher account amounts (used internally by the tsptalk spreadsheet) and time (number of years span lasts).

To do this correctly is more complicated and requires more work. (Using a pseudo account balance for each trader that runs to whole time span, etc.)


They also do these simple addition of percentages in the alternative LMBF forums...also getting incorrect conclusions...guess I'll finally let them know as well by copying this to them.

To any sensitive readers: not trying to fight :rolleyes: (as so many times helpful (albeit: critical) information leads to on this site) just thought you would like accurate information. There is no easy way to tell someone: "Sorry, that's not correct if you did it like this..." But I tried.

:)
​<end quote>
 
Yes, Userque, you can't simply add up your returns to total them or average them because your balance is different for each one and leads to erroneous results. You aren't figuring your subsequent gains/losses from your previous gains/losses. The classic example is losing 50% one year and earning 50% the next does not get you back to where you were. That is why you need to compute stuff like annualized returns instead of simple means. That's explained here: http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/ta-tools/18517-introduction-measuring-risk-tsp-funds-2.html#post428667. Post #2 is probably what you want.

If this is not what you are referring to, feel free to give another example. I'm no finance person and we don't want people led astray. :)
 
Back-tested results for the LMBF0 indicator method

Here are 26 years of back-tested returns for the zero-latency LMBF method, LMBF0. It sets the whole next month to last month's best fund. This is only an indicator method that uses the TSP Fund monthly return data. We can't actually trade LMBF0 since we always have a 1 day lag between determining the best fund and exercising an IFT into it, but this gives us more data to back-test against since TSP Fund daily data only goes back to June 2003. Another caveat is that the S & I Funds only go back to January 2001 so they aren't used in LMBF0 before then. Have a look; analysis to follow.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]Year[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1988[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.81%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.63%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.84%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]7.39%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1989[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.81%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.03%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]23.47%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1990[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.90%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (3.15%) [/TD]

[TD="align: right"]0.57%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1991[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.15%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.75%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.77%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]11.80%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1992[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.23%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.20%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.70%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]0.72%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1993[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.14%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.52%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.13%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.56%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1994[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (2.96%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.33%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]0.64%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1995[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.03%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.31%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.41%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]29.43%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1996[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.76%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.85%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]26.96%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1997[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.77%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]33.17%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]9.52%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1998[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.74%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.44%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]31.25%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]1999[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.99%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (0.85%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20.95%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]9.70%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2000[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.42%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.67%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (9.14%) [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] (6.46%) [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2001[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.39%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.61%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.94%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (9.04%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (21.94%) [/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3.85%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2002[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.27%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (22.05%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (18.14%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (15.98%) [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] (1.65%) [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2003[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.54%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]42.92%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]37.94%[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]38.73%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.82%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.03%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.48%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.49%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.96%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.63%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.38%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.70%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.93%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.79%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.32%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.07%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.18%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.87%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.09%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.54%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.49%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.43%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.97%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.78%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.75%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (36.99%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (38.32%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (42.43%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.06%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (10.15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.39%) [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.97%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.99%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30.04%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.05%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.06%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.81%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.71%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.06%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.06%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.94%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (3.38%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.81%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.95%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.29%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.07%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.57%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.62%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.27%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.63%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (1.63%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]32.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.13%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.21%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.26%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.66%[/TD]
 
Analyzing LMBF0 (Part 1)

Now that we have back-tested results for LMBF0 in the previous post, let's see how it compares to LMBF and LMBF-1.

Looking at the 3 tables below, we see their 10, 5, and 3 year returns. The Annualized Return is computed using a CAGR (Compound Annual Growth Rate). The Standard Deviation is a measure of volatility or risk as outlined here: http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/ta-tools/18517-introduction-measuring-risk-tsp-funds-2.html#post428666


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]10 Year (2004 - 13)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.39%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.44%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.43%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.08%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.26%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.66%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.19%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.61%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.86%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20.99%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20.57%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.74%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.86%[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]5 Year (2009 - 13)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.32%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.39%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.59%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.88%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.64%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.56%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.01%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.12%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.65%[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]3 Year (2011 - 13)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.94%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.44%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.59%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.49%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.26%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.92%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.04%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.24%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.36%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.91%[/TD]
From these 3 tables we see that both the annualized return and risk (standard deviation) for LMBF0 are within the same ballpark values as LMBF and LMBF-1. Most values are in fact between the two. This assures us that LMBF0 is a good indicator method for LMBF and LMBF-1. Also notice that all 3 methods show similar relationships to the TSP Funds. All 3 methods outperformed the C Fund over the last 10 years at half the risk while they underperformed the C Fund over the last 5 & 3 years but still incurred only half the risk.

The 10 year produced better results for us than the 5 & 3 year because it includes the 2008 economic downturn while the 5 & 3 year do not. This would indicate that our methods tend to perform more by reducing losses than they do by increasing gains. 2013 confirmed this view on the positive side. If you bought-and-held C and/or S Funds during 2013 you would have done much better than our methods. It's not always like that. 2012 was also a good year, and our methods beat all 5 TSP funds. So which is it? Will these trends continue over time? How do the methods perform longer term? Let's find out in part 2 of this analysis.
 
Analyzing LMBF0 (Part 2)

The 2 tables below use LMBF0 to extend our back-testing to the last 13 & 14 years. I chose 13 years to include all the S & I Fund data available. I also chose 14 years to include year 2000 so we would include all of the dot-com bust. Let's see how we fared.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]13 Year (2001 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.72%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.34%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.59%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.04%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.23%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.89%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.42%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.72%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.57%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.64%[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]14 Year (2000 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.91%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.61%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.69%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.37%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.16%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.14%[/TD]
Here we now see the results of 2 economic downturns. The risk for LMBF0 has gone up but it is still half of that of the S Fund and slightly more than half of the C Fund. More importantly it is producing greater returns than either C or S. Including the 2nd economic downturn shows us how well LMBF0 works at stemming losses. It is what is giving us superior results. Still don't believe me? Check out the F & C Funds. That's right, F is the winner. F doesn't produce the great annual returns we see in C but it also doesn't have those massive losses. In the end you would have been better off buy-and-holding F all those years instead of C. We saw the same thing last year for the years 2004 - 2012. Gains are great, but losses are deadly. Remember that the next time LMBF0 has a dog of a year like it did in 1992.

Speaking of 1992, let's go all the way back to 1988 and see what we get over 26 years.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]26 Year (1988 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.30%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.92%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.10%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.87%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.93%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.80%[/TD]
Not bad, I'd like 10 - 11% a year over all that time. Looks like you get it from both LMBF0 and the C Fund, but LMBF0 does it with a lot less risk. That's what comes from following a trend.

Finally, let's cut out those 2 economic downturns and look at the data around the dot-com boom.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]12 Year (1988 - 99)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.29%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.37%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.08%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.08%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.88%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.22%[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]10 Year (1990 - 99)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF0[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.99%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.18%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.83%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: left"]Standard Deviation[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.92%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.23%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.69%[/TD]
Wow, now that was the time to buy-and-hold the C Fund. LMBF0 had no advantage over the C Fund during this boom time. It produced inferior returns and gave no real advantage in containing risk. I think this shows that our initial premise was correct. The LMBF family of methods works primarily to reduce losses, not magnify gains. There are years where it wins over all the TSP Funds (1996, 1998, 2007, 2011, 2012), but its primary strength is in stemming losses in down years.

So, if you are certain we are going to have another decade like the 90s, from here, you will want to buy-and-hold equities. On the other hand, if you are concerned we are going to have a correction/downturn/crash in the next year or two or five you may want to look into something, like this, that lessens your losses if/when that happens.
 
Yes, Userque, you can't simply add up your returns to total them or average them because your balance is different for each one and leads to erroneous results. You aren't figuring your subsequent gains/losses from your previous gains/losses. The classic example is losing 50% one year and earning 50% the next does not get you back to where you were. That is why you need to compute stuff like annualized returns instead of simple means. That's explained here: http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/ta-tools/18517-introduction-measuring-risk-tsp-funds-2.html#post428667. Post #2 is probably what you want.

If this is not what you are referring to, feel free to give another example. I'm no finance person and we don't want people led astray. :)

Exactly! Thanks for the postings and civil response!:) Some believe (or want others to believe?) that what you've shown here, is not possible to do:blink:. However, these posts aren't the ones I saw that caused me to initially have concerns.

I'm tied up right now, but I'll find those posts shortly tonight and quote them.
 
This is the Alternate LMBF methods thread so how about some more alternates?

ILoveTDs described his seasonal variation here http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/longer-te...s-best-fund-method-strategy-3.html#post388869 where you follow LMBF for half the year and invest in the F Fund from May through October. That would be easy to test with LMBF-1 as all you have to do is substitute the F Fund monthly returns for those months.

Speaking of substitution, it was discused here http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/longer-term-fund-strategies/15018-alternate-lmbf-methods.html#post396828 that we seldom see consecutive months where C is the Best Fund and that S is the most common Fund to follow C. So why not go straight to the S Fund and skip C altogether. We can test that with LMBF-1 by substituting the monthly returns for S when ever C is chosen.

There appears to be some interest in avoiding equities during the traditionally weaker months of the year and in favoring the S Fund over C, so I will crunch the numbers for the years 2004 - 2012 like I did before and see what we get. For simplicity I'll call the seasonal variation SIM (Sell in May) and lets label the other one 'C->S'. Just for fun I'll also try combining them. Here are the numbers:

[TABLE="width: 311"]
[TR]
[TD]Year[/TD]
[TD]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD]SIM[/TD]
[TD]C -> S[/TD]
[TD]SIM & C->S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.51%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"](3.66%)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.03%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.83%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.07%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.95%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.45%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD="align: right"](10.15%)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"](9.52%)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"](9.52%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.05%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.67%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.17%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.96%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.53%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.95%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.77%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]163.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]176.73%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]218.20%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]184.62%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It looks like the seasonal variation did improve returns overall (177% vs. 164%). It was also more volatile having years with smaller returns and even a negative return in a year where LMBF-1 was positive.

Now C->S looks more interesting. It matches or beats LMBF-1 every year and significantly improves the return. A 218% return for these years is the best we've seen yet. Do we have something here, or am I just fooling myself? You tell me. It looks to me like something worth persuing or maybe even using in your own system.

As for the combination of both alternates, I'll leave that for you to consider. It looks better than SIM alone, but not C->S so why bother.

Cactus,

I found this one and stopped searching further. It appears cumulative percentages, rather than an overall percentage gain/loss are being used to rank systems.
 
Last edited:
Yes, Userque, the Total does represent the cumulative return over the 9 years indicated. That is the way I found multiyear results presented when I came to this site and I think is what most people here understand a total to be. I gather you are concerned that people will mistake this as a one year return which of course would be an incorrect understanding. That result is over 9 years. I figured the size of the return would be enough for people to realize this. That could be a foolish assumption on my part. I may need to label the results better or present it differently.

By overall percentage I assume you mean an annualized return, though I could be mistaken there as well. I do find annualized returns to be more appropriate as a metric but am afraid would confuse some people when placed at the bottom of a list like this, maybe not. I think the larger values of the cumulative returns make the differences more apparent. But then maybe that itself is misleading.

I'm not the best of communicators, and throwing around terms like this doesn't help many people so I thought it best if I describe it with an example. I know this will be a painful oversimplification to many of you, but I've gotten several comments by people saying I'm speaking over their head so please bear with me. The whole point is to understand after all.

Table 1 below shows that we invested $100 (initial balance) in each of the 4 methods indicated. They were invested for 9 years (2004 - 2012) and no further contributions were made. Once a year the indicated percentage is added to the current balance.

Table 1
[TABLE="width: 315"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]LMBF-1
[/TD]
[TD]SIM
[/TD]
[TD]C -> S
[/TD]
[TD]SIM & C->S
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Initial Balance
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$100
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$100
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$100
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$100
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004
[/TD]
[TD]14.50%
[/TD]
[TD]16.51%
[/TD]
[TD]15.47%
[/TD]
[TD]16.51%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005
[/TD]
[TD]5.68%
[/TD]
[TD]-3.66%
[/TD]
[TD]5.68%
[/TD]
[TD]5.68%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006
[/TD]
[TD]17.85%
[/TD]
[TD]21.03%
[/TD]
[TD]22.83%
[/TD]
[TD]24.07%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2007
[/TD]
[TD]10.51%
[/TD]
[TD]3.95%
[/TD]
[TD]11.45%
[/TD]
[TD]11.45%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2008
[/TD]
[TD]-10.15%
[/TD]
[TD]1.22%
[/TD]
[TD]-9.52%
[/TD]
[TD]-9.52%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2009
[/TD]
[TD]18.05%
[/TD]
[TD]10.67%
[/TD]
[TD]28.17%
[/TD]
[TD]18.96%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2010
[/TD]
[TD]17.35%
[/TD]
[TD]28.53%
[/TD]
[TD]17.35%
[/TD]
[TD]17.35%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2011
[/TD]
[TD]8.69%
[/TD]
[TD]14.95%
[/TD]
[TD]8.69%
[/TD]
[TD]8.69%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2012
[/TD]
[TD]23.60%
[/TD]
[TD]18.40%
[/TD]
[TD]28.78%
[/TD]
[TD]21.77%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Final Balance
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$263.51
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$276.73
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$318.20
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$284.62
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Final - Initial
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$163.51
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$176.73
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$218.20
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]$184.62
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gain
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]163.51%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]176.73%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]218.20%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]184.62%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.37%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.97%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.73%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.32%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The Final Balance shows how much money we have in each account after year 9 (2012). When we subtract our initial balance from this amount we get our earnings over the 9 years. To figure the Gain as a percentage we divide our earnings by the initial balance and multiply by 100. This is what I originally called the Total. I hope that helps and didn't throw too many new terms at you.

The Annualized Return is a little more complicated to compute and is described here: http://www.tsptalk.com/mb/ta-tools/18517-introduction-measuring-risk-tsp-funds-2.html#post428667. Post #2 is what you want. The annualized return is called CAGR (Compound Annual Growth Rate) in that example.

One thing you want to understand about the Annualized Return is you can take that value and substitute it for all 9 years and get the same Final Balance as when we used the actual annual return rates. If not, you or I did something wrong somewhere.

Another thing to notice is in the context of comparing the relative performance of these 4 methods you get the same ranking whether you use the Cumulative Total or the Annualized Return.
 
Analyzing LMBF0 (Part 2)

The 2 tables below use LMBF0 to extend our back-testing to the last 13 & 14 years. I chose 13 years to include all the S & I Fund data available. I also chose 14 years to include year 2000 so we would include all of the dot-com bust. Let's see how we fared.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]13 Year (2001 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]G
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]F
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]S
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]I
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]LMBF0
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.72%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.34%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.66%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.45%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.59%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.04%
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Standard Deviation
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.23%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.89%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.42%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.72%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.57%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.64%
[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]14 Year (2000 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]G
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]F
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]LMBF0
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.91%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.78%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.61%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.69%
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Standard Deviation
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.37%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.22%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.16%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.14%
[/TD]
Here we now see the results of 2 economic downturns. The risk for LMBF0 has gone up but it is still half of that of the S Fund and slightly more than half of the C Fund. More importantly it is producing greater returns than either C or S. Including the 2nd economic downturn shows us how well LMBF0 works at stemming losses. It is what is giving us superior results. Still don't believe me? Check out the F & C Funds. That's right, F is the winner. F doesn't produce the great annual returns we see in C but it also doesn't have those massive losses. In the end you would have been better off buy-and-holding F all those years instead of C. We saw the same thing last year for the years 2004 - 2012. Gains are great, but losses are deadly. Remember that the next time LMBF0 has a dog of a year like it did in 1992.

Speaking of 1992, let's go all the way back to 1988 and see what we get over 26 years.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]26 Year (1988 - 13)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]G
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]F
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]LMBF0
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.46%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.66%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.30%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.92%
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Standard Deviation
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.10%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4.87%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.93%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.80%
[/TD]
Not bad, I'd like 10 - 11% a year over all that time. Looks like you get it from both LMBF0 and the C Fund, but LMBF0 does it with a lot less risk. That's what comes from following a trend.

Finally, let's cut out those 2 economic downturns and look at the data around the dot-com boom.


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]12 Year (1988 - 99)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]G
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]F
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]LMBF0
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.29%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.70%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.66%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.37%
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Standard Deviation
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.08%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.08%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.88%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.22%
[/TD]


[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]10 Year (1990 - 99)
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]G
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]F
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]C
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696"]LMBF0
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Annualized Return
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.99%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.51%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.18%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.83%
[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #c0c0c0, align: left"]Standard Deviation
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.92%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.23%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.40%
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.69%
[/TD]
Wow, now that was the time to buy-and-hold the C Fund. LMBF0 had no advantage over the C Fund during this boom time. It produced inferior returns and gave no real advantage in containing risk. I think this shows that our initial premise was correct. The LMBF family of methods works primarily to reduce losses, not magnify gains. There are years where it wins over all the TSP Funds (1996, 1998, 2007, 2011, 2012), but its primary strength is in stemming losses in down years.

So, if you are certain we are going to have another decade like the 90s, from here, you will want to buy-and-hold equities. On the other hand, if you are concerned we are going to have a correction/downturn/crash in the next year or two or five you may want to look into something, like this, that lessens your losses if/when that happens.

Hey Cactus, incredible info. Sounding like a broken record, but thank you so much for providing this to the community.

So it seems if you have that kind of long-term horizon, you could go with equities, but as you clearly show and state, the risk is higher with a shorter time horizon. My takeaway is that if you are within 10-12 years of retirement, as I am (or hope to be!), the low risk level makes one of the LMBF choices a great option.

Now that being said, why aren't you and I religiously following this system?!?!? :toung: All last year I thought the markets were overbought, too high, a correction is coming, and the markets steamrolled me. I thought I could "out-think" the system and the market, and make better entry points. Nope. It beat me even with the whipsaw months.

So, if not now, when??

Once again, thanks, I really appreciate it.
 
So it seems if you have that kind of long-term horizon, you could go with equities, but as you clearly show and state, the risk is higher with a shorter time horizon. My takeaway is that if you are within 10-12 years of retirement, as I am (or hope to be!), the low risk level makes one of the LMBF choices a great option.

Now that being said, why aren't you and I religiously following this system?!?!? :toung: All last year I thought the markets were overbought, too high, a correction is coming, and the markets steamrolled me. I thought I could "out-think" the system and the market, and make better entry points. Nope. It beat me even with the whipsaw months.

So, if not now, when??
This (Post #136) is a great post and I think should be linked to when ever we see someone not following their own system. We see a lot of that posted around the forum. Unfortunately, it usually goes something like: I would have done better if I had stuck to my system. :(

To answer you question, Jonfresno, the truth is because I'm stupid and think I can second guess the system. That is down in print. Look at my monthly posts for 2013 on this thread, especially the ones where Hallatauer responded and said: "you can't second guess a mechanical system or it won't work. you either follow it or you don't". He's a smart man. listen to him.

Some people will look at a bunch of systems and make decisions based on the relative position of some majority of them. I'm not sure that works. You are not going to get the results of LMBF from only following it on certain days in certain months. The differences between LMBF & LMBF-1 point out how big a difference 1 day makes.

I can't speak for anyone else but as for me I think more decisions are based on changing gut instinct than TA or following some trend or system. I say changing because for me it does change every time I read all these wonderful posts on the forum. That means I'm not consistent and probably more emotional with my trades. And we all know that the number 1 tool the market uses against you is your emotions.

If not now, when? Good question. Now would be good for me because I'm too busy to pay attention to what's going on and likely to get busier soon. Excuse: I'm currently being held prisoner by the belief that we have a correction coming this Summer. Some folks thought that all last year and missed the year it was hard too lose. Looks like I have some more losses coming. :rolleyes:
 
This (Post #136) is a great post and I think should be linked to when ever we see someone not following their own system. We see a lot of that posted around the forum. Unfortunately, it usually goes something like: I would have done better if I had stuck to my system. :(

To answer you question, Jonfresno, the truth is because I'm stupid and think I can second guess the system. That is down in print. Look at my monthly posts for 2013 on this thread, especially the ones where Hallatauer responded and said: "you can't second guess a mechanical system or it won't work. you either follow it or you don't". He's a smart man. listen to him.

Some people will look at a bunch of systems and make decisions based on the relative position of some majority of them. I'm not sure that works. You are not going to get the results of LMBF from only following it on certain days in certain months. The differences between LMBF & LMBF-1 point out how big a difference 1 day makes.

I can't speak for anyone else but as for me I think more decisions are based on changing gut instinct than TA or following some trend or system. I say changing because for me it does change every time I read all these wonderful posts on the forum. That means I'm not consistent and probably more emotional with my trades. And we all know that the number 1 tool the market uses against you is your emotions.

If not now, when? Good question. Now would be good for me because I'm too busy to pay attention to what's going on and likely to get busier soon. Excuse: I'm currently being held prisoner by the belief that we have a correction coming this Summer. Some folks thought that all last year and missed the year it was hard too lose. Looks like I have some more losses coming. :rolleyes:

Great self-analysis. I'm guilty of waiting for the correction as well. I'm no theater buff, but it's beginning to remond me of a play my wife took me to many years ago, I think it was called Waiting for Ganot (or Godot). The chap, like the correction, never came...

The only "system" I'm quite good at is buying high and selling low. Works every time.

I think it's tough at times to let a system "play out" when you're a bit older and have accumulated a decent balance in the account. The smallest dip wipes out a pretty large chunk of change. I remember James, gatekeeper of the original LMBF, freaking out last year when the markets went on a huge tear, and he got out. I felt the same way, and it's truly gutwrenching.

I'll get into the system after the correction - I swear this time!!
 
Jonfresno had an interesting idea: have the G Fund be an indicator for the F Fund so whenever LMBF is G we go to F. I must say I've been burned too many times by heading to F for safety, but what do the numbers say? Here they are in the tables below.

Table 1: LMBF-1
LMBF-1.jpg

Table 2: LMBF-1 G -> F
G2F.jpg
Note: The olive gray blocks indicate months where the F Fund was substituted in.

Well, comparing the 2 tables we see that there are substitutions in 8 out of the 10 years and in all but 1 of those 8 the result was superior to LMBF-1 alone. The increase wasn't great, as can be seen in table 3 below, but you can combine G->F with C->S or CI->S for better results if you want to. It's not like those methods are mutually exclusive.

Table 3: Total returns for 2004 - 2013

[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]Year[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]LMBF-1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]C -> S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]CI -> S[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]SIM[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]G -> F[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.00%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]15.47%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.49%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.38%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5.68%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.91%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (3.66%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6.75%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7.07%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.83%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.46%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.03%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.59%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.97%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.51%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.45%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.11%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3.95%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.85%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (11.06%)
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (10.15%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (9.52%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (7.64%) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] (9.43%) [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.66%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.05%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.17%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]38.86%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10.67%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.67%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.85%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.38%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.53%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17.35%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.22%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8.69%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.95%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11.12%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.27%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.60%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.78%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24.56%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.40%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.60%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #C0C0C0, align: right"]2013[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9.21%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]12.26%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.50%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]22.70%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14.31%[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13.10%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]10 Year Gain[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]121.15%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]195.82%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]261.16%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]280.92%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]216.32%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: center"]212.03%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]Annualized Return[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]8.26%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]11.46%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]13.70%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]14.31%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]12.21%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]12.05%[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: left"]RISK[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]7.74%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]8.85%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]10.80%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]12.15%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]9.24%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #969696, align: right"]8.61%[/TD]

I think I will add G -> F to the Monthly Returns when I post them and see how it behaves this year.
 
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